Possible to play vintage wihout P9?

[peeweemagic]

I have been looking around and everyone seems to have p9 in their decks. i played a long time ago but i quit. now i am back but i cant afford the price tag of p9 other than timetwister but i just miss the old days so much i am quite reluctant to leave vintage because of all the past memories. ok i am playing landstill because it is one of the cheaper decks i could afford. are they any substitutes for p9? just wondering what are the cards i can add that can well at least make my deck competitive. to have some fun. without losing so badly but at least survive for some time, like maybe 6 rounds? I posted my deck in an earlier post, if you guys dont mind give me your thoughts. i fear that the admin might just close my thread again.i have been out of magic for so long i really need some advice.Maybe you guys could help me along, will be really grateful. i have the basic cards other than ancestral recalll, time walk, mox sapphire and lotus. are there any good cards i can use in a basic red /blue landstill deck? And probably you guys could let me know through email or something. it doesnt hurt to make a few frens. ^^ peeweemagic@live.com. Please dont lock this thread i am trying very hard to make this post as meaningful as possible. Feel free to discuss landstill strategies with me. i would really be glad. because i am quite rusty.
heres my decklist. i basically try to counter mean cards and kill my opponent with man lands i think they call mishras factory.pardon me if i used the wrong term.

UPDATED LIST

4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's factory
4 Faerie conclave
1 Strip mineStrip mine
1 Library of alexandria
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island


4 Force of will
4 Mana Drain
4 Stifle
2 Misdirection
3 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Null rod
1 Crucible of worlds
4 chalice of the void
1 Chain of vapor
4 x Fire //Ice

thinking of adding mystic renoma but i am not sure if it works yet to see anyone using it. thanks. Should I take out Fire//ice or Chain of vapor?

[Stormanimagus]

I have been looking around and everyone seems to have p9 in their decks. i played a long time ago but i quit. now i am back but i cant afford the price tag of p9 other than timetwister but i just miss the old days so much i am quite reluctant to leave vintage because of all the past memories. ok i am playing landstill because it is one of the cheaper decks i could afford. are they any substitutes for p9? just wondering what are the cards i can add that can well at least make my deck competitive. to have some fun. without losing so badly but at least survive for some time, like maybe 6 rounds? I posted my deck in an earlier post, if you guys dont mind give me your thoughts. i fear that the admin might just close my thread again.i have been out of magic for so long i really need some advice.Maybe you guys could help me along, will be really grateful. i have the basic cards other than ancestral recalll, time walk, mox sapphire and lotus. are there any good cards i can use in a basic black /blue landstill deck? And probably you guys could let me know through email or something. it doesnt hurt to make a few frens. ^^ peeweemagic@live.com. Please dont lock this thread i am trying very hard to make this post as meaningful as possible. Feel free to discuss landstill strategies with me. i would really be glad. because i am quite rusty.
heres my decklist. i basically try to counter mean cards and kill my opponent with man lands i think they call mishras factory.pardon me if i used the wrong term.


4 Underground sea
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's factory
4 Faerie conclave
1 Strip mineStrip mine
1 Library of alexandria
6 Island


4 Force of will
4 Mana Drain
2 Stifle
2 Misdirection
1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
3 Daze
1 Mystical tutor
4 Standstill
1 Brainstorm
2 Null rod
2 Crucible of worlds
1 Sol ring
4 chalice of the void
3 Chain of vapor


thinking of adding mystic renoma but i am not sure if it works yet to see anyone using it. thanks

Hey. I'm glad some older players are interested in coming back to Vintage. Welcome back! .

Anyway, my first suggestion would be to cut Black for Red. Running black for Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor just isn't worth it in landstill.

Red gives you access to Fire/Ice, Rack And Ruin and other awesomeness like Red Elemental Blast (which is a great card in a Tezzeret Control infested Meta)

Btw, YES, this deck can easily be played sans Power 9 and really doesn't lose a whole lot. I'd just make sure to run the full compliment of Null Rods to make sure you have a consistent answer to moxen/lotus.

Your list isn't bad, but I'd cut a Crucible and some other stuff to make sure you have 4x Stifle and 4x Null Rod. That alone will make your Dazes more powerful. I'm not 100% convinced that Daze is a good card for this deck but it seems like a decent choice.

Those are my comments for now.

Peace,

Storm

[peeweemagic]

Hey. I'm glad some older players are interested in coming back to Vintage. Welcome back! .

