fish vs storm, path to exile over swords?

[baz9980]

what do people think of arcane lab - 2 copies in sideboard vs storm? also, what is the key to playing to win against tps/ad storm?
(good starting hands, mulling hands, what are the counter targets) also, what do people think of spell snare in this match?
thank you all,
baz

[Stormanimagus]

what do people think of arcane lab - 2 copies in sideboard vs storm? also, what is the key to playing to win against tps/ad storm?
(good starting hands, mulling hands, what are the counter targets) also, what do people think of spell snare in this match?
thank you all,
baz

3 Words. Children Of Korlis!

[baz9980]

that's freakin' great!

[Phele]

Actually if you are playing white, Ethersworn Canonist ist on of the best weapons against storm. Paired with enought mana denial and counter magic you should have a good shot against storm.

[chrissss]

if you are playing fish, children of korlis, gaddock teeg are way better than arcane lab. they are creatures, have lower cc and stop the most important combo cards.

Whats your decklist?

Either Vial + children is so sick vs tps.

[ErkBek]

if you are playing fish, children of korlis, gaddock teeg are way better than arcane lab. they are creatures, have lower cc and stop the most important combo cards.

Whats your decklist?

Either Vial + children is so sick vs tps.

Children of Korlis is real bad against storm, it's a minor speed bump for storm if at all. Basically storm will Yawg Will combo as normal except instead of grabbing Tendrils they'll get Mind's Desire. It costs them an extra 2 mana all said and done, but doesn't prevent them from going broken.

Cannonist, Rule of Law, Arcane Lab, are all real good. Teeg doesn't do much to stop them from going broken, meanwhile shutting off your own FoW's. Teeg was good back in the days of Gush, idk so much these days.

Cannonist is definitely the best if you're not running Null Rod (since they get swept together by Hurkyl's/Rebuild).

[Joe Indelicato]

Teeg stops ad nauseam and tendrils.

[nineisnoone]

if you are playing fish, children of korlis, gaddock teeg are way better than arcane lab. they are creatures, have lower cc and stop the most important combo cards.

Whats your decklist?

Either Vial + children is so sick vs tps.

Children of Korlis is real bad against storm, it's a minor speed bump for storm if at all. Basically storm will Yawg Will combo as normal except instead of grabbing Tendrils they'll get Mind's Desire. It costs them an extra 2 mana all said and done, but doesn't prevent them from going broken.

Cannonist, Rule of Law, Arcane Lab, are all real good. Teeg doesn't do much to stop them from going broken, meanwhile shutting off your own FoW's. Teeg was good back in the days of Gush, idk so much these days.

Cannonist is definitely the best if you're not running Null Rod (since they get swept together by Hurkyl's/Rebuild).

But don't they still have to win off Tendrils/DSC?

[Implacable]

if you are playing fish, children of korlis, gaddock teeg are way better than arcane lab. they are creatures, have lower cc and stop the most important combo cards.

Whats your decklist?

Either Vial + children is so sick vs tps.

Children of Korlis is real bad against storm, it's a minor speed bump for storm if at all. Basically storm will Yawg Will combo as normal except instead of grabbing Tendrils they'll get Mind's Desire. It costs them an extra 2 mana all said and done, but doesn't prevent them from going broken.

Cannonist, Rule of Law, Arcane Lab, are all real good. Teeg doesn't do much to stop them from going broken, meanwhile shutting off your own FoW's. Teeg was good back in the days of Gush, idk so much these days.

Cannonist is definitely the best if you're not running Null Rod (since they get swept together by Hurkyl's/Rebuild).

But don't they still have to win off Tendrils/DSC?

1) How do Children stop DSC?

2) Becker's saying that they can storm for enough to kill you through Children.

[nineisnoone]

1) How do Children stop DSC?

2) Becker's saying that they can storm for enough to kill you through Children.

It doesn't beat DSC.  I never said it did.

That's fairly obvious, and I'm not dismissing that, I just don't see that as *bad*.  That's like saying Arcane Lab is bad because they can just bounce it.

Like Ichorid, I usually count on needing multiple storm hate pieces to beat the deck. One anything is pretty much nothing against storm.  Two is a hinderance.  Three and it starts going in your favor.  Children goes down turn 1 is un-Duress able and can attack to cut down opposing life total. As a bonus, it removes Bridges in the Ichorid match-up and can be sometimes decent against aggro-based strategies.  Obviously, Children alone isn't going to be enough.  But Children + Ethersworn?  + Mana Denial?  Double Children? The simple dismissal that it will just cost "2 more mana" is a bit of an exaggeration when typically that is one to two more land drops due to Wasteland pressure forcing them onto basics.

