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Prometheon
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« on: June 18, 2009, 11:09:15 pm » |
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Thirst is restricted! E-tutor, Crop Rotation, and Entomb are unrestricted!
Does this mean a White Vault-Key deck will emerge with E-tutor and Argivian Find? Will Crucible get out of hand with 8 ways to get a Strip Mine into play or the graveyard? Will the loss of Thirst kill Tezzeret, or will Enlightened Tutor force it to adopt white as well? Will Smennen's Parfait deck finally become good?
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Ufactor
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 11:16:12 pm » |
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1) Tez remains exactly the same. The Remora/Confidant version was better.
2) Restricting Thirst is a non issue. None of the problem decks ran TfK, anyway. The only thing this does is cripple the possibility for any non-Tez decks, such as Control Slaver.
3) Crop Rotation, huh? That is Strip Mine x5. This also lets Ichorid find Bazaar without a mulligan.
4) Enlightened Tutor ..nevermind finding Vault pieces. How about turn2 Trinisphere??
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Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But, please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around ...and please don't shove it down my children's throats.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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LotusHead
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Team Vacaville
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 11:17:39 pm » |
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http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/43dI guess we sometime get what we ask for, not what we wanted. Announcement Date: June 19, 2009 Effective Date: July 1, 2009 Vintage Thirst for Knowledge is restricted Crop Rotation is no longer restricted Enlightened Tutor is no longer restricted Entomb is no longer restricted Grim Monolith is no longer restricted
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 11:20:35 pm » |
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Perhaps we should save WOTC some work in managing their b/r lists and eliminate blue from new sets entirely?
I actually always had a blast trying to play slaver in metagames it was long dead in. Now it's really dead. I mean super dead.
Thirst seriously needed to be restricted? I don't want to have to start playing mulldrifters people...
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?
"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 11:24:21 pm » |
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Crop rotation is a fucking mistake. I'll no longer be going to Gencon or to Philly.
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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Ufactor
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 11:24:38 pm » |
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The way I see it Shop decks and Ichorid were already good and didn't need any help. This announcement doesn't give any opportunites for new combo or control decks. Better luck next year  |
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Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But, please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around ...and please don't shove it down my children's throats.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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Implacable
I voted for Smmenen!
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 11:25:08 pm » |
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Jesus fucking Christ... TfK? Really? Seriously? And Crop Rotation? Actually... Reserved judgement. But TfK? REALLY?
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Jay Turner Has Things To SayMy old signature was about how shocking Gush's UNrestriction was. My, how the time flies. 'An' comes before words that begin in vowel sounds. Grammar: use it or lose it
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:01 pm » |
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Jesus fucking Christ... TfK? Really? Seriously? And Crop Rotation? Actually... Reserved judgement. But TfK? REALLY?
Yea. It was too format distorting apparently. This is a bigger shock than finding out your Revan in KOTOR! Well we now have crucible.striplock.dec I guess belcher gets better? |
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?
"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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Implacable
I voted for Smmenen!
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 11:30:57 pm » |
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Jesus fucking Christ... TfK? Really? Seriously? And Crop Rotation? Actually... Reserved judgement. But TfK? REALLY?
Yea. It was too format distorting apparently. This is a bigger shock than finding out your Revan in KOTOR! Well we now have crucible.striplock.dec I guess belcher gets better? Dragon? EDIT: I mean, Crop Rot., if you like, and Entomb? Nice? EDIT DEUCE: Crop Rot sounds like a condition. |
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Jay Turner Has Things To SayMy old signature was about how shocking Gush's UNrestriction was. My, how the time flies. 'An' comes before words that begin in vowel sounds. Grammar: use it or lose it
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M.Solymossy
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Sphinx of The Steel Wind
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 11:31:28 pm » |
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Um, anything with strip mine, basically. Crucible is now a must-counter.
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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OwenTheEnchanter
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 11:31:41 pm » |
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The restriction of Thirst for Knowledge is just proof that the people who decide the banned and restricted list know nothing about vintage.
