New to Vintage--UB Suicide Disruption

[Bill_Murray]

Ok, so I'm new to Vintage, but I thought I'd give it a shot. Here is something I just made up, so feel free to tell me what's wrong with it. Basically, the idea is to strip them of as many key cards as possible, even at the sake of card advantage, and draw back into it with Dark Confidant.


 I'm also looking for any kind of mass removal that I could side in against fish and other disruption aggro decks. Essentially anything playable that can get me a two or three for one would be nice.



UB Suicide

Win
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Negator
1 Inkwell Leviathian

Disruption
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
1 Balance
3 Mana Drain

Draw, tutors, and other
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Night's Whisper
1 Gush
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Swamp

The sb could also use some work since I'm not totally sure what to play.
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth

[the boogie man]

instead of negator, have you looked into tombstalker? 5/5 flyer for 2-3 seems awesome. Also, null rod should be in basically any aggro deck that can support it. It is far too good right now to pass up.

Then, I'd cut the balance and the accompanying w lands for some strip-waste love. these won't work with the drains, considering you need two blue mana up early, but I think drains are a little out of place anyway. You probably have better things to be doing than sitting and waiting for a spell to counter. probably negate is a good sub. With either confidant or tombstalker down, every turn you gain is huge. perhaps stifle or spell snare could be worked in?

And if there is any way to fit force of will in, do it. even if you have to remove the unmask. countering the spell for free makes them pay the mana for the card, wasting resources, even though it is card disadvantage.

[Bill_Murray]

I actually had Tombstalker in the original version, but took it out because of how bad it is against Mana Drain. Personally, I like Tombsatlker's evasion better because the only time trample would be relevant is when I'm saccing perms to get damage in... Tombstalker may make another appearance yet.

As much as I love Null Rod, I decided against it because I really wanted Top in here for Confidant. I know that Top is pretty slow, but I was figuring that with this much disruption, I can stand that. I have liked Top a lot so far.

Cutting balance is probably right.

Mana Drain is pretty out of place, I'll admit. My thinking was that I could play lots of disruption turns 1-3, and then lay a Confidant and ride it to victory, or lay turn 1 confidant and protect it from there via Drain or Discard.  Basically, since most of these spells are so cheap to play, it wouldn't be too hard to keep double blue open. This is how it's played out so far; is my logic wrong?


Thanks for the suggestions. I don't want it to look like I'm not going to take advice; just voicing my thoughts. I'm fully prepared to accept that I'm probably wrong, as I am new.

[the boogie man]

I really just think that you have enough room for the waste/strip package, and I am also thinking that you will win more games with denial + beats. If you don't like rod, chalice of the void is a fine substitute. it does not prevent vault, but it is faster and free. but the point I'm getting at is that with all of the aggressive disruption, it may be a bad idea to sit around with 2 u open.

Your life total looks like it would get jacked up by your deck. Have you thought about trinket mage in place of night's whispers? that way you could cut down on the tops (maybe to 2?) and save your life total, and have beats as well. and as long as we are on the subject, stifle + dreadnaught is a vicious combo, and those could replace  tombstalker and enhance mana denial. here are the kind of changes I'm talking about:

-3 negator
-4 nights whispers
-1 divining top
-3 drain

+4 trinket mage
+4 stifle
+2 dreadnaught
+1 engineered explosives

-4 unmask
+4 force of will

-1 balance
-1 tundra
-1 scrubland
-1 mire
+1 strip mine
+3 wasteland (4th in the side)

-1 tinker
-1 inkwell (move both to side for certain matchups, just because the life loss from confidant seems unbearable along with thoughtseize. plus, dreadnaught gives you a giant beater for cheap. I could be wrong on this one.)
-1 duress (you do have a lot of disruption)
+3 chalice (3 allows you to get 1 off at 0 and probably not see another in a long time, while still allowing you to see it fairly early)

this would make the deck a little more tempo oriented with a strong finish, which is what I think you are going for. The trinket mages are beaters and also find your 12/12 monster, as well as things like relic of progenitus (which I may consider running over will in this deck, it doesn't seem like will would be terribly gamebreaking.) and stuff from the board.

I also think beats go along really well with a decnt mana denial plan, which this deck definitely would have.

[2nd_lawl]

Unmask is bad, and 7 Creatures isnt enough.

if you really want 10-12 discard spells then either cabal therapy or hymn to tourach are both better then unmask. Balance doesent belong in this deck (balance + discard?) and theres no compelling reason to run white.  3 Top is bad, They should be null rod or chalice of the void. Gush doesent belong here Cut scrubland and tundra  mox emerald and Mox pearl + tinker and colossus for more swamps and dark rituals. ZThe play you want to make with this deck turn 1 is Swamp, ritual, duress effect, Bob.

