Risen Martyr, Glib Stratomancer, Crypt Warden...

[Marco]

Risen Martyr

Creature – Human Cleric (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Risen Martyr: The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to target creature or player this turn, prevent that damage.
Rebirth (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Glib Stratomancer

Creature – Human Wizard (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Glib Stratomancer: Target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Rebirth (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Crypt Warden

Creature – Zombie (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Crypt Warden: Remove target card in a graveyard from the game.
Rebirth (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Goblin Bloodboiler

Creature – Goblin Warrior (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Goblin Bloodboiler: Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
Rebirth (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Arboreal Guardian

Creature – Elf Druid (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Arboreal Guardian: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Rebirth (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

I'm looking for a new name/flavour for Goblin Bloodboiler.

Current Wording:

Risen Martyr
W
Creature – Human Cleric (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Risen Martyr: The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to target creature or player this turn, prevent that damage.
Rebirth 2W (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Glib Stratomancer
U
Creature – Human Wizard (Common)
1/1
Sacrifice Glib Stratomancer: Target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Rebirth 2U (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Crypt Warden
B
Creature – Human Cleric (Common)
1/1
Sacrifice Crypt Warden: Exile target card from a graveyard.
Rebirth 2B (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Goblin Rabble
R
Creature – Goblin Warrior (Common)
1/1
Sacrifice Goblin Rabble: Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
Rebirth 2R (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Arboreal Guardian
G
Creature – Elf Druid (Common)
1/1
Sacrifice Arboreal Guardian: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Rebirth 2G (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

[Matt]

The Bloodboiler name would make more sense if he gave everyone haste.

[Marco]

Well, there's Dwarven Bloodboiler...

[zeus-online]

I actually like these ones, nothing fancy, but these look alot like something you could expect from a new set (1/1 with utility)

[oneofchaos]

Isn't rebirth just a strictly superior version of unearth?

[Marco]

Isn't rebirth just a strictly superior version of unearth?

Good point.

For the record, I created rebirth before unearth and even before persist.  I called it reanimate in the beginning.

A few differences:

- When you unearth a creature it cannot be countered except by cards like Stifle.  When you play a creature by paying its rebirth cost it can be countered.
- When you unearth a creature it has haste.  When you play a creature by paying its rebirth cost it has summoning sickness.
- Creatures with unearth mostly have an unearth cost the is the same or lower than the card's casting cost.

I have considered making the rebirth cost on my cards have a higher rebirth cost than casting cost.  Afterall, rebirth is like flashback for creatures, and most cards with flashback have a higher flashback cost than casting cost.  On the other hand, creatures are the easiest permanents to deal with...

I would also counter, isn't retrace just a strictly superior version of flashback?

I'm also thinking of updating the rules text (which has a favourable side-effect of making it shorter):

You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.

This makes it more fair against bounce.

[Matt]

I would also counter, isn't retrace just a strictly superior version of flashback?

No. For example, if you have eight lands out and no hand, which is better to draw - Call of the Herd or Savage Conception?
You lose resources (cards in hand) to retrace, you don't for flashback (apart from some specific flashback costs).

[zeus-online]

Wizards makes similar abilities all the time aswell, like vanishing/fading...Or how about upkeep, cumulative upkeep and echo?

Flying/Horsemanship also comes to mind.

Bushido and flanking also seems kinda similar.

So why is it a problem if we do it?

[Matt]

It's not automatically bad to have similar mechanics, but I don't see this particular one really doing much that persist couldn't (which has much of the same "you have to kill it twice" thing going on, but also has interesting interactions with +1/+1 counters or "remove a counter" mechanics).

[Marco]

Other rebirth cards:

Anointed Knight
WW
Creature – Human Knight (Common)
2/2
First strike
Rebirth 2W (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Dead Rouser
2B
Creature – Human Wizard (Rare)
1/1
B, T: Target creature card in your graveyard gains rebirth until end of turn. The rebirth cost is equal to its mana cost. (You may play that card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When that creature leaves play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Redeemed Villain
2B
Creature – Human Rogue (Common)
2/2
When Redeemed Villain comes into play, if you played it from your graveyard, you gain 2 life.
Rebirth 2W (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

Undying Councilor
2BB
Creature – Zombie Advisor (Rare)
3/2
When Undying Councilor comes into play, you draw X cards and you lose X life, where X is the number of Zombies you control.
Rebirth BBB (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

[Marco]

Update to the red one, including render:

Goblin Rabble

Creature – Goblin Warrior (Uncommon)
1/1
Sacrifice Goblin Rabble: Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
Rebirth (You may play this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it comes into play with a death counter on it. When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had a death counter on it, remove it from the game.)