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IDK why you're looking for so much credibility: You top 8ed a couple tournaments. Nice Job! |
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Smmenen
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 11:34:19 pm » |
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They could have restricted Drain instead....
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Ufactor
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 11:35:14 pm » |
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Entomb, Crop Rotation...Leyline of the Void just went up ten dollars..
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Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But, please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around ...and please don't shove it down my children's throats.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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Yare
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Playing to win
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 11:38:33 pm » |
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They could have restricted Drain instead....
This was my thought. They may not have wanted to do that because it will be coming out in FtV.  (Or not, I'm just speculating; don't derail the whole thread on this). |
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 11:38:48 pm » |
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They could have restricted Drain instead....
Well they could have except that: The restriction of Thirst for Knowledge is just proof that the people who decide the banned and restricted list know nothing about vintage.
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?
"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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Ufactor
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2009, 11:41:48 pm » |
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Restricting drain would have been somewhat logical considering that you no longer take five burn from countering FoW.
EDIT: This is probably the shortest restricted list, since, like Antiquities.
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 11:49:36 pm by Ufactor »
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Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But, please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around ...and please don't shove it down my children's throats.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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T00L
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Has Been
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2009, 11:52:32 pm » |
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The restriction of Thirst for Knowledge is just proof that the people who decide the banned and restricted list know nothing about vintage.
Obviously they should make all of their format defining decisions by watching cash vintage 3 on 3s at pro tours  In all seriousness though I didn't even think thirst was that good so this change just seems wicked random and doesn't actually effect the metagame in the least bit. |
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I like my Magic decks like I like my relationships. Abusive.
Team GGs: We welcome all types of degeneracy!
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OwenTheEnchanter
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 11:57:57 pm » |
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They could have restricted Drain instead....
Yeah that would have been equally terrible, what's your point? The restriction of Thirst for Knowledge is just proof that the people who decide the banned and restricted list know nothing about vintage.
Obviously they should make all of their format defining decisions by watching cash vintage 3 on 3s at pro tours In all seriousness though I didn't even think thirst was that good so this change just seems wicked random and doesn't actually effect the metagame in the least bit. No kidding, half of the winning Tez lists didn't even play Thirst so... |
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IDK why you're looking for so much credibility: You top 8ed a couple tournaments. Nice Job! |
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nataz
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 12:03:04 am » |
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I'm actually really excited to play with crop rotation and entomb. Stax seemed to just get redic with crop rotation, entomb both finding strip, and grim monolith powering out early crucibles. 5 color land, Mox -> grim ->crucible. t2 crop rotate/entomb for strip. Profit? E-tutor in multiples seems good as well. Black lotus, time vault, key, etc.
Mono Black Dragon as a budget deck seems doable with 4x entomb since land, rit, entomb + animate is pretty easy to do. Add in Duress, Unmask, thoughtseize, tutors, etc. I'm most excited about crop rotation in ichorid. huzzah. It's also good against ichorid though, since you can get strip up so early now.
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 12:06:36 am by nataz »
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I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
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Schonkreuz
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*<:3=
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2009, 12:09:02 am » |
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I didn't read what everyone else posted but....TFK, really? Like I didn't even think that needed to be restricted at all, like seriously. I'll post something more thoughtful later, I'm not even upset just confused.
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A proud member of the Something 2 Do staff  "Like" us on Facebook~ |
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Smmenen
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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2009, 12:09:41 am » |
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I think the announcement is awesome. I think that unrestricting Crop Rotation is probably wrong, but if Stax is the best deck, that can only be a good change from the current absurd Mana Drain dominance. There is an upper limit to how good Stax can be, even with 4 Crop Rotations.
These are really smart changes, and I look forward to seeing the metagame going forward and analyzing them further in my article on Monday.
