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Author Topic: does necromancy's oracle make it a triggered ability?  (Read 2256 times)
TheRogue
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« on: June 23, 2009, 08:21:26 pm »

I was playing worldgorger dragon in a tournament a while back and i did a suicide play where i had only bazaar in play and the worldgorger dragon combo was going. so as in this combo i milled myself down to a oona queen of the fae. i try to bring into into play and my opponent krosan gripped the necromancy. so it left me wondering what would of resulted if i had used a caller of the claw instead of oona and necromancy entered play. (i know what would of happened with caller of the claw but it hinges on necromancy's rulings)

my logic is this based on the oracle text it sounds like necromancy works as a triggered ability upon entering play. in the underlined section below. i'm guessing based on other cards with that wording.

Oracle text: You may play Necromancy any time you could play an instant. If it was played any time a sorcery couldn't have been played, it gains substance until end of turn and when it loses substance, sacrifice it.
When Necromancy comes into play, if it's in play, it becomes an Aura with "enchant creature put into play with Necromancy." Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control and attach Necromancy to it. When Necromancy leaves play, that creature's controller sacrifices it.

second i'm guessing since its my turn's main phase my opponent can't play krosan grip till i end my action with the stack with necromancy returning to play and its becomes and aura clause attempting to go into effect and placing itself on the stack.

so with that on the stack can't a creature still come into play even though the necromancy is being destroyed? or can they respond sooner to prevent this from bringing a creature back into play?

another question while i'm at this, is can you stifle necromancy's leave play clause so you don't have to sacrifice the creature?
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Clariax
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 02:19:44 am »

Quote
When Necromancy comes into play, if it's in play, it becomes an Aura with "enchant creature put into play with Necromancy." Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control and attach Necromancy to it. When Necromancy leaves play, that creature's controller sacrifices it.

This is a triggered ability.  There is no time to destroy necromancy after it comes into play before this triggered ability goes on the stack.  However, the trigger has an intervening "if" clause, "if it's in play."  The if clause must be true at the time of the trigger event for the ability to trigger (which in this case it is), but it must also be true when the ability resolves or else the ability will not do anything.  So if Necromancy is destroyed while it's ability is on the stack, it won't bring the target into play.

Quote
another question while i'm at this, is can you stifle necromancy's leave play clause so you don't have to sacrifice the creature?

The comes into play triggered ability sets up a delayed triggered ability that triggers when necromancy leaves play.  this can be stifled, yes.
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Aaron Cutler
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TheRogue
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 10:23:34 pm »

i need another ruling on this annoying card.

based on what this says...

Oracle text: You may play Necromancy any time you could play an instant. If it was played any time a sorcery couldn't have been played, it gains substance until end of turn and when it loses substance, sacrifice it.

if you cast it at the END OF TURN step or phase, will it retain substance until the end of the FOLLOWING TURN?

this seems like a easy shot to cast on your opponents turn and be able to beat them with the creature provided it stays in play.
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LordHomerCat
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 02:14:21 am »

Substance is leaving the game with the next Oracle Update so I would wait until then to see how it will be worded.
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wiley
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 04:20:14 pm »

That wouldn't work as it is worded now.  If you cast necro after eot effects go on the stack it still gains substance.  Substance lasts until end of turn, which means after you discard down to seven and remove all damage from all creatures substance goes away and you have to sacrifice necro and thereby the creature.

It still won't work after the new wording as substance leaves during the cleanup step, which is when the card will say to sac it with the new wording.
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 04:01:05 pm »

While we're on the subject, can you confirm that Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead can be misdirected since the oracle wording is now "Enchant creature card in the graveyard" while Necromancy cannot be misdirected?

Also, can you confirm that you need to select the target of Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead as the spell is being cast, while Necromancy waits until it resolves and is put on the battlefield?  For example, if they "crypt" your graveyard in response to the spell being cast, then with Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead, I presume you can't bazaar afterwards and pick a new creature but you could with Necromancy?
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Clariax
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 01:43:01 am »

Your are correct on each point.  Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead are each auras, so target when cast.  If Animate Dead's or Dance of the Dead's target is not there when it resolves, it's countered on resolution.  Necromancy has a targeted ability that triggers when it enters the battlefield.


While we're on the subject, can you confirm that Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead can be misdirected since the oracle wording is now "Enchant creature card in the graveyard" while Necromancy cannot be misdirected?

Also, can you confirm that you need to select the target of Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead as the spell is being cast, while Necromancy waits until it resolves and is put on the battlefield?  For example, if they "crypt" your graveyard in response to the spell being cast, then with Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead, I presume you can't bazaar afterwards and pick a new creature but you could with Necromancy?

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Aaron Cutler
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