[Deck] "Hatching Paint", another blue engine

[beder]

Hi all,

Sorry for my English, message from France.

I worked on kind of a new concept during the last months and I feel like it is pretty interesting in today’s meta. So I want to share it with you.

This deck is based around the Hatching Plans engine, supported with “not frequently played” cards.

Remark: I already created a thread about this alternative engine a few months ago; instead of necroing the thread, I prefer to start a new one, given that the deck changed significantly.

Here are the 3 main ideas of this deck:
-   Hatching Plans may be totally broken,
-   Painter/Stone is a pretty interesting combo,
-   In some very rare cases, huge synergies may be more efficient than card’s own power.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The deck’s engine

The main engine of the deck is made of 16 blue cards:
4 Mystic Remora
4 Hatching Plans
4 Perilous Research
4 Abjure

All those cards have interesting or huge synergies. For instance, here are the reevaluated synergized values of the cards:
-   Hatching plans + Abjure = Ancestral Recall for U1 and Counterspell for U
-   Hatching plans + Perillous Research = Ancestral Recall for U1 and “instant draw 2” for U1
Without Hatching Plans:
-   Abjure can be supported by Mystic remora or by any permanents if painter is on board
-   Perillous Research can be supported by any permanent, especially off color moxes in mid game
When it comes to Mystic Remora, this card helps the deck dealing with first turns, providing just enough time (and possibly cards) to be able to put on board the required cards while keeping blue open (hatching or painter).

Important point: Sacrificing a blue permanent is part of the casting cost of Abjure. As a consequence, once hatching is on board, even if abjure is countered, “draw 3“ will go on stack and often help finding another counter.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The deck’s main strategy

This deck is clearly a control deck (“more control/less combo” than tezz for instance). At one moment in the game, the engine will start drawing many many many cards… allowing you to end the game pretty easily either with painter or with Tinker/Leviathan and multiple counters backup.
First turn play is either remora or hatching. The second or the third turn is generally the very strong one.
Succeeding in putting hatching on board – with abjure or perillous in hand - is the first objective. If not possible, then remora can win you the required time.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The deck’s win condition

Painter/Stone and Tinker/Leviathan are the two win conditions of the deck.
Why painter instead of Vault/Key? Because painter helps the deck supporting consistently Abjure. Then painter is also nice as a little wall, against all the 2/x creatures of aggro decks, fighting one of the weaknesses of mystic remora.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Hatching Paint V1

(15 lands)
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

3 Painter's Servant
1 Inkwell Leviathan

1 Grindstone

4 Mystic Remora
4 Hatching Plans
4 Perilous Research
4 Abjure

4 Force of Will
1 Commandeer
1 Misdirection

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Hurkyl's Recall

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Remark : one slot could be freed : the 4th perillous research. This one is perhaps not 100% necessary. But I didn’t find any better option.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Matchups

Tezz (and more generally drain decks) is not a bad match up, thanks to the very efficient draw engine (remora helps a lot).

Storm is also a pretty good matchup: remora is your silver bullet, the draw engine helps having enough pitch counters to stop the different threat.

Null Rod decks do not hurt this deck as much as other ones. Indeed, most of the card used here are low CC (1 or 2), allowing the deck to operate with low mana (or even to recycle artifacts thanks to perillous research). Then, painter is a nice little wall.

Aggro decks (shop aggro included) are pretty difficult, like for any control decks. Painter helps but is of course not sufficient to block tarmo or juggernaut.

Stacks: in the U/B version, the mana base is really stable. Then hatching plans is a nice card against smokestack. Not a bad matchup, thanks to the combo finish and to Tinker.

Oath: didn’t test enough

Ichorid: depending on the number of slots dedicated in the side.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Some other options for this deck: the red splash

For sure, accessing red blast with painter is really interesting. To do so, here is my proposal :
-   Remove 1 Perillous Research, the Misdirection and the  Commandeer for 3 REB,
-   Add 2 (or 3) volcanic island

Up until now, I am still not sure if this is better. Weakening the mana base for the “blast package” has to be strongly thought. I think this is definitely a matter of meta (depending on the number of wastes).

