Wargate in Turbo Gush

[meadbert]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//carddisplay.php?product=56137
Wargate 
Sorcery
Puts a permanent from your library of Converted mana cost X or less into play.

This card may have a place in Turbo Gush.  Consider this list:
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
4 Island
1 Cephalid Colliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Wargate

4 Fathom Seer/Compulsive Research (I think Fathom Seer is actually better)
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
4 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth

2 Argivian Find

sideboard:
4 Wasteland
4 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Balance
3 Ray of Revelation

So what does Wargate give this deck?  It gives it a Tutor for Fastbond.  Paying  to put Fastbond directly into play is actually less expensive than using Intuition.  Also this leaves you with Intuition to find the lands for you combo.  The weakness is that this is sorcery speed and it must be payed for in one turn rather than in multiple turns like Argivian Find and Intuition.  Wargate is a decent Drain sink since you can use it to put Crucible into play.  Wargate pitches to Force which is huge.  In order to keep Fastbond from coming into play, one must counter Wargate leaving Fastbond in the yard to be grabbed by another Wargate.

A second huge use for Wargate is to pay  and put Strip Mine directly into play untapped. 

Post board Wargate can grab Tormod's Crypt.  The fact that Wargate dodges Chalice of the Void is also significant.

Wargate does not seem to bring Turbo Gush back to its glory days, but it does seem to be an improvement over what it was post blue restrictions.

Are there other uses for Wargate?
Perhaps Neo Academy could use it to reliably find Tolarian Academy.

[chrissss]

I probably keep reading over it, but what is the kill condition?

[wiley]

Fastbond + Crucible + strip mine + coliseum.

After you gain inf life with stadium you can inf mill your opponent.  You can also mill yourself with the coliseum to find the stadium.

This was the old Turbo Gush thread:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35212.0

[andrewpate]

Sarnath'd by wiley while typing this, but in case it isn't clear to anyone I'll post it anyway:

1. Tap Tundra for W.
2. Strip Mine Tundra.
3. Replay both with Crucible, taking 2 damage from Fastbond.
4. Gain 4 life with Nomad Stadium.
5. Replay Nomad Stadium, taking 1 damage from Fastbond.
6. Repeat until you have infinite life.
7. Repeatedly play and Strip Tundra for U.
8. Use Cephalid Coliseum on yourself until you get a perfect hand of countermagic to protect your combo.
9. Deck the opponent with Cephalid Coliseum.

Is this really the way to go?  I'm sure you have tested the deck much more than I have, but this kill and this build seem incredibly vulnerable to a lot of stuff.  A single Ethersworn Canonist or Meddling Mage is very bad news.  And what about a Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus in play?  Seeing one maindeck is not all that uncommon, and activating it just one time to remove Nomad Stadium from the game seems, as I read your decklist, to win the game instantly.  And unless you counter it on the way down, you can't beat it game 1 except by getting them to misplay it.

[madmanmike25]

Unless I am mistaken, is that a 6 card combo?

1. W mana land(of which there are 7 possible considering fetchlands).
2. Strip Mine
3. Crucible
4. Fastbond
5. Nomad Stadium
6. Cephalid Coliseum

If that is correct, whats the average kill turn?

[LennoxLewis86]

It's not really a combo, it's a wincondition and the way to ensure the win requires less. Looking at it as if it's a 6 card combodeck is a bit off if you ask me.

[meadbert]

Old Turbo Gush with 4xScroll/Brainstorm/Gush goldfished by turn 3 about 70% of the time so the deck was really fast.

Neither Cannonist nor Mage cause much trouble.

Canonist does little since he does not affect how many lands you can play.

Mage on Fastbond is slightly annoying but you have 5 solutions.
First you can Wargate for Fastbond.  Second you can Echoing Truth the Meddling Mage.

Basically the deck is a 2 card combo because with Fastbond + Crucible you have a silly amount of mana.  From there you can Intuition for all 3 lands or you can Wargate for Strip Lock or near infinite draw with Colliseum.  Also you can use your "5 Gushes" to just draw a ton of cards till you find Intuition or Wargate.

I have not tested this list much so I am not saying it is good yet, but traditional Turbo Gush I tested a ton and winning too slowly was not a problem for that list at all.

