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Author Topic: May 10th Free Vintage Results from Damien Miller/Milwaukee Magic Cards & Games  (Read 4020 times)
Elpacifismo
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« on: May 11, 2009, 04:50:23 pm »

We had 24 people in attendance for this event.

The event ran 5 rounds and cut to top 8:

The top 8 Competitors were:
Derek Wochinski
James Ward
Mike Solymossy
Shawn Williams
Bryan Ferry
Ryan Forsberg
Peter Smutko
Nicolas Meylan

Top 8 Round 1 (quarterfinals):
Derrick Wochinski vs James Ward - Derek wins 2-0
Mike Solymossy vs Shawn Williams - Mike wins 2-0
Bryan Ferry vs Ryan Forsberg - Ryan wins 2-0
Peter Smutko vs Nicholas Meylan - Peter wins 2-1

Top 8 Round 2 (semifinals):
Derek Wochinski vs Ryan Forsberg - Ryan wins 2-0
Peter Smutko vs Mike Solymossy - Peter wins 2-0

Top 8 Round 3 (finals):
Ryan Forsberg vs Peter Smutko - Ryan wins 2-0

Thanks to everyone that came out for this event,  I hope to see you all at the next event on June 14th. 


1st - Ryan Forsberg
2nd - Peter Smutko
3rd/4th - Mike Solymossy/Derek Wochinski
5th - 8th
James Ward/Shawn Williams/Bryan Ferry/Nicholas Meylan

3rd/4th,  and 5th - 8th not listed in any particular order.
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pinson
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2009, 06:33:05 pm »

Hi all,
I played in this tournament (Nick) and wanted to say a few things about how it went and about the deck I played.
But first, a big thank you to the organizers, who offered a pleasant atmosphere, judged effectively and offered a huge prize without having us pay an entree fee. Wow.

Since I first heard of Rich Shay's mystic Remora deck (essentially through Gerry T's report) I had really been feeling like giving the deck a spin. I should by now mention that this was my first Type 1 tournament in more than ten years, so when one of the guys I play with, Peter Smutko, told me he would go to this tournament, I decided I'd play it in Milwaukee.
Some test drives against the decks it is designed to beat (TPS, Tezzeret) led Smutko to opt for fish, and, be that because of my poor playing skills or some more structural element, all of a sudden I really didn't feel like playing the deck.
This testing, however, led me to a number of (banal?) thoughts about mystic remora.

First, I don't think it really qualifies as an engine, since it so depends one your opponent's cooperation (and actual list). As card draw, it is simply unreliable.
Second, the remora is actualized in two opposite ways: either you gain cards or you gain turns. I wanted my deck to exploit both, but I felt Shay's list did not fully accomplish this when it came to exploiting the turns the remora gives (and I say this without actually knowing the way Rich plays the deck...).

My take on this problem was to build a deck that profits from these "free" turns, and the way I think this can be done in the current environment is by playing a cheap combo of at most two cards, with as close as possible to the maximum allowed (4 of each) in order to draw it from the top of the deck as often as possible. In this way I both disrupt the opponent's early game and give myself the turns to get my mana on the table and (hopefully) draw the combo. Ideally, I will then open the big turn with a fresh remora at which point the deck plays like most people envision it, drawing free cards and playing free counter magic.
This meant leaving mana drain out, something I really do not mind, since I like playing remora as early as possible.

When I saw Peter Flugzeug (a fellow Swiss)'s list for BOM3 on this forum, I really felt that the theory could turn to practice, and this is what I sleeved up:
4 Mystic remora
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Commandeer

4 Painter's servant
3 Grindstone
3 Pyroblast
1 Red elemental blast
2 Repeal
1 Inkwell Leviathan

2 Thirst for knowledge
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts ungiven
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 Sensei's divining top

5 Mox
1 Black lotus
1 Sol ring

1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Snow covered island

Sideboard
3 Planar Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
3 Ancient grudge
1 Tropical Island
3 Pyroclasm
1 Darkblast
1 Hurkyl's recall

Round 1 I'm a lazy bum, so I dont really take note, so I apologize for not knowing my opponent's name Sad. He was playing red green aggro, with the 3/1 haste guy for  {R} and direct damage.
My life totals indicate I won at 12 and 7. I know I misdirected direct damage both games and I stopped Burning shoals. I didn't see the remoras in this match, but both times drew the combo off the top of the deck.