One good solution could be to add 1 volcanic in main and 1 in side, so that one can side-in 3-4 blasts against blue decks.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Thanks for reading this thread, I hope you will give a try to this deck, I truly believe this engine can be a nice contender nowadays.

Nicolas

[A.-1.]

Since you last posted about this deck, what happened to the Sage of Epityr/Cursecatcher slot? I assume that you decided on Mystic Remora as being the better drop.

I've always liked REBs/Pyroblasts to go along with Painter in this deck. In a heavy Drain meta, I could definitely see -1 Research, Misd, Commandeer for +3 REBs.

How was the Stax matchup not really that bad? Without red or Drain the matchup doesn't look good on paper.

What did your sideboard look like? I'm going to test the following:
1 Volcanic Island
2 Ingot Chewer
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Yixlid Jailer
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darkblast

[beder]

Since you last posted about this deck, what happened to the Sage of Epityr/Cursecatcher slot? I assume that you decided on Mystic Remora as being the better drop.

Even if not as permanent as Sage of Epityr, Mystic remora is definitely a better U drop. It really helps during turn 1 or 1-2, which was clearly one of the previous build weakness.

I've always liked REBs/Pyroblasts to go along with Painter in this deck. In a heavy Drain meta, I could definitely see -1 Research, Misd, Commandeer for +3 REBs.

I agree, in that kind of meta I think the red splash I proposed - which is exactly the same as the one you propose - is a best option.

How was the Stax matchup not really that bad? Without red or Drain the matchup doesn't look good on paper.

IMO, there are several explanations (mainly for the U/B version):
- It has a very stable mana base and can operate only with islands,
- All your spells have low CC, spheres are painfull but "not too much"
- Painter/Stone is an easy combo to set up (you generally only have to search for grindstone)
- Hatching is very nice against smokestack
- Mystic remora can be very efficent against stacks, drawing many cards during first turn

What did your sideboard look like? I'm going to test the following:
1 Volcanic Island
2 Ingot Chewer
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Yixlid Jailer
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darkblast

Considering the U/B version with one volcanic already in main, I am trying a sideboard like this one :
1 Tormod's crypt
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Pithing needle
2 Extirpate
1 Volcanic Island
3 Red Elemental
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Rack and ruin
1 Massacre
1 Thread of disloyalty

With all those new white creatures - and aggro decks using them - I really like Massacre. I would perhaps even add one more.
Right now, I really have to think that side again, not really sure this is optimal. For instance, there is nothing in it to deal with oath.

[Tobi]

A single Engineered Explosives maindeck could help improve the aggro matchup a bit, is an out to some problematic permanents (Chalice@1 or @2) or tokens, and can be used to destroy own Hatching Plans (even multiples). Worst case it will be a permanent to scrifice to Perilous Research.

I was also working on a list incorporating Hatching Plans a few months ago and even took it to a tournament. I had Drinker of Sorrow as additional HP-enabler. Lost to workshops in 2 or 3 rounds... 

[beder]

The Engineered Explosives is a good idea, I didn't think about it! My only concern would be that painter is also 2CC...
Anyway, I will test it, perhaps in place of one perillous research or the commandeer.

[zabuza]

What about playing trinket mage as a tutor for grindstone, explosives and so. Beside of that is a permanent you can sacrify with abjure and Perilous.

[the boogie man]

I like the idea of the deck. very cool. i've been looking for a way to abuse hatching plans for a while.

The only part I don't really like is the abjure. since you have to sacrifice a blue permanent, you can't play it early like reb, for example. And reb blows up hatching plans, while also being good in multiples. and great with painter. I think countering any spell or blowing up any permanent is better than countering a spell and saccing a permanent. also has good chances to be really usefull when you want to counter something and leave remora down for the turn.

Perhaps trinket mage could replace a perilous research and commandeer. he finds combo pieces, engineered explosives, pithing needle, and a host of other goodies like relic of progenitus. he also helps with plan b: beatdown.

[M.Solymossy]

To be honest, I played against this deck a day or two ago on Magic Workstation, and I was highly unimpressed.  It's cute, but I don't think it's efficient.  I'm not sure that Remora is very good in this matchup.  I believe that Mystic Remora is a "one trick pony" that is highly ineffective now that Rich Shay and Paul Mastriano have been doing well with it, and it's a known archetype.