[Marco]

M10 wording update for Rebirth:

You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves the battlefield, if it had a death counter on it, exile it.

And a few new cards:

Ascendant Angel
3WW
Creature - Angel (Rare)
3/4
Flying
Ascendant Angel gets +1/+1 and has lifelink as long as it has a death counter on it.
Rebirth 4WW (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves the battlefield, if it had a death counter on it, exile it.)

Bloodthirsty Vampire
3BB
Creature - Vampire (Rare)
4/3
Flying
Bloodthirsty Vampire gets +1/+1 and has deathtouch as long as it has a death counter on it.
Rebirth 4BB (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves the battlefield, if it had a death counter on it, exile it.)

Wildfire Phoenix
3RR
Creature - Phoenix (Rare)
3/3
Flying
When Wildfire Phoenix is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, it deals 4 damage to each creature.
Rebirth 4RR (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves the battlefield, if it had a death counter on it, exile it.)

[Marco]

Does anyone think Wildfire Phoenix is too powerful?

[Matt]

Not really. They just made that exact creature except it does 3 instead of 4 and you can buy it back endlessly. It's okay as a rare.

[Marco]

And that one deals 3 damage to each creature and each player... still, 4 damage to each creature is a lot of damage...

[Matt]

So it'll be a limited bomb, and might actually be constructed playable. I don't see this as a problem, personally, especially if this winds up in a set with decent common answers (like a Safe Passage or something), and if red lacks a common or uncommon way to profitably kill this itself (I wouldn't put this in a set with, say, Fling or Fiery Conclusion).

I would probably still pick, say, Flameblast Dragon over this if they somehow showed up in the same pack.

[Marco]

So it'll be a limited bomb, and might actually be constructed playable. I don't see this as a problem, personally, especially if this winds up in a set with decent common answers (like a Safe Passage or something), and if red lacks a common or uncommon way to profitably kill this itself (I wouldn't put this in a set with, say, Fling or Fiery Conclusion)...

Actually Matt, my set has a 5-card cycle of commons that has "As an additional cost to cast ~this~, sacrifice a nonland permanent"...

Diminish

Instant (Common)
As an additional cost to cast Diminish, sacrifice a nonland permanent.
The owner of target nonland permanent shuffles it into his or her library.

Abnegate

Instant (Common)
As an additional cost to cast Abnegate, sacrifice a nonland permanent.
Return target permanent to its owner's hand.

Cripple

Instant (Common)
As an additional cost to cast Cripple, sacrifice a nonland permanent.
Target creature gets -4/-4 until end of turn.

Lacerate

Instant (Common)
As an additional cost to cast Lacerate, sacrifice a nonland permanent.
Lacerate deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

Enliven

Instant (Common)
As an additional cost to cast Enliven, sacrifice a nonland permanent.
Target creature gets +3/+3 and trample until end of turn.

[Epoch16]

Rebirth (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. When this creature leaves the battlefield, if it had a death counter on it, exile it.)

Shouldn't this reminder text read: Rebirth  (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature has a death counter on it, and would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.)

What happens if the oppenent counters the spell when its played for its rebirth cost? It goes back to the GY? That makes creatures with rebirth, at the very least, annoying to permission players. Perhaps this mechanic needs more work.

[Marco]

Yes, the reminder text for rebirth has been updated to:

(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

The official rules for rebirth are as follows:

702.XX. Rebirth

702.XXa Rebirth represents a static ability that functions while the card is in a player's graveyard. "Rebirth [cost]" means "You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If you do, this permanent enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this permanent would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else." Casting a spell using its rebirth ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.

(Question for a rules guru: Does all of the above function while the card is in a player's graveyard, or only the first part ("You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost.")? Is the rest a static ability that functions while the card is on the battlefield?)

Other details:

* Casting a card by using its rebirth ability works just like casting any other card except you're casting the card from your graveyard rather than your hand.

* A rebirth card cast from your graveyard follows the normal timing rules for creature cards.

* To cast a rebirth card from your graveyard, you must pay its rebirth cost.

* When a rebirth card you cast from your graveyard is countered, it's put back into your graveyard.