My suspicion is that the bigger problem will be fast disruption.  With 4 Scroll and 4 Brainstorm you could find Force on turn 1 a lot more.  Neither Fathom Seer nor Wargate solve that problem.  Combo decks will probably be the reason this deck is not viable.

[chrissss]

Ok cool. I misread the Cephalid Colliseum, I didnt know it was target player.

So you always hit threshold by 2 or 3d turn?

[meadbert]

So you always hit threshold by 2 or 3d turn?

So the way old Turbo Gush played out is that you can easily get threshold with a fetch since you can fetch out your 8 duals/Islands and then Strip them.
Generally you would win whichever turn you play Fastbond.  I nearly top 8ed with Turbo Gush at the last SCG after going 4-0 in the first few rounds.
In the first game of the tournament my opponent opened with turn 1 Null Rod and I opened with turn 1 Fastbond, Gush, Gush, Crucible, Scroll->Intuition->win.  It is the only time I have won on turn 1 through Null Rod in a tournament.

This list is probably going to be slower since Fathom Seer is much worse than Gush and Wargate requires 4 mana to put Fastbond into play.

[jaeppel]

ghost quarter have a place here?

[meadbert]

Ghost Quarter is interesting since it sort of functions as both Strip Mine or a fetch that can at least find your 4 Islands, but Strip Mine is still better.  Perhaps room could be made for Ghost Quarter in the board.

[andrewpate]

Canonist does little since he does not affect how many lands you can play.

I couldn't agree more.  In fact, Canonist does next to nothing, and I did not mean to refer to it.  What I meant to say was Aven Mindcensor, which shuts down Intuition and Wargate.

Mage on Fastbond is slightly annoying but you have 5 solutions.
First you can Wargate for Fastbond.  Second you can Echoing Truth the Meddling Mage.

Very true, and I would not normally set Meddling Mage to Fastbond in this matchup.  I would instead set it to Intuition, which makes it virtually impossible to assemble the large number of components needed to start going off.  At that point, you must draw into your singleton Echoing Truth or one of the two tutors that gets it, which means you are not using those tutors to find other cards like Gush or countermagic.  A Fish deck playing out any sort of clock (Goyf, maybe Jotun Grunt) should be able to kill within that extra window of time, given the lack of relevant anti-aggro cards you are maindecking.  Balance is obviously a house in game 2.

That said, I don't think the deck is that much weaker to Meddling Mage or Aven Mindcensor than plenty of other good decks, and neither of those is getting an enormous amount of play currently.  The bigger concern is probably, as you point out, combo.  The more popular Fish builds, like BUG, rely more on some combination of Null Rod, Wasteland, permission, and discard.  All of these are clearly suboptimal here except for the permission, and few Fish builds run much more than the 8 slots you have, so no big deal there.

Why Null Rod in the board?  Drains make up such a large portion of the meta right now that having it maindeck seems worthwhile if you are going to run it at all.  But I don't see what you are taking out for them that doesn't make your deck so clunky as to fold almost instantly against a strong permission suite.  Seems like either the deck should be rebuilt to fully accommodate them or they should be left out entirely.

You're happy with 2 Crypt, 4 Wasteland, 1 Strip, 3 Crucible, and 1 Echoing Truth against Ichorid?  That's a high probability of getting in at least one broken Bazaar activation and potentially forcing you to find Echoing Truth or die to zombies.

[TopSecret]

I thought of this today, and then I see that you've already made a thread for it.
lol Weird coincidence.

Wouldn't having a Glacial Chasm maindeck be good, since you can find it with Wargate against aggro?
What about Tolarian Academy or a singleton Tormod's Crypt?
Could a single Engineered Explosives in the board be worth it?

I'm just curious about whether or not you've tinkered with fitting in singletons to tutor for with Wargate.

[andrewpate]

Glacial Chasm also lets you go off after Nomad Stadium has been removed from the game, making it both disruption and an alternate kill.

[Beralt]

This seems very standardish but Academy Ruins as a recursion land useful?

Liking the use of Wargate.

[meadbert]

Mindscensor wrecks this deck.  I mentioned that in the original Turbo Gush thread but not here.