Just my $0.02

[beder]

To be honest, I played against this deck a day or two ago on Magic Workstation, and I was highly unimpressed.  It's cute, but I don't think it's efficient.  I'm not sure that Remora is very good in this matchup.  I believe that Mystic Remora is a "one trick pony" that is highly ineffective now that Rich Shay and Paul Mastriano have been doing well with it, and it's a known archetype.

Just my $0.02

If I remember well, you played TPS, right? If so, effectively, you won the 2 games we played.
You are right, during those 2 games, the deck was not really brilliant. But as we all know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[M.Solymossy]

To be honest, I played against this deck a day or two ago on Magic Workstation, and I was highly unimpressed.  It's cute, but I don't think it's efficient.  I'm not sure that Remora is very good in this matchup.  I believe that Mystic Remora is a "one trick pony" that is highly ineffective now that Rich Shay and Paul Mastriano have been doing well with it, and it's a known archetype.

Just my $0.02

If I remember well, you played TPS, right? If so, effectively, you won the 2 games we played.
You are right, during those 2 games, the deck was not really brilliant. But as we all know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I was actually playing my Tezzeret build with Spell Snare, that is highlighted in the Optimizing Tezzeret thread.  It is possible if I remember correctly that the Spell Snares were HUGE in the matchup.

[beder]

I was actually playing my Tezzeret build with Spell Snare, that is highlighted in the Optimizing Tezzeret thread.  It is possible if I remember correctly that the Spell Snares were HUGE in the matchup.

Right, I remember! Well, 4 spellsnares main is pretty difficult for this deck, given that Hatching, Painter and Perillous are 2CC. That's a lot.
Then, at that time, I was only testing main. No side (so no blast). But to be truly honnest, I don't know if that would have been sufficent

More generally, my point is not to say that this deck wrecks Tezz or to say that this is the new "best deck" , but to share with you this build that, according to my extended testings, has definitely a lot of potential and seems to be extremely viable.

When it comes to mystic remora, well, I like it even in this build. The main advantage being to slow down the first 2 turns, in order to be able to prepare the engine of the deck. The way I play it in this build, I do not hesitate to sacrifice it if it provides me with sufficent mana to develop my engine on board

The only part I don't really like is the abjure. since you have to sacrifice a blue permanent, you can't play it early like reb, for example. And reb blows up hatching plans, while also being good in multiples. and great with painter. I think countering any spell or blowing up any permanent is better than countering a spell and saccing a permanent. also has good chances to be really usefull when you want to counter something and leave remora down for the turn.

Abjure is definitely one of the best card of the deck - just after Hatching - the card that makes the deck interesting.
In order to illustrate that point, here is a pretty classical move (I did it several times) :
- Turn one : island + mox => Hatching Plans (another land and merchant scroll in hand)
- Turn two :  2nd land + merchant scroll => Search for abjure, not for ancestrall. Now, you should be in a pretty good situation.
Abjure is really so powerful when hatching is on board... Especially cause sacrificing is part of the cost. That means that once Hatching is on board, abjure is "Counterspell and not counterable ancestrall recall for U". Not so bad. I can't count the number of times when in a counter war, Abjure was countered but the draw 3 effect provided me with another counter (or the blue card required for the pitch counter in hand). That move is insane. To be truly honnest, if possible, that is even my prioritary objective during first turns : succeeding in having hatching on bard and abjure in hand.

Then, when painter is on board, even if not as good as red blast, it is still pretty good. Tap U, counter spell and sacrifice that off color moxen that is no longer vitale or even sacrifice the land you just tapped or sacrifice that remora that is becoming painful.

Finally, abjure is blue, which allow you to pitch it and to fetch only islands during the first turns.

Abjure is definitely among the last cards I would cut.

If you want to add red blast, as proposed in the first post, start removing some perillous research, misdirection, commandeer or other cards, before removing abjure. That would be my advice.

PS : right now, I am also testing the library in place of an island and ponder in place of commandeer. Still not sure if this is the right choice;

[A.-1.]

beder, did Mike bury you in card advantage? Considering what Snare hits and that he said Remora wasn't efficient, it seems like you got out-countered and out-drawn.