I agree that Rule of Law/Arcane Denial are better, but they also cost more and do less in other match-ups.  I'm not sure Ethersworn is all that much better due Recall/Rebuild be standard for combo.  If you really really want to hate combo, then you can go for it.  But as a card in general, I find Children to be fine assuming it's not your sole card against storm.

[Ldpokercj5]

uhmmm.... How many stifles you got MD? add canonists and ur MD Stifles and you should be strong. Also if you have that much trouble with it Trickbind works too....  I honestly think these are the best....

Children of the Korlis wont save you you die than it tries to revive you and it fails too, its bad.


Spell snare... dont run it... not gonna say anything else.

Arcane Lab isnt too bad maybe if you go a 1/1 split with canonist and arcane so they cant hate on u as easily it wouldnt be as bad.

[Stormanimagus]

uhmmm.... How many stifles you got MD? add canonists and ur MD Stifles and you should be strong. Also if you have that much trouble with it Trickbind works too....  I honestly think these are the best....

Children of the Korlis wont save you you die than it tries to revive you and it fails too, its bad.


Spell snare... dont run it... not gonna say anything else.

Arcane Lab isnt too bad maybe if you go a 1/1 split with canonist and arcane so they cant hate on u as easily it wouldnt be as bad.

Children are a lot better than people are saying. If you have one on the board against Storm then they must Storm for 20 instead of 10 to kill you. If you have 2 Children on the board they must storm for 30 + to kill you. Children is also a good Fog if they go for the DSC/Inkwell Plan. Sometimes that Fog can be enough to beat through with Tarmogoyf for the win. I won't argue that it's not a full-proof answer to Storm as they can just go for Storm of 20, but usually that's enough of a speed-bump such that with other mana-denial it'll get the job done. Ethersworn Canonist is solid, but I don't like that that every bounce in the game nabs it.

[nineisnoone]

Children of the Korlis wont save you you die than it tries to revive you and it fails too, its bad.

Unless if I am completely wrong and crazy, you can activate in between storm triggers.

If you have 2 Children on the board they must storm for 30 + to kill you.

Also remember that multiples are exponential in terms of necessary storm count.

For example, if they storm you for 18 life loss, your first Children will get you back 18 life.  If they are trying to do a huge storm to kill you through 2 children, your second Children will still gain you back the first 18 life you lost in addition to the new life loss.  So if they do another 18 life loss, the second one will give you 36 life.  Presuming that you were at 20, they do 18, you Korlis, you are back to 20, they do another 18, you Korlis, you are up to 38, then in total they have to do 84 total on you. Or Storm for 41.

[jamestosetti]

I don't know if it was just the pilots but w/u fish doesn't seem very good against storm and the worst thing you can do to storm is put gaddok teeg on the table with some other lock peice like a meddling mage. There arn't tons of storm  players in the first place and fish is good against tezz and it's decent against storm. I don't know why aven mindscensor isnt all over the place with tezz decks and storm decks.Where white and blue is good against storm is playing stuff like daze or disrupt anything to trip them up. Or playing 2 meddling mages can hold the storm player off. I'd say fishes main concern is tezzeret because you can trip up quite a few storm players I'd say and also ichorid. I'm not real sure what the main goal is there.

[Diakonov]

Mindcensor is a lot more annoying to TPS than Meddling Mage under most circumstances.

-IF- you have time to land Arcane Lab, it is devastating.  As a TPS player, I can't think of much else that's more annoying.

Whichever pieces you decide to use should depend a lot on what else you're using in your build.  Most importantly, I would make sure that you have something to hold them back each turn until you get to a comfortable level of disruption pieces to feel stabilized.  For one mana effects, if you're running black, siding in some Duresses would help tremendously, or you could use Stifle or Children (which aren't quite as good). 

If the TPS player has the ability to storm for 30, they will definitely have gone for Mind's Desire at that point.  They probably wouldn't bother using Tendrils until they've bounced your Children, and many TPS lists run Echoing Truth (which should take care of each of them).  As someone already said, I could see it being a decent speed bump to hold back quick, smaller storms, and it seems good against Ichorid, but I can't picture it being reliable as your main protection.

[EndersGame]

They probably wouldn't bother using Tendrils until they've bounced your Children, and many TPS lists run Echoing Truth (which should take care of each of them)

Or they could just sacrifice the targetted one and leave one out? 

I don't think Children is all that great for just Storm, but it is another card for Ichorid as well.  It just depends on how tight your board is, ie do you need this slot to pull double duty or not.

[Diakonov]

Or they could just sacrifice the targetted one and leave one out? 

Good point.

Well, at least knocking one out saves you from having to build a super ridiculous storm count.

[zeus-online]

If you are worried about storm i'd recommend 4 cannonists, 3 mindcensors, 4 daze and obv. 4 force of will....Aswell as 4 rod and 5 strips.

This way you're stax on legs with counter back-up and a clock. Works well around here

/Zeus