Swans in Vintage?

[Lurker101]

There is a deck in extended right now that revolves around Swans of Brynn Argol and Chain of Plasma which allows you to draw your entire deck 3 cards at a time as long as you discard a card each time to copy chain of plasma. I know it's kind of a long shot but does anyone think this combo could work in vintage maybe to power out a massive storm (it fills the yard really well too)? You could use drain to get swans out and then chain them next turn and just go off from there. Does anyone think this is viable? I think it's a really cool combo but I'm unsure how well it would work in vintage. Does anyone have any ideas for a shell or a decklist? I have a decklist that I'll post after some testing.

[Schonkreuz]

Although I wasn't being serious about the deck at all I played swans at my local tournament before. I used tendrils as the win and won easy by turn three...most of the time. It was clunky, and due to a large amount of aggro decks it got a bit awkward. I'm not saying it wasn't fun though, just probably couldn't be considered a "serious" deck.

[Lurker101]

Although I wasn't being serious about the deck at all I played swans at my local tournament before. I used tendrils as the win and won easy by turn three...most of the time. It was clunky, and due to a large amount of aggro decks it got a bit awkward. I'm not saying it wasn't fun though, just probably couldn't be considered a "serious" deck.

What was your list? (If you don't mind posting it)

[Schonkreuz]

I don't have it on hand right now, I should be able to find the paper I scribbled it on by the end of the night. If not I'll try and just remember it and post it by the end of the night.

[TopSecret]

Since it's slower and more clunky than some of the other win conditions,
the only situations I know of where it could be viable are:

1) If Null Rod or artifact kill are everywhere, and people don't play answers to the Swan kill as a result.

2) If you play it as a plan B win condition in a deck that takes advantage of having access to a four mana 4/3 flyer and a two mana burn spell.

Bomberman is one comparison I would use for this idea, since Auriok Salvagers isn't great on it's own,
but it was good in a midrange control deck that could benefit from it's abilities and in a metagame it fit in.

So, to answer your original question, yes,
but probably only in a deck tailored for a specific metagame.

[Beralt]

Here is a legacy version of Swans from Deckcheck from a tourney from May of this year - could use this is a jumping off point - obviously changes:
-3 Brainstorms
-3 Ponders
+1 Ancestral
+1 Time Walk
Maybe drop the Mongooses, add Drains and change the mana base up to incorporate Lotus, Sol Ring & Moxen etc.

4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Swans of Bryn Argoll
4 Tarmogoyf
instant [21]
4 Brainstorm
3 Chain of Plasma
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Storm
1 Wipe Away
sorcery [3]
3 Ponder
enchantment [4]
4 Counterbalance
artifact [3]
3 Sensei's Divining Top
land [18]
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
3 Wooded Foothills
60 cards
Sideboard:
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Tormod's Crypt
15 cards

Not sure if it's better then some other kills but probably doable on budget build - curious if anyone wants to do any testing.

[Eastman]

I don't think you want counterbalance, it's sort of too slow for type 1.

I could see it being alright as a combo deck that also packs tons of creature destruction in the form of lightning bolt, chain of plasma, and etc.   I think you'd want to use Oath of Druids as an alternate way to get the Swan into play. Cut the goyfs and mongooses - if you're playing combo you want to play combo.  And you would really like to be able to find chain of plasma easily so you should find room for mystical tutor and maybe intuition. 

[Beralt]

I like the Oath shell idea, Intuitions & Mystical Tutor would be more excellent choices. 

Counterbalance has not seen much play in vintage but I think has been explored, agreed in that it's too slow but might still find a home.

Just posting this list as a jumping off point mostly, would love to see someone with some real teeth take a hearty bite and tell us if it's bitter or sweet.

[Eastman]

Counterbalance has not seen much play in vintage but I think has been explored, agreed in that it's too slow but might still find a home.

Conceded

[Lurker101]

Here's my list, it's not complete by any means and hasn't been tested very much but so far the build works at least. You either oath up or drain into the swans and then tutor for Chain of Plasma and fill your hand and graveyard with useful things and go off. I think it may need more artifact mana and I think adding Manamorphose would be a good idea here but I don't know what to cut. Also crop rotation into Forbidden Orchard would be nice. Here's the list.

Lands: 20
4 Volcanic Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Forbidden Orchard

Creatures: 2
Swans of Bryn Argoll

Other spells:
3 Chain of Plasma
1 Black Lotus
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
5 Moxen
2 Duress
3 Intuition
1 Krosan Reclamation
4 Oath of Druids
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Time Walk

//Sideboard:
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Lightning Bolt (extra draw and also kills goyfs and such)
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroclasm (against fish and it draws you cards with swans out)
1 Progenitus
2 Crucible of Worlds  (against strip mine strategies)

[2nd_lawl]

what is the point of the tendrils kill?

If you are drawing your entire deck, Just play a 1 of Firestorm instead of lightining storm or tendrils.

[Lurker101]

what is the point of the tendrils kill?

If you are drawing your entire deck, Just play a 1 of Firestorm instead of lightining storm or tendrils.