Maybe it's worth testing Sage/Cursecatcher in the Remora slot again? I don't think it would improve the Tezz matchup, but in testing I also felt that Tezz was just better. It runs as many and probably more counters/disruption slots. And it's draw engine, with the exception of Remora Tezz, isn't conditional like this deck's engine is. I even tested with 3x REBs in the main, and it wasn't getting there.

I'll have to do some more testing, but unfortunately it looks like this deck isn't quite good enough. It might be good, but if it's not on par with Tezz decks I don't see any reason to run an inferior control/combo deck.


EDIT: beder posted just as I was about to
It doesn't need to wreck or replace Tezz, just to be able to hang with it. I too believe that the deck has potential. Hopefully with some changes it can find a place alongside Tezz as an option for people who want to play a control/combo deck.

[beder]

beder, did Mike bury you in card advantage? Considering what Snare hits and that he said Remora wasn't efficient, it seems like you got out-countered and out-drawn.

Maybe it's worth testing Sage/Cursecatcher in the Remora slot again? I don't think it would improve the Tezz matchup, but in testing I also felt that Tezz was just better. It runs as many and probably more counters/disruption slots. And it's draw engine, with the exception of Remora Tezz, isn't conditional like this deck's engine is. I even tested with 3x REBs in the main, and it wasn't getting there.

I'll have to do some more testing, but unfortunately it looks like this deck isn't quite good enough. It might be good, but if it's not on par with Tezz decks I don't see any reason to run an inferior control/combo deck.


EDIT: beder posted just as I was about to
It doesn't need to wreck or replace Tezz, just to be able to hang with it. I too believe that the deck has potential. Hopefully with some changes it can find a place alongside Tezz as an option for people who want to play a control/combo deck.

To be truly honnest, I did some testings against tezz and except the build of mike, with the 4 spellsnare, it worked pretty well. Of course, the engine is conditionnal, but it is really redundant and several parts of it work alone.
For instance, one may compare perillous research with thirst : I don't say that this is as good, just that the comparison may not be stupid.
Perillous research asks for one sacrifice, that is generally a moxen you played before (and so that you were able to use as a mana source before). Thirst asks for a discard, generally that moxen you didn't play. Perillous draw 2 for U1, Thirst draw 3 for U2. Again, I don't say that perillous is as good as thirst, that would be stupid, just that in this deck (which doesn't need lot of mana to operate and so can sacrifice moxen), perillous is a reliable draw engine by itself, even without hatching.
When playing that deck, I do not wait for hatching in order to play perillous. I just use it as a regular draw engine, even if I don't have many permanents on board. I just trust the deck, to provide me with new permanents and/or mana sources. And generally, that's what it does.

Regarding the build, I would need to test it more to be able to provide you with real conclusions, especially against good players - in that case, I would also need to try to be a good player myself . Up until now, with my testings, I did not have problems with the draw engine against tezz. This was still a main strenght of the deck.

When it comes to remora, I have to say that it is a lot better than sage in those slots. It fits the tempo of this deck so well. But I perhaps would need to give a try to curscatcher, that can fulfill the same objective.

[Beralt]

Using Abjure is getting cudos from me, I like the innovation of another card being included into the vintage playable list - it is only recently that Remora has taken up a greater following among Vintage players and this gives the Remora another use.  I played around a bit with this build using Trinket mage as another Tutor/FoW pitch/Abjure sac target/Perilous sac target/beater.  And felt that it does suffer somewhat from on tempo from being able to not run Drains, it has to cast a spell to set up it's defenses, whether it's Hatching Plans, Remora or the Trinket.  Not sure how it fits into the metagame yet.  Another Blue Sac target to consider - Counterbalance?  Of course that innovation suffers from Spellsnare weakness.   Good luck keep innovating.

