[Article] Lets talk about TPS shall we.

[bluemage55]

You're making it sound like Ancestral is a bad play because you see 3 random cards... You're paying 1UU and -2 cards to go to +3 so effectively you're gaining +1 card Advantage.

It's actually -1 cards for a net +2 CA, because the Scroll replaces itself when grabbing Ancestral.

[MaxxMatt]

I'll post here a little great TPS result.

On 25/07, Rimini ( in Italy ) host our National Vintage Champ.
This list ended up 9° because of rating and with a 4-1-1 score.

The list is really similar to the ones discussed here.

4 USea
2 swamp
2 island
1 academy
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded strand
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
5 Moxen
1 Black lotus
1 petal
1 SRing
1 MVault
1 MCrypt

4 FoW
4 Duress
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild

2 Toa

1 Necro
1 Bargain
1 YWill
1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 SenseiTop
1 Read the runes
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
 
2 Grim Tutor
2 Intuition
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

Side
3 Mystic Remora
2 Pithing Needle
2 Hurkyl's recall
2 Extirpate
1 Tinker
1 Inkwell Leviatan
1 Sundering Titan
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Massacre


These are highlights directly from the player:

1) Intuition have been really good all day long. YWill & Threshold enhancer, can be used as tutor or as finisher in a lot of different situations.
2) He didn't face any Shaymora deck but a couple of "traditional" control decks ( tezzeret & co. ): his own sideboard have been tweeked to face them
3) He played TPS for long time, trying different versions. He didn't miss the DarkConfidant ones at all. Those TPS or Long hybrid are both more stable and explosived than Confidant based ones.
4) Read the Runes and his grave/hand/board inner interaction have been more than a simple addition. It is really strong and sinergic with the deck.



I'll add more detail about it and his performance if I can catch more hints.

Maxx

[Marske]

@MaxxMatt,
I'm very curious about how Read the Runes and Intuition performed. They seem to be counter intuitive to what the deck actually tries to do also they seem worse then having Gifts, Memory jar and Minds desire in the deck which I greatly miss in that list. Also the fact that there's a robot plan in the sideboard confuses me, either you run it and you do maindeck or you don't, I see no use in polluting your sideboard like that.

[MaxxMatt]

@Marske.

First of all, I'm sure I will not play the exact list posted over here at all IMHO, changes done don't fit my style and TPS: Gifts missing, too many mana fonts, FoF missing, MJar missing.

*    It is crucial to understand such a deck, smother and with a lower mana curve, can be more resilient in a field ( such as one played here ) full of Denial.decks. Minor the cc, minor the trouble around resolving spells. Intuition let him grab tutors, forces, rituals and achieve threshold and a cool YWill faster than ever. These are most interesting aspects around Intuition addition.
Retrospectively speaking, I will add Intuition#1 in my own build instead of Imperial Seal, my own MOST debate maindeck slot. Results and considerations about this card put on me the needed pressure and, after testing, I can assure you it is worth his own addition.

*    Read the Runes is a concrete "no" for me: another YWill enhancer in a deck FULL of tools to power up and resolve a quick & lethal YWill seem too much, too redundant. My own sensation is about rely on graveyard a lot, unbalancing TPS asset too much. Anyhow, his own report stated about how cool and strong is to set up quick YWill and win soon after. Correctly hated out, I'm sure he will have had an hard time repeating the same winning routine over and over.

*    Tinker for Inkwell is his own sideboard addition against Fish.dec and Sundering Titan the other staple Tinker target against BLlueBased multicolored decks. Not much of a shame about seeing those Robots in sideboard instead of maindecked: his own plays and TPS in general,  performed really well against the entire field, missing the needed "groove" and "better winning options" only against those opponents. These are his own words: Fish can be defeated by Inkwell and even against bicolor or three color decks, putting additional pressure on their own mana base with Titan can swing unwinnable games: killing their lands will block future come back and putting in play an almost untouchable Robot can be game over against proper decks. Putting them in side can be tricky if they will maindeck Extirpate or other spells will let you know opponents list. Post side, you can surprise them with different and unknown winning options, leaving them with their pants down

*    From my own point of view, additional tutors, low cost bombs and great skills can be the golden points being able to summarize his good result. I'm going to read & write about this tournament, here and in the proper section, because this list isn't the only one doing well during that weekend.