Anyway, my first suggestion would be to cut Black for Red. Running black for Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor just isn't worth it in landstill.

Red gives you access to Fire/Ice, Rack And Ruin and other awesomeness like Red Elemental Blast (which is a great card in a Tezzeret Control infested Meta)

Btw, YES, this deck can easily be played sans Power 9 and really doesn't lose a whole lot. I'd just make sure to run the full compliment of Null Rods to make sure you have a consistent answer to moxen/lotus.

Your list isn't bad, but I'd cut a Crucible and some other stuff to make sure you have 4x Stifle and 4x Null Rod. That alone will make your Dazes more powerful. I'm not 100% convinced that Daze is a good card for this deck but it seems like a decent choice.

Those are my comments for now.

Peace,

Storm

thanks storm  for welcoming me back ^^, I will see what i can do maybe i will remove the tutors and add ice/fire and change it to blue red instead. And i will accomodate 2 more null rods and add 2 more stifles. and that means i need to go shopping for cards. do you know where i can get cards at reasonabble prices?  other than ebay? is my strtegy correct for landstill. counter the mean cards and kill with lands? some1 commented that it was too slow. they told me i might not last. given that most decks have p9 and can easily kill in turn 1 =(

heres my new list

4 volcanic island
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's factory
4 Faerie conclave
1 Strip mineStrip mine
1 Library of alexandria
6 Island


4 Force of will
4 Mana Drain
2 Stifle
2 Misdirection
3 Daze
1 Mystical tutor
4 Standstill
1 Brainstorm
4 Null rod
2 Crucible of worlds
1 Sol ring
4 chalice of the void
3 Chain of vapor


storm do you think i can play red/blue/black?
 by adding 2 volcanic islands and taking out 2 underground seas?

[meadbert]

3 Colors may not be the right direction, but if you try it then the trick will be to run Flooded Strand and Polluted Delta.

If you run a combined 5 Fetch lands and then 4 Island, 2 Volcanic Islands and 2 Underground Seas then you can fairly regularly have access to Red and Black.

Also, Fetch lands can be replayed with Crucible of Worlds.

With 0 Moxen or Lotus and with Rods and Crucibles and I wonder if Ancient Tomb would make sense.  A few of those could help turn out turn 1 Null Rod or turn 2 Crucible of Worlds.

[Diakonov]

Seeing four Faerie Conclaves gives me some feelings of nostalgia, I can see you've definitely played Vintage in the past.

My opinion is that the Conclaves are just a little bit slow for today's Vintage environments.  You might try adding a few Mutavaults in their place if you want a high number of manlands.  As meadbert said, fetches like Polluted Delta are very important as well.

You might find yourself having some trouble with this type of deck right now, even if you are playing with P9 and not making any errors in games.  I would have to agree with those who have said this might be too slow of a strategy to use right now.  I don't want to completely discourage from it if you enjoy using it, and you will certainly gain your share of victories, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't find yourself winning tournaments with a Landstill styled deck.

Most people who are playing with P9 are actually using proxies, and don't actually own the cards; is that something that bothers you?  If you haven't played Vintage in a while that might sound like a ridiculous concept, but it has become the norm to play with a small number of "fake" cards.

For purchasing cards you can check out www.cardshark.com, or www.findmagiccards.com.  They usually aren't quite as good as Ebay prices, but less of a hassle.

[Stormanimagus]

Seeing four Faerie Conclaves gives me some feelings of nostalgia, I can see you've definitely played Vintage in the past.

My opinion is that the Conclaves are just a little bit slow for today's Vintage environments.  You might try adding a few Mutavaults in their place if you want a high number of manlands.  As meadbert said, fetches like Polluted Delta are very important as well.

You might find yourself having some trouble with this type of deck right now, even if you are playing with P9 and not making any errors in games.  I would have to agree with those who have said this might be too slow of a strategy to use right now.  I don't want to completely discourage from it if you enjoy using it, and you will certainly gain your share of victories, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't find yourself winning tournaments with a Landstill styled deck.

Most people who are playing with P9 are actually using proxies, and don't actually own the cards; is that something that bothers you?  If you haven't played Vintage in a while that might sound like a ridiculous concept, but it has become the norm to play with a small number of "fake" cards.

For purchasing cards you can check out www.cardshark.com, or www.findmagiccards.com.  They usually aren't quite as good as Ebay prices, but less of a hassle.

