Reanimator

[oneofchaos]

I told my friend I thought the archetype was bad, but he did not want to hear it.  I want to know how (if possible) you can make this deck better.

Mana:
5 Swamp
7 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
________________
Beats:
1 Sundering titan
2 Kokusho
1 angel of despair
1 akroma
1 blazing archon
________________
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Buried Alive
4 Careful Study
3 Putrid Imp
4 Duress/Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rushing river
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor

I thought it needed to be shaved down to 60, possibly add in will?  I just didn't even know how to help him, therefore I'm turning to you guys!

[the boogie man]

I personally think that Unearth is a really solid card. it cycles when its useless, but it can't target your oponenets creatures. The only reason that I bring this up is because I think that a traditional reanimator list is too reliant on the graveyard. A list that I like looks a little bit like dawn of the dead, but with bigger beaters, maybe something like this:

3 unearth
4 tarmogoyf
4 terravore
4 eternal witness
2 reanimate

4 bazaar
3 bayou
3 waste
1 strip

4 null rod
3 thoughtseize
2 lftl
1 raven's crime

and you could fill out the rest with what you like, I believe there is even room for another color. Goyfs and terravores are huge, and unearth cycles when you don't need it. Thoughtseize serves another purpose, where you can discard one of there creature and reanimate it. You can also play the creatures from your hand, which is why I think this deck has a slight edge on a more stereotypical list, where when faced with yard hate, the threats just continue from the hand. And terravore gets really, really big.

edit: forgot eternal witness. with 1 unearth, you could animate as many as you had in the graveyard, then another target for 8 + whatever you animate. Eternal witness obviously has other uses as well.

[Phoenix888]

To me, Ichorid is the new reanimator.  Dread return brings out the fatty, but there's alternate paths to victory, which most reanimator decks lack.

[nineisnoone]

Well for one Intuition is probably strictly better than Buried Alive.

You could also go for Thirst for Knowledge and use a lot of robots.  If I ever start working on my Necro-Slaver list again, I'll post it.  But the basic idea was rather than Welding in the Robots you use Necromancy against them.  Sharuum means that you can do a double Necro at sorcery speed or a single Necro at instant speed.  Necromancy also can be useful where there are creatures to steal in Graveyards.  Pretty good against an Inkwell Leviathan that has been discarded by Thirst for Knowledge.

[Random Noob]

I play a Liste in Legacy with 4 Intuition, 2 Buried Alive, 4 Study. And the Kill is in Form of Demigod. Works well most times.

[Guli]

Well Dragon and Ichorid are both established decks with the 'reanimator' theme. They both combo. You need that in vintage. Reanimating tarm is pointless.

[Harlequin]

As others have said, WGD or Cerbral assasin take the "right approach" to this concept.  However if you were going to build UB renaimator, here are some concepts to keep in mind:

- Don't run Buried Alive or Putrid Imp.   If you can't afford to run Bazaar, Blue still has an abundance of draw->discard effects.  Even Attunement (heck even Compulsion) is better than Buried Alive.  In a deck running a high dead-draw count, I most cases you want to trade dead-draws for good cards rather than just dump them into your yard.  Autoinclude: Careful Stude, Frantic Search.  Then pick from Thirst, Compulsive Research, Idea's Unbound, Attunement. 
- Run Force of Will.
- Run Tinker if you have the mox to support it.
- Only run creatures you would run in Oath (and at least 1 or 2 tinkers).  I think 5 creatures is good enough, maybe 6.  But I would go with something like: Akroma, Blazing Archon, Hellkite Overlord x2, Inkwell Leviathon; and add in Sundering Titan or Plats if that's not enough dudes.  If you do get full mox, you could run Tidespout Tyrant as well.

16  Fetches, Seas, Basics
3  Cephalid Collesium
3  Mox2, Lotus
5  ~Dudes
8  Reanimate, Exume
4  Force
4  Careful Study
1  Frantic Search
3  Attunement
3  Lim duls Vault or Mull Drifter
2  recall, timewalk
2  ponder, BS
2  DT, Vamp
1  Yawg
1  Windfall
1  Entomb
1  Echoing Truth

You're going to have a hell of a time agains typical vintage decks.  They on the average you're looking to have your monster in play on turn 3-4 at best.  It will likely take an additional 2-3 turns to win.  That's simply way too slow for vintage.  With full Mox you speed up your clock a little, but the problem is that you have only 4 force for disruption.  If you cut combo cards for duresses you might have more hope, but less consistancy in your combo.

The most comperable deck to this deck is Oath.  Its like you're playing oath, but with 8 Oaths that can only get 1 creature each, and with 5 creatures. 

[oneofchaos]

He is really tight on proxies, I'm not sure how much power/forces he can play.  I suggested intuition over buried alive, but he liked dark ritual into buried alive.  I have cut dark ritual because I thought it wasn't the best.