Round 2, Shawn Williams from the top 8. He was playing a UR fish, with shamans and cloud of faeries. While I am afraid of fish, this is not a version that worries me, as the white creatures are far more dangerous than what the red can give (canonist, mindcensor, possibly meddling mage). I was in control essentially of the whole first game, however, the second one was really hard for me. It eventually came to a disgusting Will on my part (finally finding a source of black mana) while I was at three life. I played over seven cards from the graveyard, first of which was a remora, hit his shaman with a pyroblast (painter naming blue), then played ancestral finding grindstone. I couldn't activate hit but he was out of card with very few mana (I think I hit a land and a mox with blasts at some point) and so I was able to kill him after that.

Round 3, Roberto with bazaar Ichorid. Not much to say about this game. He mulligans to two both games. He does find the two times the bazaar he needs, however, he obviously never gets to unmask me, so I just find the combo and kill turn three both games. I have essentially no experience with vintage ichorid, however, it seems hard for it to kill before turn three because he wasn't playing zealots, so if I'm on the play, I have a decent shot at winning before I get killed (again I have no experience to back this up).

Rounds 4 and 5, ID.

Quarter finals against Smutko. He plays fish of the blue white variety. His deck, and his person, are the reasons I added the pyroclasm to the board. He's a great friend, but who likes to lose to friends right?
Problem is, he has all the cards I really hate: canonist, chalice, null rod. One or two of them on the board I can deal with. All three together (or a chalice on 1 and another on 2) and I can fold. This happens game 1 pretty quickly. I cripple myself pitching forces to couunter single cards and he just gets there.
Game two, I get to fight with my board of three grudges three clasms. After a number of turns, I have the combo on the board, but he has a chalice at one, a canonist, a pithing needle and a null rod. He plays a spell which I answer with a grudge on the rod. Next turn he plays end of turn spellstutter Sprite, I respond by cracking my now active lotus for green and destroy the needle, and kill him.
Game three, he plays turn 1 mox, land chalice for 1. My blasts in hand look really silly now. Turn two he plays canonist and wastes my land. Turn three strip and something. Turn four, chalice for two, and I concede.
I think I kept a lousy hand game three, it had ruby and a couple blasts... but none of my board cards, which I think I should have tried to find.

I ended up really liking the deck, I think it is pretty striong in that it actually has removal main deck (ok, you need the painter), the disruption package for control decks is really wonderful (to the point of getting absird results vs. Tezz in testing) and you really aren't soft at all vs TPS. I really haven't played much against Stax, so there isn't much I can say except that I personally hate playing against prison decks. Creatures are obviously a liability, but much less so than for tezz (remember, painter has a 1/3 body). Pyroclasm help, but if Wild Nacatl starts to become popular, I guess Firespout may be the way to go.

Props
-Smutko, great player, efficient playtest partner, and designated driver
-Fangs and Willie, for providing the lols, and the jaguar (kicks like a mule)
-The TO's.
Slops
-not much come to think of it

Nick

« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 06:42:45 pm by pinson » Logged
M.Solymossy
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2009, 06:53:01 pm »

Great to see you playing, Nick.  It was a pleasure!

This event was well ran.  It's a good sign for Milwaukee Vintage when 24 people come, and we're lacking most of ICBM and some of GWS too.
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pinson
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2009, 06:54:28 pm »

Hi Mike,
It was nice to meet you, and a ton of fun to play!
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JudasKilled
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 07:26:10 pm »

Ryan Forsberg here, good tourney, was fun, people were playing decent decks, mostly tier with afew exceptions.

I felt I played a good tournament, I didnt lose a single game the entire time.  Granted I did get to skip playing either of my decks rough match ups in dredge/oath.  Though I will admit Sully did beat me playing for fun in a match after the tourney.

(Extreme Naya) my list:


4 heath
4 wooded foothills
4 taiga
4 plateu
3 savanah
3 mox
1 lotus
4 wild nactl
4 lightning bolt
4 figure of destiny
4 ethersworn cannonist
4 goyf
4 quasali pridemage
3 tin street hooligan
3 gadock teeg
3 null rod
4 aven mind censor

Sb:
3 krosan grips
4 reb
1 pyroblast
3 volcanic fallout
1 null rod
3 pithing needle

Match 1
My opponent is running a standard remora/meditation list.  Arrives late to the toney and admits hes never played the deck before.  Nice guy.