Yeah, I actually played UR Landstill at the last TMD open that I attended and earned 2 draws in the first 4 rounds. Decks that stall like this one can get a lot of draws in a Tezzeret infested environment. It also just takes a lot of experience/playskill with a slow deck to not tie in general. That's the reason I've abandoned decks with slow clocks. I don't tend to play them well.

[God_Campbell]

First off, welcome back to the game!

If your interested in purchasing cards, Starcitygames.com, who actually owns purchased themanadrain.com a while ago has a great selection and the prices are decent.

Anyways, as someone who plays against landstill as I actually play in the area where it was created, I would suggest using Rich Mattiuzzo's list from 2007 as refereance, and the funny thing is that it has not really changed since then.

Main Deck

60 cards
3  Faerie Conclave
2  Flooded Strand
2  Island
1  Library of Alexandria
4  Mishra's Factory
2  Polluted Delta
2  Steam Vents
1  Strip Mine
4  Volcanic Island
4  Wasteland
25 lands

1  Ancestral Recall
1  Black Lotus
3  Chain of Vapor
1  Crucible of Worlds
4  Fire // Ice
4  Force of Will
4  Mana Drain
3  Misdirection
1  Mox Sapphire
4  Null Rod
4  Standstill
4  Stifle
1  Time Walk
35 other spells
   

Sideboard

4  Chalice of the Void
2  Pyroblast
3  Rack and Ruin
3  Red Elemental Blast
3  Threads of Disloyalty
15 sideboard cards


Now if your feeling like your playing at a snails pace, it means your playing the deck right, the deck has the tools to get to the long game, where it's card advantage from standstill mixed with manland beats is awesome, and you will be able to ride that to victory.

Now I defiantly suggest your list play no less then 4 Null rod maindeck, as right now it is one of the most powerful weapons vs the time vault/voltaic key interaction.

[Eastman]

This is a good topic, but certainly belongs in the Vintage Improvement forum.  Thanks for reposting and welcome back to Vintage! -Eastman

[peeweemagic]

Seeing four Faerie Conclaves gives me some feelings of nostalgia, I can see you've definitely played Vintage in the past.

My opinion is that the Conclaves are just a little bit slow for today's Vintage environments.  You might try adding a few Mutavaults in their place if you want a high number of manlands.  As meadbert said, fetches like Polluted Delta are very important as well.

You might find yourself having some trouble with this type of deck right now, even if you are playing with P9 and not making any errors in games.  I would have to agree with those who have said this might be too slow of a strategy to use right now.  I don't want to completely discourage from it if you enjoy using it, and you will certainly gain your share of victories, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't find yourself winning tournaments with a Landstill styled deck.

Most people who are playing with P9 are actually using proxies, and don't actually own the cards; is that something that bothers you?  If you haven't played Vintage in a while that might sound like a ridiculous concept, but it has become the norm to play with a small number of "fake" cards.

For purchasing cards you can check out www.cardshark.com, or www.findmagiccards.com.  They usually aren't quite as good as Ebay prices, but less of a hassle.

Dear fellow vintage player, But mutavaults add 1 colorless mana i think? Or am i wrong? But i will proxy them and see how it works ! I am sure it will be an improvement i will try to take out something and add mutavault maybe 2 faerie conclaves for 2 mutavaults ^^

[peeweemagic]

3 Colors may not be the right direction, but if you try it then the trick will be to run Flooded Strand and Polluted Delta.

If you run a combined 5 Fetch lands and then 4 Island, 2 Volcanic Islands and 2 Underground Seas then you can fairly regularly have access to Red and Black.

Also, Fetch lands can be replayed with Crucible of Worlds.

With 0 Moxen or Lotus and with Rods and Crucibles and I wonder if Ancient Tomb would make sense.  A few of those could help turn out turn 1 Null Rod or turn 2 Crucible of Worlds.

Thanks! I will go check out the prices of fetch lands? , I had that intention to include a few. Maybe 4 i guess! Because many ppl have advised me to drop black for red. So i am currently working on it ^^

[peeweemagic]

Seeing four Faerie Conclaves gives me some feelings of nostalgia, I can see you've definitely played Vintage in the past.

My opinion is that the Conclaves are just a little bit slow for today's Vintage environments.  You might try adding a few Mutavaults in their place if you want a high number of manlands.  As meadbert said, fetches like Polluted Delta are very important as well.