[Harlequin]

I would never run buried alive.  Its just bad.  there at least a dozen blue cards I would run before Buried Alive.

[oneofchaos]

Another thing is the deck hardcore scoops to chalice at 1/2.  Trying to find a way around that for my friend, therefore our bounce was rushing river.

[chrissss]

If you do use burried alive, I always used bladewing the risen with dragon tyrant and anger. instant 16 damage or more if you have red mana. but like someone mentioned, burried alive is not a good choice for vintage. Its a casual card imo.

[oneofchaos]

// Lands
    4  Polluted Delta
    4  Underground Sea
    3  Swamp
  4  Island
1 tundra

// Creatures
    1  Sundering Titan
    1  Inkwell Leviathan
    2  Sharuum the Hegemon
    1  Blazing Archon

// Spells
    1  Frantic Search
    4  Careful Study
    1  Entomb
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    4  Force of Will
    1  Ponder
    1  Brainstorm
    1  Bridge from Below
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Intuition
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Tinker
    1  Black Lotus
    4  Exhume
    4  Reanimate
    1 [JGC] Sol Ring
1  Balance


I took somebody's suggestion of sharrum x2 and bridge from below.  This yields infinite 2/2 zombie tokens.  Also if sharrum is in the yard with inkwell or titan, you just got two targets for the price of one.  She is also a 5/5 flier, and can often get there on her own.  She also makes the blue count higher for force of will.  I took Jeff's suggestion of making it more tinker based, and as such we have more artifacts and thirst for draw power.  Any suggestions on how to answer chalice tho?

[silvernail]

Engineered Explosives handles Chalice.

[oneofchaos]

Engineered Explosives handles Chalice.

Only if cast off colorless mana, and I have 2 colorless sources in the deck.  Seems suboptimal.

[geckoskin]

Engineered Explosives handles Chalice.

Only if cast off colorless mana, and I have 2 colorless sources in the deck.  Seems suboptimal.

actually, you can just play explosives for 0. It will come into play with no counters, and you can cack the chalice.

[oneofchaos]

well if there isn't a chalice at 0 out.

[the boogie man]

I'd think that chalice at 1-2 would be the biggest threat to this deck, so a chalice at 0 seems like something you could play around. and if they are set at 1-2, then explosives does handle chalice. The only issue is if theres multiple chalices.

[Harlequin]

Yeah if you're that worried about chalice I'd run EE instead of any bounce spell.  Esp now that you have full mox and tundra. 

But that sorta gets back to the issue at hand.  For this deck worrying about double chalice is like worrying about not having enough Hello Kitty band-aids to fix a severed arm.  The problem is th deck itself is going to be strictly slower, less consistant, and easier to disrupt than a similar build of Oath.

[oneofchaos]

Well the last decklist I proposed, how could that be made  better?

[AshThaReaper804]

try impulse

[jaeppel]

this almost feels like cerebral assassin, but missing something.  i think you need to do something a bit more than 'replayfattyandattack'  thats just not a very powerful startegy in the end.  reanimate on big fatty.. it takes two turns to even out the life loss, and i think randomly psiblasting yourself twice is generally a risky move, unless that just wins on the spot.  animate dead is where its at.. this lets you return whatever you want, from any graveyard.  the powerloss is usually trivial.  oh darn, that bob i just stole from the yard is only a 1/1.

i would start with 4 animate, 4 welder, 4 bazaar, 4 huge robots, 4 rod, 4 chalice, possessed portal, entomb, demonic, vampiric, ancestral, walk, 6 duress, darkblast, 3 squee, 3 moxen, lotus, cephaild coloseum, and other mana... just as an outline.  exhume/reanimate are just not that powerful.  neither one can steal you dead goyfs, and neither one is half of an infinite mana combo. 

so thats where the animates are fun, it doesnt take too much to slip into a dragon deck post-board as a solution to outracing faster aggro.  reanimation effects are sweet with the welder as well.. a way to get back a wasted goblin.

either that or ichorid, but i think the archetype here has a long way to go before being 'as good as' the established reanimator decks, namely ichorid, dragon, and stuff using welders with robots.

[Cyberpunker]

How about Hermit Druid/Anger/Narcomoebas/Sutured Ghoul/Dread Return combo? It only takes 1 card to win as opposed to having to discard your creatures then reanimate them. Or you can make it like Ichorid and run the Flamekin Zealot engine.

[nataz]

wait, did we already explain why you aren't running mono-black dragon?


keep the shell, but sub out the kill cards for 4 dragon,some animates, and ona. Add in spoils of the vault for extra fun and excitement. Unmask can be great protection in conjunction with duress and thoughtseize. Add in all the cheap-o artifact accel (cyrpt, vault, etc.,).