G1:  Honestly game one I open with a hand of wild nactl, teeg, goyf, and mind censor, with fetchx2 and mox pearl.
I open with fetch pearl teeg.  I draw out the FoW I wanted and pass. he plays land and passes.  I play land pass the turn he upkeeps for remora, plays a fetch i flash aven in response he wifs the land and never recovers.
G2:  He barely plays anything besides a daze and meditates when I allrdy have 7 dmg worth of creatures on the board GG.
2-0

Match 2  Quiet guy, takes notes and seemed to take a decent chunk of time making his decisions.  Definetly seemed to be a dangerous opponent.  He was playign U/B/W meddling mage, chalice, BoB etc.
G1:  He plays a chalice for 0 a few creatures and stabalizes mid game due 2 me having double mox and 1 land when he plays null rod.  I had board control with goyf, aven, and dbl pridemage.  He starts recovering a pound in trading of creatures 4 dmg, he plays bob at 5 life with no top intendign to block and I dont attack with my goyf/pridemage holding back incase he has key/t vault in the grip (5 card hand).  I let him draw and cast spells to draw more and after 3 turns bob kills him.

G2:  I just run him over and play around counter spells with ReB in the grip.

Match 3:
I play peter smutko playing u/w disruption with im assuming tinker elements.
G1:  I draw land, fetch, goyf x2 , tin stret x2 and nactl.  I open with Wild nactl on the play, he draws fetches and plays land and chalices for 1.
I draw cannonist and play cannonist and swing 3.  He i think playes duress whiffs then plays meddling mage naming tin street.
I proceed just over run him with goyfs and creatures.

G2: He gets a a good opener with a few creatures and some counters.  Unfortunetly my creatures just are better and I land an aven mindcensor and take any major problem cards like tinker darksteel out of the equation.  I overrun and use bolts /reb to prevent his mutavaults, spellstutter sprites and meddling mages from putting up enough resistance.

Match 4 and 5 I.D into top 8

Finals Match 1:

I got 1 hour of sleep the night before had to piss every 20 mintes after popping some ephedra and cant remember for the life of me who I played.  I know the match was over in about 15 minutes and was easily won.

Finals Match 2:
I play Derek Wochinksi running goyf control.  Honestly game 1 I open with figure of destiny that he FoW's which is honestly in a control/aggro deck one of the best things he can do.  People underestimate figure in vintage it gives me gas and its something that will never be removed and barely ever bounced. He plays gotyf and I follow up with goyf.  He passes turn and i play my 3rd land and pass he fetches I aven mindcensor in response and I believe he thirsts digging for FoW.  Misses the thirsta nd whiffs the land.  I proceed to just keep churning out creatres and he acnt keep up.

Game 2:   He gets somewhat land flooded with at the end 5 lands on board after mindcensor made him whiff 2 or so.  He lands a goyf but gegts over run.  After showing me what he boarded in 4 sowers threads etc he could have deffinetly drawn better.

Match 3:
I hear ohh fuck I really dont wanna play you.  Im tired and honestly just burned out.  I offer him 10 bucks to scoop the match and he takes it.  Honestly I think giving him even a 10% chance of winning was high.  So thats the tourney.

I like this deck because it can beat anything in the format.  Alot of people have been giving me flak since I took a r/w aggro deck 2 months ago at extreme games not having played vintage in 13 years.  I asked people what yawgs will did in that tournament.  I got 9th after a very close tie Breaker.  Since then ive beeen testing vintage and revamping this deck.  got a 3rd place finish in the next tourney and won a time walk 3 weeks ago.

I get a kick out of the traditional vintage players complaining about my extended deck.  But honestly 2 tournaments with 0 match loses in a row seems that just because i dont run everyu broken restriced card in the format doesnt mean I cant come up with something that does/ can beat all that stuff.  Look at the list and look at your deck and ask yourself how many of those cards hurt.  Either way, ill continue to not play net lists and try and win.

But anyways gg's folks see ou sunday for the mox tourney.
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Isaac85
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 07:51:05 pm »

Blah it sucks I couldn't make it but it would be a 4+hr drive for me. Congratulations to the winner and good luck with the store.
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009, 10:52:42 pm »

Yeah Ryan, Soly has some experience pulling wins out against decks kind of like that one. Wink
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JudasKilled
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2009, 11:09:13 pm »

no biggys, he crushed me one game with early tinker, i crushed him 1 game, and another game he had agreat opener with chalice but i ripped lotus land pearl and got arnd it, he later mystical tutored with aven on board to hit echoing then echoingd into rebuild into retarded drwas 4 the win, we both agreed its about 50/50 and honestly if he was less of a caliber of play I think I would be ahead
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chief
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2009, 11:19:32 pm »

I was referring only to the fact that i've played similar decks to the one you played off and on for quite a while, and for much of that time period Soly was one of my primary testing partners.
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 12:31:33 am »

Yeah Ryan and I talked about the match, and both agreed that the Tezzeret player needs to turn into the combo deck to stand a chance.   The goal is to tinker by turn 3, or assemble Key-Vault.  You might think that's obvious because that's what Tezzeret does, but contrary to Jimmy McCarthy's belief, I don't believe this deck  can successfully turn 3 or turn 4 without an insane draw.  The deck just doesn't have the same engine the pre-restriction Gifts decks did.
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 04:57:46 am »

I had fun.  Sadly I had to leave early so I ended up just scooping to my first two opponents, but I still got to get some more TPS practice.  Congrats to the top finishers.  Some day, a real deck will win a Milwaukee event... at least I hope so.