[beder]

Using Abjure is getting cudos from me, I like the innovation of another card being included into the vintage playable list - it is only recently that Remora has taken up a greater following among Vintage players and this gives the Remora another use.  I played around a bit with this build using Trinket mage as another Tutor/FoW pitch/Abjure sac target/Perilous sac target/beater.  And felt that it does suffer somewhat from on tempo from being able to not run Drains, it has to cast a spell to set up it's defenses, whether it's Hatching Plans, Remora or the Trinket.  Not sure how it fits into the metagame yet.  Another Blue Sac target to consider - Counterbalance?  Of course that innovation suffers from Spellsnare weakness.   Good luck keep innovating.

Thanks for the "cudos"... I am not so sure to know what it is, but it looks nice

[LordHomerCat]

Using Abjure is getting cudos from me, I like the innovation of another card being included into the vintage playable list - it is only recently that Remora has taken up a greater following among Vintage players and this gives the Remora another use.  I played around a bit with this build using Trinket mage as another Tutor/FoW pitch/Abjure sac target/Perilous sac target/beater.  And felt that it does suffer somewhat from on tempo from being able to not run Drains, it has to cast a spell to set up it's defenses, whether it's Hatching Plans, Remora or the Trinket.  Not sure how it fits into the metagame yet.  Another Blue Sac target to consider - Counterbalance?  Of course that innovation suffers from Spellsnare weakness.   Good luck keep innovating.

Thanks for the "cudos"... I am not so sure to know what it is, but it looks nice

Kudos is basically giving praise.  By offering kudos on the use of the card, he is saying that he likes it and commends you for doing it.

[beder]

Using Abjure is getting cudos from me, I like the innovation of another card being included into the vintage playable list - it is only recently that Remora has taken up a greater following among Vintage players and this gives the Remora another use.  I played around a bit with this build using Trinket mage as another Tutor/FoW pitch/Abjure sac target/Perilous sac target/beater.  And felt that it does suffer somewhat from on tempo from being able to not run Drains, it has to cast a spell to set up it's defenses, whether it's Hatching Plans, Remora or the Trinket.  Not sure how it fits into the metagame yet.  Another Blue Sac target to consider - Counterbalance?  Of course that innovation suffers from Spellsnare weakness.   Good luck keep innovating.

Thanks for the "cudos"... I am not so sure to know what it is, but it looks nice

Kudos is basically giving praise.  By offering kudos on the use of the card, he is saying that he likes it and commends you for doing it.

Thanks for this explanation, this is very clear And sorry for this "beder learns english slang" off-topic.

[TopSecret]

I must say that I like this deck idea,
but I also think there should be a way to make it a little more consistent
and slightly less explosive.

Red blasts fill the same role as some of the other deck's most narrow cards.
but are great in the majority of match ups, especially with main-deck Painters.

Perhaps there's a build that drops certain narrow cards for Red Blasts.
Of course, it would be very metagame dependent change,
but I think if done correctly, such a change could show a lot of promise.

Just looking at your list, I think that Commandeer and Misdirection could be Red Blasts.
Both are cheap counters, which Red Blasts are, too.
However, Red Blasts can activate Hatching Plans, which Commandeer and Misdirection cannot do.
They can only pitch them.
So, which is more important? Being able to pitch dead cards, or activating Hatching Plans?

[wjcuttler]

Kudos is basically giving praise.  By offering kudos on the use of the card, he is saying that he likes it and commends you for doing it.

To bring this point further off topic, I would like to know what came first: the slang term Kudos, or the granola bars by the same name?

BTW following the thread and loving the deck idea. REB sounds like a great fit for the above said reasons

[LordHomerCat]

Kudos is basically giving praise.  By offering kudos on the use of the card, he is saying that he likes it and commends you for doing it.

To bring this point further off topic, I would like to know what came first: the slang term Kudos, or the granola bars by the same name?

BTW following the thread and loving the deck idea. REB sounds like a great fit for the above said reasons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudos

"It entered English as British university slang in the early 1800s."

I'm betting the slang came a little before the granola bar...

[beder]

I must say that I like this deck idea,
but I also think there should be a way to make it a little more consistent
and slightly less explosive.

Red blasts fill the same role as some of the other deck's most narrow cards.
but are great in the majority of match ups, especially with main-deck Painters.

Perhaps there's a build that drops certain narrow cards for Red Blasts.
Of course, it would be very metagame dependent change,
but I think if done correctly, such a change could show a lot of promise.