You might find yourself having some trouble with this type of deck right now, even if you are playing with P9 and not making any errors in games.  I would have to agree with those who have said this might be too slow of a strategy to use right now.  I don't want to completely discourage from it if you enjoy using it, and you will certainly gain your share of victories, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't find yourself winning tournaments with a Landstill styled deck.

Most people who are playing with P9 are actually using proxies, and don't actually own the cards; is that something that bothers you?  If you haven't played Vintage in a while that might sound like a ridiculous concept, but it has become the norm to play with a small number of "fake" cards.

For purchasing cards you can check out www.cardshark.com, or www.findmagiccards.com.  They usually aren't quite as good as Ebay prices, but less of a hassle.

You mean it is now legal to use proxies in tournaments? u mean they use the cards from collector's edition those that look beta with sharp edges? 

[peeweemagic]

First off, welcome back to the game!

If your interested in purchasing cards, Starcitygames.com, who actually owns purchased themanadrain.com a while ago has a great selection and the prices are decent.

Anyways, as someone who plays against landstill as I actually play in the area where it was created, I would suggest using Rich Mattiuzzo's list from 2007 as refereance, and the funny thing is that it has not really changed since then.

Main Deck

60 cards
3  Faerie Conclave
2  Flooded Strand
2  Island
1  Library of Alexandria
4  Mishra's Factory
2  Polluted Delta
2  Steam Vents
1  Strip Mine
4  Volcanic Island
4  Wasteland
25 lands

1  Ancestral Recall
1  Black Lotus
3  Chain of Vapor
1  Crucible of Worlds
4  Fire // Ice
4  Force of Will
4  Mana Drain
3  Misdirection
1  Mox Sapphire
4  Null Rod
4  Standstill
4  Stifle
1  Time Walk
35 other spells
   

Sideboard

4  Chalice of the Void
2  Pyroblast
3  Rack and Ruin
3  Red Elemental Blast
3  Threads of Disloyalty
15 sideboard cards


Now if your feeling like your playing at a snails pace, it means your playing the deck right, the deck has the tools to get to the long game, where it's card advantage from standstill mixed with manland beats is awesome, and you will be able to ride that to victory.

Now I defiantly suggest your list play no less then 4 Null rod maindeck, as right now it is one of the most powerful weapons vs the time vault/voltaic key interaction.

Thanks god campell I will certainly visit your store hopefully i can find some cards I need ^^ do you charge alot for shipping?

[vassago]

Before I go into certain deck choices, please review the following links for obtaining cards:

http://www.magictraders.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/071474.html

www.strikezoneonline.com

These are the best deals you can get from reliable sources. Both are competitively priced for those looking to save a few bucks.

For the kind of deck you are looking to play, please review this link for the 1 fish 2 fish Red fish Blue fish list played by AJ Grassco.  I think it may be something you would like.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37350.0

Also, on a side note, you should edit your posts to contain your newer material instead of multiple postings.  The mods will most likely mention it, and no one wants to incur their wrath. =oD   I would actually take the time to read the forum rules, as it will make posting much easier in the future. 

[God_Campbell]

Thanks god campell I will certainly visit your store hopefully i can find some cards I need ^^ do you charge alot for shipping?

It's actually not my store, it is owned by a few individuals, who actually purchased this website for us to continue to have quality posts on this awesome format.

I also suggest using the edit feature, so you are not posting multiple times.

[peeweemagic]

^^ THX

[peeweemagic]

I  just updated my list What do you guys think? storm? everyone?

[AshThaReaper804]

The best substitute for power nine is a good kill condition

[The Atog Lord]

You don't get to call your thread "** JUST UPDATED PLS READ ^^**". Verbal warning for spam. Fix this name soon or this thread is gone.

Rich

[peeweemagic]

You don't get to call your thread "** JUST UPDATED PLS READ ^^**". Verbal warning for spam. Fix this name soon or this thread is gone.

Rich

Changed back.. someone drop me a comment. What do you mean by kill factor? Because i was told i had too many null rods and stifle. Hope someone replies.

[honestabe]

Most tournaments let you use proxies, so no worries on having to buy the P9

[tater]

Just a note, Manaless Ichorid runs no P9 in it and costs a bit less than $1000 USD for the whole deck.

[ErkBek]

You should give Vendilion Clique a try in here.

[Thisson]

$1000 for a deck is ridiculous.  Sorry.  And I have a 6+ figure income.  People wonder why the format is dying?

Wizards needs to reprint.

/end rant.