Touche, I'll try that. Revamp the list and post it hopefully tomorrow. The only problem I could see is oathing up to many cards into the yard but that can be fixed with a few Gaea's Blessings.

[dark burn]

Firestorm doesnt work that way.  You have to have a legal target for each of cards discarded.

[2nd_lawl]

Firestorm doesnt work that way.  You have to have a legal target for each of cards discarded.

oops, well you can just play seismic assault instead, winning with your entire deck in your hand should be easy and optimally only require 1 "dead" card.

Edit: conflagrate is even better.

[theLastGnu]

Grapeshot seems sufficient as the kill if you're drawing your entire deck.

Edit: conflagarate does seem better after seeing 2nd_lawl's edit

[Tempus]

Tell me why Grapeshot should be better than Tendrils? I mean you just need to Storm to 9 to get a lethal ToA, why Storming to 19 instead? With Tendrils you can get those random Turn 3-5 Wins without any Oath/Swan to Stick.

@Lurker: Do you really want to play 20 Lands, no basics and just 4 Fetch? Shoudn't 1-2 Volcanics, 2 Tropicals and 3 U. Sea be enough with the 4 Orchards? Why not play more Acc instead (M. Crypt + Vault, Sol Ring, Petal). It's also easier to Storm. A Ponder can be added as well.

[Lurker101]

Alright, I took some of your suggestions and made a new list.
Here it is with Conflagrate as the main win condition and Tendrils in the SB along with Progenitus for alternate wins. I am playing no basics because with the number of crop rotation into strip mine that I'm expecting it won't matter if your lands are basic or not. It's also easy to play this deck on a budget if you cut the drains for Negates and play with Chrome Moxes and Mox Diamonds but if you play with diamonds then Fastbond + Crucible is a must include. Anyway, here's the list.

//Lands 15
2 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Frobidden Orchard

//Creatures: 2
2 Swans of Bryn Argoll

//Other Spells: 43
3 Chain of Plasma
1 Black Lotus
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
1 Mox jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
4 Duress
3 Intuition
1 Krosan Reclamation
4 Oath of Druids
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Time Walk
1 Rebuild
1 Conflagrate
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Ponder

//Sideboard:
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Shattering Spree
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroclasm
1 Progenitus
1 Rebuild
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Pithing Needle

I still feel the deck can be improved and if anyone wants to test it please post what you think back here. I'll also be testing it more and will post my results.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Check out my man Jake's list here:
http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=992

[Lurker101]

Check out my man Jake's list here:
http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=992

Sweet List! What do you think of the combo Oath variant?

[Cavius The Great]

Here's my list, it's not complete by any means and hasn't been tested very much but so far the build works at least. You either oath up or drain into the swans and then tutor for Chain of Plasma and fill your hand and graveyard with useful things and go off. I think it may need more artifact mana and I think adding Manamorphose would be a good idea here but I don't know what to cut. Also crop rotation into Forbidden Orchard would be nice. Here's the list.

Lands: 20
4 Volcanic Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Forbidden Orchard

Creatures: 2
Swans of Bryn Argoll

Other spells:
3 Chain of Plasma
1 Black Lotus
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
5 Moxen
2 Duress
3 Intuition
1 Krosan Reclamation
4 Oath of Druids
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Time Walk

//Sideboard:
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Lightning Bolt (extra draw and also kills goyfs and such)
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroclasm (against fish and it draws you cards with swans out)
1 Progenitus
2 Crucible of Worlds  (against strip mine strategies)

Why are you not running Recoup in this list? Seems like a nice plan to Recoup a Yawg Win to cast a Chain of Plasma in your yard, after Oathing out a Swan. That being said, I'd probably cut the Swan count to 1.

[Lurker101]

Yeah, I cut a swan for a recoup, good idea. I need to get some testing done now though. I may also end up adding another krosan reclamation if the recoup doesn't work out.

[CJster]

Have you thought to use Conflagrate or Lightning Storm as a kill. 

Making the list UR will clean up the manabase

Here is a core of what I would use if I had to make a list like this
   
1   Inkwell Leviathon
4   Swans of Brynn Argol
1   Razormane Masticore

4   Chain of Plasma
4   Force of Will
4   Mana Drain
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Brainstorm
1   Lightning Storm

1   Time Walk
1   Ponder
1   Tinker
1   Conflagrate

5   Mox
1   Black Lotus
1   Mana Crypt
1   Mana Vault

4   Volcanic Island
4   Flooded Strand
5   Island
1   Mountain
2   Polluted Delta


From here it is fairly customizable. Add bounce, remora's, standstills, null rods, cotv's...or splash another color.

It is a fun combo but not competitive against a vault/key meta....

[silvernail]

I'd have to hazard a guess that using oath with swans is counter intuitive. Why ? I'd rather run a single Eternal Witness and grab yawg will to fuel a tendrils win than waste time with swans + chain.

I'm not saying Swans is trumped by such an oath deck, but rather that Swans should not be in an oath deck that dumps the cards swans would draw into the graveyard instead. Add some blessings in there or use a different build altogether is what I'd recommend.

[Beralt]

Really like the painter list with the transformational sideboard into Swans - would like to see a tourney report for that deck.