Just looking at your list, I think that Commandeer and Misdirection could be Red Blasts.
Both are cheap counters, which Red Blasts are, too.
However, Red Blasts can activate Hatching Plans, which Commandeer and Misdirection cannot do.
They can only pitch them.
So, which is more important? Being able to pitch dead cards, or activating Hatching Plans?

Well, that's the main question :
- very stable mana base and pitch counters - with "oops effect" that I like a lot.
- less stable mana base and red blast, perhaps less explosive but more consistent

To be honnest, I keep on trying the 2 configurations and I haven't made my mine yet.

[beder]

Hi all,
Sorry for what could look like thread “necroing”, just want to share with you the latest testings and conclusions for the “abjure-hatching” deck presented below and introduced few months ago.
After many testings, I arrived at the conclusion that 2 different builds may be really viable and competitive: Ubr build and Ubg build.
Those two ones are presented below in a way that should facilitate comparison and understanding of the main differences.

Abjure-Hatching Ubg	Abjure-Hatching Ubr
++++++++++++++ // Lands     4 Polluted Delta     2 Flooded Strand     3 Underground Sea     2 Island     1 Tolarian Academy     3 Tropical Island ++++++++++++++	++++++++++++++ // Lands     4 Polluted Delta     2 Flooded Strand     3 Underground Sea     2 Island     1 Tolarian Academy     3 Volcanic Island ++++++++++++++
-- Common cards -- // Mana Acceleration     1 Black Lotus     1 Mox Sapphire     1 Mox Emerald     1 Mox Jet     1 Mox Ruby     1 Mox Pearl     1 Mana Crypt     1 Sol Ring // Tinker target     1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind // Core components     4 Abjure     4 Force of Will     4 Hatching Plans     4 Perilous Research     1 Ancestral Recall     1 Mystical Tutor     1 Brainstorm     1 Ponder     1 Merchant Scroll     1 Time Walk     1 Tinker     1 Vampiric Tutor     1 Demonic Tutor     1 Yawgmoth's Will
++ Ubg ++++++++     1 Voltaic Key     1 Time Vault     4 Mystic Remora     3 Tarmogoyf     1 Misdirection     ++++++++++++++	++ Ubr ++++++++        3 Painter's Servant      2 Grindstone          1 Spellstuter sprite         2 Red Elemental Blast     1 Pyroblast     1 Hurkyl's Recall ++++++++++++++

Ubg build: Control/ Aggro/ Combo
This build is pretty well equilibrated, not relying on the vault/key combo to win the game (that’s why there is no artifact bounce in it). Perillous research and the enchantments have a nice synergy with tarmogoyf, allowing it to grow quickly and to put pressure on opponent, while controlling with your blue disruption fed by the very efficient draw engine. One may also notice that tarmogoyf mitigates the mystic remora weakness, when it comes to handle aggro decks.

Ubr build: Control/ Combo
This build is definitely a control build, using painter/stone as a win condition. Painter may also be used as a nice blocker when it comes to handling 2/2 creatures (except that nowadays, those 2/2 creatures tend to be exalted and so 3/3…). It has many outs for the different problems it may face, thanks to the painter/blast synergy.

Matchups
- Tezz : Both of them have a pretty good matchup against tezz.
Thanks to its very efficient draw engine, the Ubg build succeed in over drawing tezz and often racing it. In that matchup, one should use its side to replace some tarmos with some other disruption.
Thanks to the red blast, the Ubr build succeed in controlling the game until it has enough protection to win.

- Storm : thanks to remora, the Ubg build has more weapons to fight storm decks, especially during first turns.

- Fish : the Ubg build is more efficient when it comes to dealing with fish builds. Tarmos really shines and null rod impact is not as important as for the Ubr build. But in both cases, this is not an easy matchup.

- Stacks: I would say that both build have difficulties with stacks. I still have to test this matchup to provide updated and relevant information

- Oath: even if the Ubr build has according to me more weapons in order to prevent oath activation, the painter/stone win condition has an intrinsic weakness against oath. I think the Ubg build has a better matchup, even to favorable.