[covetousrat]

Hi this is the deck im currently playing on MWS and did pretty well vs drains, remora etc. Suicide means ritual. Ritual means tendrils. Initially i started the deck with Leyline OTV + Helm combo but theyre too clunky. This is the best version so far. Combo+Control. Tendrils and Time vault.

4 Polluted delta
1 Island
2 Swamps
4 Underground sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 BLoodstained mire

5 Moxes
1 Black lotus
1 Mana vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 SOl ring

1 Tezzerat
4 Dark confidant
1 Inkwell Leviathan/DSC

1 TIme vault
1 Necropotence
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fact or fiction
1 Thirst for knowledge
3 THoughtseize
3 Duress
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Voltaic key
1 Yawgmoths will
1 Senseis divining top
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
4 Dark ritual
1 TInker
1 Ancestral recal
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Demonic tutor
2 Tendrils of agony
1 Echoing truth
1 Gift ungiven
1 Fact or ficiton
1 Time walk
1 Cabal ritual
1 Imperial seal

[Lurker101]

If you really want to strip your opponent of resources I would suggest a Bitter Ordeal deck. The gravestorm ability makes it virtually uncounterable and it can go off one ritual and you can reach critical gravestorm really easily. The only problem deck right now is fish where they have several win conditions but that can be dealt with in the sideboard.
Here's a sample list (PM me if you want more bitter ideal lists, I have around 4 of them):
//Lands: 16
2 Swamp
1 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
4 Polluted delta
2 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Rifstone portal

//Creatures: 8
3 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Salvage Titan (creates Gravestorm of 3 when his alternate casting cost is used)

//Other Spells: 36
4 Bitter ordeal
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Smallpox
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Fastbond
2 Crop Rotation
4 Chromatic Star
1 Balance
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Necropotence

with all the fetches/waste strip/Salvage Titan/Smallpox/Black Lotus/Lotus Petal/ Deeds/ Balance/and crop rotations it's very very easy to create a massive gravestorm and you should really only need to storm for two against most decks (In case the first copy gets countered you want 2 back ups because alot of decks only run very few win conditions and you could take Tendrils, Inkwell or Time Vault, Inkwell or Oath targets). You can also get fastbond+ crucible + strip mine out for mana disruption and gravestorm. The sensei's Divining Top is there so you don't accidently draw Salvage Titan off Confidant. Also there is no shame in wasting your own riftstone portal for mana fixing if you need to play balance and especially if you have a crucible out.
Here's the sideboard:
2 Pernicious Deed (Deed plus Bitter Ordeal is great against Fish)
3 Tormod's Crypt (For Ichorid and it builds gravestorm)
3 Seal of Primordium (Against an early Oath or Time Vault, but mainly for null rods and again it builds gravestorm)
3 Bitterblossom (Chump blockers for fish and generate more gravestorm for Deed)
2 Relic of Progenitus (Ichorid again and again it builds gravestorm)
2 Slaughter Pact (again for the fish matchup in case you need to kill a goyf or something also again raises gravestorm)

Let me know what you think.

[VorpalBunnyDuby]

I think that going the tempo plan might be the best option for the deck, sorta reminds me of deeznoughts from a few months ago. Adding a maindeck darkblast might be a worth while tutor target to kill off opposing bobs and gorilla shamans. If you don't plan on running null rods, I'd suggest adding voltaic key and time vault for a fast "oops" win option.
The white splash seems bad, a green splash for goyfs and possibly trygon predators would be better.

[xouman]

I tried bitterblossom with earwig squad and some more rogues (oona's blackguard, cold-eyed selkie and sometines rootwater thief or looter il-kor) with very little success. The problem is that you must be very cautious because a lot of decks can win you with the top deck draw, and bitterblossom is quite slow in vintage. The problem playing rogues is that they are crap when played alone; oona's blackguard is great with a bltterblossom (hippys every turn), selkie becomes an unblockable dimir who draws 2 cards and earwig squad can be played in the third turn, but played alone it's a 1/1 flying creature... quite unimpressive. The rest of the deck was disruptive (8 counters, 6 discard, null rods and bouncers).

Also I want to try a bitterblossom deck with faeries (spellstutter, vendillion), but I'm not convinced it would run in vintage.