Playing against those 3color aggro decks with Tezz is different for sure.  I've played Jamison a few times and some other people with similar decks with Tezz, and its rare that I don't feel like I should win.  Mulliganing aggressively is really important for the Tezz player, and knowing your plan (be it Tinker or Key-vault) is really really important because if you start to get off track it's almost impossible to recover.  Also, you can bring in some pretty powerful board cards which the aggro deck can't really match (whether it's control magics or Goyfs or sweepers or Oath).
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JudasKilled
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2009, 05:20:01 pm »

I honestly think a couple shackles or sowers may be enough to turn the tide but then again threads is harder to disrupt with the deck then the other 2
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 12:13:55 pm »

Can we get decklists please?
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 12:59:12 pm »

I top 8ed with this:

URa FAERIE
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Cloud of Faeries
1 Vendillion Clique
4 Cursecatcher
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Rebuild
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
3 Fire/Ice
3 Gorilla Shaman
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
3 Null Rod
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Poluted Delta
3 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
3 Mutavault

SB
3 Annul
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Greater Gargadon

Beat Tendril's 2-1 (Null Rod!)
Lost to Painter 0-2
Beat UBR Fish 2-1 (Fire/Ice!)
ID with Derek
Beat Ichorid 2-0 (Cursecather!)
top8
Lost to Soly Tez 0-2

3-1-1 on the day. Not bad.
I mistakenly kept a bad opener against Soly game one. And misplayed my control elements game 2. And against Painter he really had great hands and topdecks against me. Beating Ichorid game one was amazing!

My deck felt really good actually!

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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2009, 03:10:38 pm »

I don't think you could have won game 2 either way though, Shawn.  If you don't fight for your Ninja,I still have force of Will to protect my tinker.  You only had one counter up anyway.
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 03:27:53 pm »

Since nothing was happening, and you had the mana and artifact to cast Tinker for a few turns, I assume you didn't have Tinker. So I hardcast Ninja trying to get the card advantage into my favor. You Drained (?) and I Forced back. But I simply should have sat back and not cast Ninja there at all, because my hand also had 2 Mana Leak. 2 Mana Leak, Force and another blue card, and 4 mana would have kept Tinker/Colossus at bay... I sometimes forget my deck with 12 maindeck counters (if you count Spellstutters), (and especially with 4 more REBs from the board) that I can play fairly controlling and not rush out beaters, or in this case and at that point, an overcosted 2/2 draw engine. Hardcasting Ninja isn't a bad play at times, but there, given my hand, it was.
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 05:50:20 pm »

I was curious I really didnt understand why the spellstutters were in the deck, granted they counter vamp tutor, recall and a few others but were they really effective?  Maybe im biased because they didnt do anything against me.  Just curious if you would run the stutters again?
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 08:10:15 pm »

I was talking to Peter Smutko after the tournament and he expressed a similar feeling about the Spellstutters, that they were generally unimpressive.  He told me he would not run them again.

Would it be possible to get top 8 lists?

Thanks.
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2009, 12:50:37 am »

My (Derek Wochinski) top 8 list...

3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Stifle
1x Trickbind
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Negate
4x Null Rod
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Misdirection
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
2x Telling Time
1x Trinket Mage
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
5x Island


SB
3x Anull
2x Trygon Predator
4x Sower of Temptation
1x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Echoing Truth
1x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenetis

The deck did what it was supposed to do, beat the top decks.  But, in top 4 I ran into Naya Aggro.  Never saw any of my Sowers or Threads.  My lone Goyf just looked scared. 
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2009, 08:33:31 am »

The synergy with Cloud Faeries, Ninja of the Deep Hours, and Mutavaults all make Spellstutter Sprites pretty strong cards actually. I generally like them a lot. And playing Null Rod, Wastes, and Cursecathers; keep opponents mana costs down and spells in Spellstutter range.

They; like Mana Leak, Negate, Remand, Mana Drain (needing UU) or any counter, have drawbacks certainly. But Spellstutters are great quite often. I also like Spellstutters for Flashing in and blocking attacking Welders, Confidants, Aven Mindsencors, and more. And they fly (great with Ninja) and average around 4 damage a game - Not bad for a card that also countered a Duress/Brainstorm/Figure of Destiny/Black Lotus on the way in.
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