Fast Profusion? Thought?

[jmedina]

I wanted to get everyone’s thoughts on this deck. Basically I have been working on an engine using these cards interaction:

Fastbond
Null Profusion
Reliquary Tower

It’s a draw engine that allows you to draw up your entire deck. Every time you play a card including a land you draw a card off Null Profusion. Once Fastbond is down you can play most anything that you draw. The Reliquary Tower allows you to draw half your deck and keep it in you hand as long as you play it after Null Profusion (Timestamp). I put the engine in a grow/storm shell. It seems to do ok in the games that I’ve tested.

Let me know what you think of the deck and the engine. Thanks!

Disruption
4    Force of Will
2    Mana Drain
4    Thoughtseize
1    Echoing Truth
1    Hurkyl's Recall
1    Pithing Needle

Draw
3    Thoughtcast
1    Gush
1    Time Walk
1    Ancestral Recall
1    Brainstorm
1    Ponder
1    Sensei's Divining Top

Tutors
1    Demonic Tutor
1    Vampiric Tutor

Engine
1    Fastbond
2    Null Profusion

Win Condition 1
1    Tendrils of Agony

Win Condition 2
1    Tinker
1    Inkwell Leviathan

Win Condition 3
3    Quirion Dryad

Mana
4    Dark Ritual
1    Mox Emerald
1    Mox Jet
1    Mox Pearl
1    Mox Ruby
1    Mox Sapphire
1    Black Lotus
1    Sol Ring
1    Mana Crypt
1    Mana Vault

Land
4    Polluted Delta
3    Underground Sea
2    Tropical Island
1    Bayou
2    Reliquary Tower
1    Tolarian Academy
1    Mikokoro, Center of the Sea

Cards to Consider
Imperial Seal
Grim Tutor
Library of Alexandria

[FadeToBlack]

Are the Towers really neccessary?

I would cut the Dryads for a second copy of Tendrils and 2 other cards...they seem to take up unnecessary space.

How is this superior to TPS?

[jmedina]

Thanks for taking the time to read FTB.

The towers are sometimes necessary. If you have to pass the turn with the profusion on the table.. then the tower is really solid of else you could get Mind Twisted / Hymned out of the game.

I think your right about the Dryads. They don't seem to be pulling their weight.

I am not sure that it is superior to TPS - I suppose if you take the dryads out, then it technically is TPS with Null Profusion instead of Yawg Bargin. Does the "engine" (profusion fastbond) have merit? That's why I am trying the deck and asking you fine folks .

[FadeToBlack]

As you draw the comparison, Profusion just looks worse than Bargain. If anything, Profusion would just be another "bomb" in those sort of Ritual-based decks. Unfortunately, there are plenty of other existing cards like that, most of which do a superior job (and are thus played).

However, this is all said with zero testing of the deck.

The Towers seem cool, but I am almost just assuming that when you "go off" you will either immediately win, or have the win on the table.

Singleton Pithing Needle seems kind've loose, and I can't say I'm  a huge fan of Thoughtcast either. I think I'd rather run something more consistent like Impulse or Thirst...but that also means your slowly drifting further away from a combo deck to control (though your already playing some Drains).

All in all...I'm not sure what to make of it.   

[jmedina]

Lol - I really didn't want to draw the comparison between Bargin and Profusion but it had to be said (the elephant in the room if you will)... Bargin is insane, there is no doubt. The difference is that you can run more than one Profusion. I don't have a strong defense for profusion but I do like the card and I think it could possibly be viable. Once profusion is down all of your cards just become better in the sense that they draw you a card. Hurklys Recall becomes insane when you have a ton of moxes ect. I appreciate the input.

In playtesting the tower was good because there was times that I resolved an early profusion and I was able to keep my hand instead of having to discard down to 2.

The pithing needle is my security blanket. I like to have it for a tinker target against tezz and ichorid. But you may be right - it might need to be chopped.

Thoughtcast has raised some eyebrows LOL Thoughtcast is another cards that I am testing for viability. I have been running it in Tezz and it seems ok. I think the vertict is still out for me. Thirst is really good if I am running Colossus or Academy Ruins or if I have a Will lined up, but I am not sure I like it in this build. I really like the Impulse idea.

Thanks man for the constructive criticism !

[ErkBek]

How bout Oboro, Palace in the Clouds to combo with Null Profusion?

I recommend a couple Sensei's Tops in place of a few Rituals. They'll help your threat density, help with Thoughtcast, and help get Null Profusion rolling.

Lastly, play 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain. It's like Profusion + Fastbond in a single card.

[jmedina]

Thanks for the feedback!

Great call on the Oboro, Palace in the Clouds!  <-- I think I just picked up a foil one of these! Which makes it so much cooler of a suggestion! LOL

The other stuff I am toying with:
Sensei's Tops
Yawgmoth's Bargain

I had 4 tops and 1 Etherium Scuptor - But I took that combo aspect out .. (w/ null those will let you draw your deck up)- I ended up going with the stock 1 top and pulling the rest for quirion dryad .. who is weak in the deck at the moment.

Thanks again man! Keep the feedback coming!

[meadbert]

I would say use Oath.