My preference
Nowadays, my preference gors to the Ubg build, which is according to me more flexible and more “compact”. Mystic remora as a third drawing engine (first being hatching, second being perilous research) provides a very good consistency. Tarmos allow you to put pressure on opponent and diversify the threat. The tempo of the build is better than the other one, especially cause it has more efficient lines of play over the two first turns.

Conclusion: to be honest, I didn’t have any occasion to test those build in a real “tournament” context. As a consequence, I cannot affirm that it is efficient or 100%  viable in today’s metagame. But playing with it during those last months, I can say that it is a really funny deck, with insane lines of play and really consistent. Please, feel free to test it, make your own opinion and do not hesitate to ask for return on experience, when it comes to this deck’s best lines of play.

Cheers

[Tobi]

Thanks for posting this. I experimented with a Hatching Plans engine and even took it to a local tournament some time ago, and I really liked it. Back then I used Drinker of Sorrow as outlet for HP, and it worked quite well.

The UBg build looks really nice, and it does probably have a good Stax matchup since you can bring in Trygon Predator from the board.
Maybe it would make sense to replace the maindeck Tarmos with Lorescale Coatl which is blue and has great synergy with the enourmous amounts of cards that you draw. Did you already test it?

Also I think a single Darkblast maindeck would make sense to combat Selkies and Confidants.

[beder]

I tested Lorescale Coatl, here were my conclusions :
- it is blue and this is very nice,
- it can grow bigger than any other creature

... but...

3 mana is really a liability when it comes to this deck tempo (especially cause 2 have to be colored). Moreover, you have to have it on board before drawing if you want it to grow quickly. As a result, I feel more confidant with tarmo, which is minimun 4/5 when summoned, often 5/6 and frequently 6/7.

[xouman]

I tested a Ug version with Coatl and a extremely hard draw engine (hatchling plans + perilous research + read the runes + chromatic star + terrarion) with werebear as optional beater/mana source for all those spells, and results were bad. There were strong hands with fastbond, tolarian academy or mox+werebear, but the deck was very mana greedy and suffered if opponent knew what to counter.

[RecklessEmbermage]

I tested a Ug version with Coatl and a extremely hard draw engine (hatchling plans + perilous research + read the runes + chromatic star + terrarion) with werebear as optional beater/mana source for all those spells, and results were bad. There were strong hands with fastbond, tolarian academy or mox+werebear, but the deck was very mana greedy and suffered if opponent knew what to counter.

Hatching plans and perilious research are both unplayables under any sort of normal conditions (in vintage). I think you overdid it by including the eggs.

[meadbert]

Sensei's Top has a similar interaction to the eggs since you can cast Perlious Research in response to the draw activation and make a 3 for 2 swap.

[beder]

I have to say that I don't undersand the "egg thing", may be an english expression that I miss...

When it comes to sensei, as mentionned by meadbert, this card is a real contender for one slot, especially in the Ubg one (with voltaic).
First it is a permanent and can interact with perillous research.
Second, it may help finding parts of the different mini combos of which this deck is full of.

[Tobi]

I have to say that I don't undersand the "egg thing", may be an english expression that I miss...

I guess it refers to Hatching Plans, since eggs are usually hatched  

I tested a slightly modified version yesterday against ANT, and was really impressed how good the card interaction was. I was frequently able to Abjure a Hatching Plans or a Remora, and even Perilous Research without "the eggs" was nice. Having Mystic Remora onlilne and being able to keep it until one blue mana open left and still being able to counter (instead of the 2 mana you need when playing with Drains) was also very good.
So my feeling was that the core of the deck, as you nicely put it in your posting, seems to be solid.

Maybe some Spell Pierce could be added to increase the amount of counterspells. It has the same synergy with Remora as Abjure has, so it could be quite nice.

I would further like to know your opinion on Read the Runes. I played one copy (plus a Mana Vault) and always loved it.

[Zieby]

What about the UW Atog that eats Enchantments for +1/+1 and discard a card for +1/+1.

If you use Replensh you get 2 or 3 Hatching plans into play and with the Tog that means 9 extra cards in hand and allot of +1/+1.

Together with Seal and Remora and maybe Counterbalance Top, you can have a very nice deck I think.

This are just some thoughts and not tested yet.

Greetz Arjan