Mage on Intuition is not that bad since you can still generate a ton of mana and draw like crazy.  Fathom Seers can block Mage in perpetuity so there is no clock that you have to worry about there.  Wargates actually sort of replace Intuition in that they help you find Nomad Stadium so you can start gaining 7 life a turn.

Glacial Chasm is only good once Fastbond is out and as I mentioned before, you used to generally win the turn you played Fastbond anyway.  Now it is a bit tougher.

Without Fastbond Drain does not want to sac a land and miss a land drop to put Chasm into play.

A token Crypt in the main is probably worth it just for Dredge.

Explosives I am not sure against.

It used to be that Shop Aggro was a terrible matchup for this deck because the life loss was such a pain.
For that reason Rods and Wastes were actually added for Shop Aggro and Stax.  Wasteland is amazing against Stax since if you waste their Shop their deck just becomes bad.
Also Waste functions as 4 extra mana sources to help play spells out from under Sphere of Resistance.

The Dredge boarding plan is as follows:
-4 Force
-4 Drain
+4 Waste
+2 Crypt
+1 Balance
+1 ... I seem to have made a mistake here.  Perhaps -1 Ray of Revelation from the board for another Tormod's Crypt.

[VarienTanafres]

Not sure if this should go here or not, just returning to MTG from a 2-3 year break . . .
I have a somewhat related deck that I've been playing with a long time now and just decided to try out wargate myself. The deck isn't as fast/reliable as I'd like it to be, so I figured testing out Wargate would be pretty good idea.
Note: I have no power and haven't been to a Vintage Tournament in awhile, so I'm running no proxies atm.

Land:
4x Polluted Delta
3x Volcanic Island
3x Tropical Island
3x underground Sea
3x City of Brass
1x Strip Mine
2x Wasteland
2x Barbarian Ring
2x Glacial Chasm

Artifact:
3x Crucible of Worlds
1x Zuran Orb
1x Sol Ring
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal

Draw/Fetch:
3x Impulse
4x Accumulated Knowledge
2x Sylvan Scrying
1x Crop Rotation
1x Brainstorm
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Gush
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Wheel of Fortune
2x Wargate

Other:
2x Misdirection
4x Force of Will
1x Fastbond
1x Regrowth
1x Pernicious Deed

Sieboard:
2x Putrefy
2x Ground Seal
2x Choke
2x Viashino Heretic
7x Open

It looks like a mess and plays like one too. I'm playtesting a few different ideas, haven't had a chance to really playtest with anyone though.
Sylvan Scrying - Land tutor? This card is great, when needed. At times it's a dead card though.
Crop Rotation - minus needing a last ditch effort for Barbarian Ring or a Chasm, been a dead card.
Gifts Ungiven - I don't know, I figured it could do really good or really bad, so far, hasn't been very helpful, will take it out after more playing.
Impulse - This card is actually really really good since I started using it since Brainstorm restriction.
A.K. - I dropped Intuitions and kept the A.K.s for drawing power. Really haven't noticed a difference without the Intuitions. Not sure if I should replace the A.K.s with anything.
Wargate - So far, I'm liking the results I get from this card. With no mana issues, I pretty much get choice as to what I want in play. Thinking about adding another one.
Pernicious Deed - Um, no idea what I was thinking. Oh yea, just in case I needed a reset or bomb for 0. Engineered Explsoives will most likely replace this for better control. Failing trial so far using the Deed.
Sideboard - I can't even go there. . .

Sidenotes -
Adding a Balance to sideboard at least would be awesome.

[Guli]

I also think crop rotation should be added really.

[Gambit]

What are this decks strong matchups? What matchups is it weak to?

[VarienTanafres]

What are this decks strong matchups? What matchups is it weak to?

I haven't gone up against Teir 1 or Tier 2 decks as I've have been out of the game for ages, as to the original posters list: I'd like to know as well.

[kalisia]

I love this concept, the old version with 4 Gushes was incredible!
I think this build is not dead, it just needs to be adapted, and Meadbert had a good idea with the card Wargate.
In fact, this card could be used in many decks, iti s for example a good tutor for Time Vault or Voltaic Key, but as I hate thix 2-card combo, I will discuss about Turbo-Gush!