Run 4 Orchards, 4 Oaths, a Rasputin Dreamweaver, a Krosan Reclamation and then a few Recoups and a few Replenishes.

Then Oath up Rasputin and pay rw to Recoup Replenish.  That should get you Bargain or Null Profusion at least and it might also get you Fastbond so you have your comb right there.
If Fastbond is missing you can always Flashback Recoup and Time Walk and then Krosan Rec Yawg on top and combo out with Yawg.

A few Cadaverous Blooms could be added in place of the Rituals to allow Recoup->Demonic->Fastbond as well.

The only issue I see is that you are reliant on the yard, but it is easy enough to replace Dreamweaver with a beat stick to ditch that vulnerability to graveyard hate.

[jmedina]

meadbert - You are a crazy mad scientist of vintage!

These are ideas are crazy cool.

It looks like I have alot of testing to do! Thanks for the feedback everyone - Keep it Coming!

[meadbert]

The other card you could play is Sterling Grove.  It can find Fastbond or Oath.  Also, once you Replenish you can use the 1 left over mana from Rasputin to sac Sterling Grove to put Fastbond on top.  Then you just draw it with Bargain/Profusion.

[jaeppel]

i feel like rector could be amazing in here.  hardcasting profusion really sucks.  you want to make it cost W3.  or even better U1, when you flash the rector eot.  playing bargain at that price is sweet too.  i would start off with flash, 4 rector, 4 therapy, 1 profusion, bargain, then throw in a handful of nifty busted enchantments, say future sight or mind over matter.  big stack of power and restricted blue cards, 12ish fetch/duals, 4 force, some duressing and tutoring, and a couple of cards that are interactive enough to prevent losing, and i think it could be a deck.

[Harlequin]

Its seems like once a year this idea comes up.  And once a year I post a link to the old list.  It's getting more and more dated, as Restrictions come and go, and new cards are printed.  However For what its worth here is our old Flash-Rector-Doomsday-Oath Deck...

It doesn't really care about Extirpate, Cabal Therepy, Sphere, even game1 leyline is easily beaten.  Duress can be particularly nasty to this deck.  But for a fullblown turn1-2 combo deck - this deck is a 10 out of 10 on the fun meter... it has the proverbial "so many insane plays"


To the best of my recollection, here is the deck that Jer was running almost a year ago when flash first was errated.  If you look back to the July tournement at myriad games you can see him comming in placed in the mid teens with "Flash Oath" (Note I swapped duress swapped for Thoughseize)
26: Mana
4 Orchard
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Acad
5 Mox
2 Lotus, Mana Crypt
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

9: Combo-starters
4 Flash
3 Oath of Druids
2 Doomsday

10: Combo Enablers
4 Academy Rector
1 Krosan Reclaimation
1 Research//Development

3: 6cc Bombs
1 Yawg's bargin
1 Null Profussion
1 Mind's Desire

7: Disruption
4 Cabal Therepy
3 Thoughtseize/Orim's Chant

9: Brokeness/Win
2 DT, Vamp
1 Regrowth
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawg Will
1 Timewalk
1 Rebuild
1 Ancestral Recall

Key Sideboard ------
3 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Oath of Druids

You can click the link at the top of the quote and take a look at the entire thread.  Keep in mind the Meta back then was GAT and Flash vrs craploads of GY hate.


The deck had basically a few main Paths to win:
Doomsday for: Recall, Lotus/Mana*, Mana Crypt, Desire, R/D
Cast Recall, your mana, and Desire (make sure you have enough mana before you start)
Hit R/D and return: Tyrant, Mox, Tendrils, (+Duress if you have the storm to cast first if you think they have creature removal).
Cast Tyrant, Mox + the crypt you already have is infinite storm, Tendrils for the win.

Oath in Rector, Therepy him and get the appropriate 6cc Broken Enchantment.  And go busted

Flash in Rector, get the appropriate 6cc Broken Enchantment.  And go busted.

The third "out" was to Research for your Tidespout Tyrants and just kinda shoddily Mid-game board into TSOath (with a bunch of rectors f-ing things up).  Which could be done against 9ball type decks running dudes or decks running Leyline Main, which was common back in the day of Legal crazy flash.

-------------------------------------------------------

Anyway It clearly needs an overhaul (at least to make it legal) But it should give you a solid foundation, or at least something to compare to.

[jaeppel]

@harlequin, that looks like a sweet list.  too bad the lords of wotc have decided flash is too broken, so already theyve opened up three slots for you.  i like the absence of force, not needing 20 blue cards really opens up alot of deck space to work with.  therapy/duress/chant/abeyance/seize are much better, since its disruption you can just play while you go off to cantrip from profusion.  force would just clog the combo.

restricting flash opens three slots.  maybe replace them with draw spells?  one each brainstorm, ponder, mystical would fit in here nicely.  i wouldnt run merchant scroll, since there really arent that many blue instants to fetch up, plus i dont really see what i would cut.

flash-rector-doomsday-oath is a mouthful.  i feel its too many things going on.  you have 4 different deck focusing strategies competing for space, i feel like cutting at least one of those strategies would focus the deck greatly.  rector-oath or doomsday-rector, but all three just clogs up too many deck slots.

just my 73 cents