*    For references, this is my own actual test list.

(28)
10 Artifacts
6 (3+3) Fetchlands
5 (4+1) Rituals
4 (2+2) Basics
2 Duals
1 Academy

(7)
1 Intuition
1 MScroll
1 Tinker
1 GrimT
1 VT
1 DT
1 MT

(12)
1 Brainstorm
1 Bargain
1 Twister
1 Ponder
1 Desire
1 Necro
1 Recall
1 YWilll
1 Walk
1 Gifts
1 FoF
1 Jar

(11)
4 FoW
4 Duress
1 Rebuild
1 Chain
1 Mis-D

(2)
1 ToA
1 DSC

[Marske]

@MaxxMatt,
I agree with you on all points you stated. Intuition is a really interesting option although I'm just getting used to Seal (makes gifts really strong) and found FoF really unimpressive I might try to switch Intuition for FoF. That being said you own testing list is actually very similar to the list I currently run. You seem to have switched the mana base to include 13 lands in favor of cutting a ritual and running 6 fetch instead of my 4 and you still run misdirection where I run rebuild which seems to be just preference slots more then anything.

For reference:
TPS suggested by M. van Zundert

Lands:
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

Creatures:
1 Darksteel Colossus

Instant:
4 Force of Will
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm

Sorcery:
4 Duress
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Minds Desire
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Enchantment:
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence

Artifact:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Memory Jar
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal

[covetousrat]

I’ll state my opinion on TPS. First of all, I think TPS is very skill intensive and a very powerful deck. It can pull
 off wins from nearly every condition. However, I do have to agree with Menendian, that the player that
makes the fewer mistakes wins the match. The strength of TPS lies in the player himself as minor mistakes
leads to a game loss. The unforgiving nature of deck turns many winning position games into loses due to
mistakes. If played perfectly, I do believe TPS is still a good contender in the current meta and not as bad
as everyone perceives. I lost to Goblins 0-3 on MWS due to mistakes. Frown town.

The changes that I have made from the TPS list is
+1 Intuition (Ill play this anyday over Fact) Fact is too mana intensive, slow and random.
+1 Underground Sea over Misdirection.
I’m keeping the 2nd Cabal ritual.

[Marske]

The changes that I have made from the TPS list is
+1 Intuition (Ill play this anyday over Fact) Fact is too mana intensive, slow and random.
+1 Underground Sea over Misdirection.
I’m keeping the 2nd Cabal ritual.

I understand the replacing Fact for Intuition logic, although I cannot understand going to 4 underground sea. I'm even debating if 3 is even correct at the moment. If you want a 13th land I'm almost 99.9% convinced you want a basic...

[rilegard]

Don't you think that Frantic Search is better than Read the Runes for TPS in almost all senses?

[MaxxMatt]

Don't you think that Frantic Search is better than Read the Runes for TPS in almost all senses?

I will not compare them at all.
While FSearch is a +2/-2 will untap you Academy, RtR is usually a +X/-X can can even produce cards' advantage if you have a decent board.

Both of them can feed YWill ( cards & mana ): FSearch untap lands while RtR can draw you more cards sacrificing moxen replayable through YWill.

IMHO, at now, both of them can belong to TPS if you'll be able to optimize their use with your skills. Anyway, from a pure "play perspective" they can be considered, again, additional YWill enhancers and not game breaking spells. I don't play the deck in a so much grave intensive manner to peacefully fit them into my maindeck.

...
+1 Underground Sea over Misdirection.
...
I'm even debating if 3 is even correct at the moment. If you want a 13th land I'm almost 99.9% convinced you want a basic...
...