Here is the version I submit.
As we play 3 Crucibles maindeck, I'm sure that a 4 color build is possible!
I also think that it is not acceptable to play with only one kill maindeck which is depending on 5 or 6 cards and which is also depending on graveyard! I listed Tinker - DSC as a second kill condition, but it can be changed easily. A deck like this one (I mean using Fastbond) should consider Meloku the Clouded Mirror which is completely synergic with.

As Aven Mindcensor destroys the deck, the first action is to decrease the number of Intuitions and Wargates, and the second plan i founded is to play Darkblast in sideboard. If we can play Intuition/Gifts Ungiven (or another tutor) to find Darkblast before the opponent can play Mindcensor, we are in a good position.

For the black splash, I am sure that it is the right way to explore. The three cards are too broken to be ignored.

The list :

2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Cephalid Colliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Colossus

2 Wargate

1 Compulsive Research
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
2 Intuition
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Misdirection
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Reclaim

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor



sideboard:

1 Wasteland
1 Trinisphere
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Trygon Predator
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Balance
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Darkblast

[Beralt]

Missed Tinker, I would drop Compulsive Research to make room for it.

[VarienTanafres]

why Yawg. Will? Isn't that counter productive for a deck based like this? I ended up dropping mine b/c it's not like I can combo off once it's used. It's good to get things back, but generally isn't that much of a help.

[Stormanimagus]

You see, I wouldn't really like this deck unless Gush were Unrestricted. I would want to play an aggressive "Gro" Style deck with a couple avenues to Victory. One that is a sort of "Prison" approach where you set up the hard lock with Fastbond + Crucible + Strip + Infinite Life off Stadium or some-such, and the other that is a more slow aggro approach. I think Wargate is freaking brilliant though. Great innovation and creativity.

Here's a list I'd like to posit as a possible list assuming the DCI does the right thing and unrestricts Gush come June 1.

Turbo Gate

Land (15):
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
2 Island
1 Cephalid Colliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (9):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
3 Crucible Of Worlds

Artifact Creatures (1):
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Creatures (3):
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Quirion Dryad

Sorceries (12):
4 Wargate
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Ponder
1 Regrowth
2 Thoughtseize

Instants (19):
4 Force Of Will
4 Gush
3 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact Or Fiction
1 Crop Rotation
1 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

Enchantments (1):
1 Fastbond

SB
3 Extirpate
3 Yixlid Jailer
2 Thoughtseize
1 Darkblast
4 Swords To Plowshares
2 Hurkyl’s Recall

And here's another more crazy list:

Turbo Oath

Land (16):
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Island
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (10):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
3 Crucible Of Worlds

Creatures (1):
1 Progenitus

Sorceries (10):
4 Wargate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Thoughtseize

Instants (19):
4 Force Of Will
4 Gush
3 Mana Drain
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact Or Fiction
1 Crop Rotation
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

Enchantments (4):
1 Fastbond
3 Oath Of Druids

SB
1 Oath Of Druids
1 Blazing Archon
3 Extirpate
3 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Tinker
1 Sundering Titan
2 Thoughtseize
3 Pithing Needle

ENJOY!

[kalisia]

I exhume this topic because with the new B/R list, I'm sure there is something strong we can do with this deck.
1) We have to consider the restriction of Thirst for Knowledge, which is good for us, because we play Intuition/AK and because it decreases the power of the control decks who were abusing of Thirst (Tezz decks, Drain-Tendrils decks, etc...)
2) We have access to 4 Enlightened tutors, and 4 Crop Rotation.

For the moment, I'm searching combos/ synergic cards and here is what I noted:

1) Several Enlighteneds can be used to find Fastbond, or Crucible (We have access to strong tutors for fastbond wittout splash black)
2) Several Crops can be used to find the missing land for the combo
3) May be something could be done with other cards : for example, Meloku the Clouded Mirror with fastbond and Lifegift( fetchable with Enlightened) gives infinite tokens, with Tolarian academy it can give infinite mana, etc...

[Sam101]

I really like glacial chasm against Tezz, most lists don't run a main deck answer to it, so having a chasm in play guarantees you another turn (even if they go infinite with vault key).