Yes, this is annoying to permission players, but my set will have answers. Including:

Repudiate
UU
Instant (Common)
Counter target creature spell. If that spell is countered this way, exile it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard.

and

"Blue" Battlemage
2U
Creature – Human Wizard (Uncommon)
2/2
W, T: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to target creature or player this turn.
B, T: Exile target card from a graveyard.

Discussion at MTGS:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=179618

[Matt]

I think Repudiate should just say, "Exile target creature spell."

[Marco]

I think Repudiate should just say, "Exile target creature spell."

You think? They didn't errata Assert Authority, Dissipate, Faerie Trickery, Liquify, etc. to read, "Exile target spell."

[Yare]

I think Repudiate should just say, "Exile target creature spell."

You think? They didn't errata Assert Authority, Dissipate, Faerie Trickery, Liquify, etc. to read, "Exile target spell."

That's because countering a spell is not the same as exiling it. A spell that is exiled is not countered; it just goes away. This can potentially be meaningful for some cards, like Guile.


I personally agree that I think it's just more eloquent to say "exile target spell" in wording this particular spell, though.

[Matt]

I think Repudiate should just say, "Exile target creature spell."

You think? They didn't errata Assert Authority, Dissipate, Faerie Trickery, Liquify, etc. to read, "Exile target spell."

In addition to Yare's point, getting it right the first time =/= errata. I mean, if you have cards that care about stuff being countered (including cards that can't be countered like, uh, Quagnoth) then that may influence your decision, but as a general rule, go with the simplest wording that accomplishes what you want (which for this card seems to be: hose reanimating creatures).

[Marco]

Point taken, but I don't think I want Repudiate to counter Great Sable Stag, Scragnoth, etc.

[Marco]

What does everyone think of this alternate reminder text for rebirth? It's shorter and would free up some space on the cards for flavor text...

(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it gains "If this creature would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.")

The official rules for rebirth would be as follows:

702.XX. Rebirth

702.XXa Rebirth is a keyword that represents a static ability that functions while the card is in a player's graveyard. "Rebirth [cost]" means "You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If you do, it gains 'If this object would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.'" Casting a spell using its rebirth ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g. The permanent the spell becomes will also have that ability (see rule 400.7a).

I like my original wording better because I am worried this would cause memory issues... (i.e., which cards with rebirth on the battlefield were cast from your hand and which cards with rebirth on the battlefield were cast from your graveyard?)

[Matt]

First off, typo in your official wording:

If you do, it gains 'If this object would leave the battlefield, if exile it instead.'"

Second, memory issues are definitely a big deal. What about:

(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it gains a death counter and "If this creature would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.")

Since this is reminder text, I don't feel bad about the fact that technically you "add" a counter, not "gain". Also, this makes the death counter just a placeholder, preventing any tricks with Power Conduit or Giant Fan. A rebirthed creature still has the "exile" ability even if you remove the counter.

[Marco]

Thanks Matt.  Corrected the typo.  And that's a good suggestion...

How about:

(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, put a death counter on it and it gains "If this creature would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.")

[Marco]

Updated Current Wording:

Rebirth [cost] (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it and gains "If this creature would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.")

[Nazdakka]

I think the green one might be a bit strong.

Would we print this?

Cool Landsearcher
GG
Sorcery
Search your library for two basic land cards, reveal them and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library and exile ~this~.

How about replacing the land search ability with something like... 'Gain 3 life', 'Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature', or 'Put a land into play from your hand'?

[Marco]

I think the green one might be a bit strong.

Would we print this?

Cool Landsearcher
GG
Sorcery
Search your library for two basic land cards, reveal them and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library and exile ~this~.

Well, there's Explosive Vegetation for 3G that puts two basic lands cards onto the battlefield (tapped) instead of into your hand...

Journey of Discovery is a common for 2G that puts two basic lands cards into your hand and is more flexible because of entwine...

Kodama's Reach is a common for 2G that puts one basic land card onto the battlefield (tapped) and one into your hand...

Primal Growth is a common for 2G that puts two basic lands cards onto the battlefield (untapped) if you sacrifice a creature...

Sprouting Vines is a common and an instant for 2G that could put more than two basic land cards into your hand...

Borderland Ranger and Civic Wayfinder only get one basic land card, but they're common, 2/2, and stay on the battlefield...

And then there's Yavimaya Elder...

I don't see a big stretch between GG and 2G...