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2009, 12:13:59 am » |
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I think the announcement is awesome. I think that unrestricting Crop Rotation is probably wrong, but if Stax is the best deck, that can only be a good change from the current absurd Mana Drain dominance. There is an upper limit to how good Stax can be, even with 4 Crop Rotations.
These are really smart changes, and I look forward to seeing the metagame going forward and analyzing them further in my article on Monday.
I can understand strengthening stax, but why was the restriction of thirst warranted? As Owen said, half of the lists are now playing a dark confidant/mystic remora shell. They seem to be winning about equally, tho those results should be further analyzed. Why not find the common thread between tezz decks and sever it? Why choose one deck and hurt it while leaving everything else intact? |
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?
"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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Metman
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2009, 12:15:38 am » |
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. Thirst? Really? I can see making a case for unrestricting Crop, Entomb, ET, and GM, but restricting Thirst? I guess we'll have to find another blue draw engine to bust. I'm making a prediction right now that Intuition will be the next card that gets restricted.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2009, 12:17:37 am » |
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I think the announcement is awesome. I think that unrestricting Crop Rotation is probably wrong, but if Stax is the best deck, that can only be a good change from the current absurd Mana Drain dominance. There is an upper limit to how good Stax can be, even with 4 Crop Rotations.
These are really smart changes, and I look forward to seeing the metagame going forward and analyzing them further in my article on Monday.
I can understand strengthening stax, but why was the restriction of thirst warranted? As Owen said, half of the lists are now playing a dark confidant/mystic remora shell. Because that's factually untrue. |
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Tha Gunslinga
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De-Errata Mystical Tutor!
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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 12:19:57 am » |
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Thirst decks have been dominant off and on since it was printed. This is definitely warranted. Crop Rotation will not ruin Vintage.
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Don't tolerate splittin'
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Razvan
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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2009, 12:22:00 am » |
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Well, as Smennen says, at least they didn't hit Mana Drain. Although if Mana Drain goes, Bazaar and Shop will follow, and that will probably be the end of magic.
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Insult my mother, insult my sister, insult my girlfriend... but never ever use the words "restrict" and "Workshop" in the same sentence...
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Raph Caron
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aka K-Run
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« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2009, 12:24:16 am » |
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Less drawing, more tutoring. Smmenen's Parfait is arguably better, not because of E. Tutor, but because of Aven Mindcensor which got way better.
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Cards I wish were restricted : Brainstorm, Mana Drain, Dark Ritual, Mishra's Workshop, Bazaar of Baghdad. Down to four!
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LordHomerCat
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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2009, 12:27:50 am » |
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Awesome. So Tez will still be the best deck, but will be even more random and uncontrollable. Clearly any sort of consistancy is a bad thing, so now I guess I'll just have to find more random restricted 1-ofs to play. Thanks.
Also, those other cards are likely trash. Crop Rotation is probably playable but the best the others can hope for is Entomb spawning a really annoying dragon deck. Oh boy.
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Team Meandeck Team Serious LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
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senpai
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Hmmm...
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2009, 12:38:16 am » |
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wow i cant believe they just nailed another blue draw engine. wtf? this is ridiculous. why am i even playing now.
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Team Black Gold: We're the people you'll see at the head of the table.
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Necrologia
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2009, 12:39:04 am » |
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Awesome. So Tez will still be the best deck, but will be even more random and uncontrollable. Clearly any sort of consistancy is a bad thing, so now I guess I'll just have to find more random restricted 1-ofs to play. Thanks.
Also, those other cards are likely trash. Crop Rotation is probably playable but the best the others can hope for is Entomb spawning a really annoying dragon deck. Oh boy.
I could also see Crop Rotation giving birth to an even better version of Mana Ichorid. Crop Rotation for Bazaar, Strip, or something like Dyrad Arbor seems possible. Wizards seems to have chosen helping decks that beat Drains, rather than restricting Drains themselves. Seems like a viable approach, I just wish there was a little more combo love. |
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This space for rent, reasonable rates
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