...or fetchland#6?

i convey with marske 4 U.Seas are a non sense & 3U.Seas can me more than the needed number. I play 2U.Seas at now and additional fetchlands and tutors don't make me miss the third at all


MaxxMatt

[Marske]

@ Everbody in this thread:
I've accepted Stormanimagus  challege and you can read all about it here:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38501.new#new

[Marske]

Sorry for the double post, but my last post wasn't really on topic so I felt like posting something new was ok.

First a bit more of-topic talking:
I've seen a lot of good responses overal to the article and I'll sure do a followup on additional side-boarding strategies and what not.

Second some on-topic talking:
Frantic Search and RtR aren't what TPS needs, these cards are actually the precise opposite of what TPS needs. TPS doesn't lack a "yawg. Will enhancer" the deck has no problem winning with Will...

The biggest thing TPS has to negate is the loss of brainstorm, now there are several cards that can help fill this role a bit better or several approaches to be taken. I currently stand by the list I suggested in my article because I feel it fits my playstyle the best. But I wouldn't dismiss other options right of the bat.

[rilegard]

Of course Frantic Search helps Yawgmoth and cabal ritual indeed, but I think that the most important effect is to recycle your hand.
If you tell me that the cost is too high for what it does or the probability to cast it soon (on turn one) is too low then I admit that there are better options.

Should cards like Impulse become the new brainstorm for TPS?

[Marske]

Impulse really doesn't dig if you come to think about it, nor does stuff like sleight of hand. I'd actually just up the tutor count instead of trying to bridge the gap between mana-bombs. You could also consider running something like Top. Although if you really want to have something to help smooth out things a bit I'd go with Sleight of hand before I'd pickup Impulse.

Frantic Search does indeed recycle your hand (well sorta) but it's effect is most likely worse then just playing the stuff you had in your hand already, as I've showed in numerous examples just topdecking 1 single card could make a "meh" hand go completly bonkers.

[policehq]

I don't see anything about Stormanimagus in that link... What is the challenge?

[Marske]

@policehq,

SOOOO, what is there left to talk about? Well, I believe the real problem with TPS becoming more popular is the play difficulty. If I had a week or two to spare I'd devote some time to writing a primer article about how to PLAY the deck, but I don't. That's what a thread really needs. How do you pilot TPS effectively at a tournament? Now I know that Stephen Q. Menendian has already written such an article, but I think he often fails at putting things in leyman's terms for the average player trying to improve his/her game by piloting something tricky like TPS. He tends to shower his articles with probability trees and statistical maps that fall on deaf ears because when many players see that sort of thing they simply stop reading. I am almost tempted to at times and I am an avid Sudoku player and love math probabilities. His most effective graphics were his "engine" trees where he discussed the various cards in the deck that can serve as a path to a lethal tendrils. Those actually illustrated something very clearly about HOW IN THE HECK DO I PLAY THIS DECK?!!!

That final question is what needs to be elaborated on in a new article or thread. For lovers of TPS like myself it pains me to see the deck remain great in theory, but never really come through in practice. I firmly believe that, if the deck were piloted more effectively by more players it would make an impact on the drain-heavy meta-game we currently find ourselves in. The unrestriction of Crop Rotation may help to facilitate this transition a bit. If Stax Prison or Workshop Aggro decks catch on then I believe that Mystic Remora will take a turn for the worse as its strategy of just sitting back while the opponent plays spells will fall short against recurring Wasteland or Strip Mine. It will fall short against the Anti-Shop, Anti-Tezz Aggro decks that are popping up all over the place, and finally TPS will be relieved of one the greatest threats to its existence. However, this is not a cop out. I DO believe TPS can beat Mystic Remora. I just think it is very difficult to do so at a long Vintage event when there are so many opportunities to screw up over such a long period of time.

Anyway, I'd like people's thoughts on how to PLAY TPS optimally and, in plain english (ya know, with anecdotal evidence and/or clear, logical explanations), not crazy number-speak.

Peace-

Stormanimagus

I bolded out some of the really important questions