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Lurker101
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« on: June 30, 2009, 03:59:43 pm » |
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So the primer on MTGsalvation is almost complete. I was wondering what cards from M10 have the possibility to see some vintage play. I don't see a whole lot of cards that fit the criteria so far but I see a couple that could make a slight dent. The most obvious card is Silence as another Orim's Chant/Abeyance effect, I don't doubt that this will see play at all. Secondly there's Burning Inquiry a sorcery that only costs  and lets every player draw 3 and then discard three at random, it sucks against Dredge but I could see it making an impact somewhere, it's kind of like a mini-wheel of fortune, maybe some storm varients will play it. Thirdly is the inferior regrowth varient Nature's Spiral which lets you grab any permanent from your yard for   at sorcery speed. Seeing as how Nature's Spiral is inferior to both Regrowth and Eternal Witness which are great cards that haven't been seeing much play lately, I doubt Spiral will have much of an impact but some people might try it. Lastly is Gargoyle Castle which has very narrow applications but may fit into a few Workshop decks. A few other cards that probably won't see any play but might be tried out by somebody are: The new dual lands which may help budget players cut down on card cost. Mirror of Fate: A card which seems to be an inferior artifact version of Doomsday. It's the only card that gets exiled cards back now that the Wishes and Research won't be able to do that. The thing that excites me most about the card is that it shows WotC is willing to print cards that bring back exiled cards which could make for some relevant printings in future sets. Awakener Druid: A 4/5 for 2G is pretty good but it's dependant on a 1/1 staying in play to support it and your forest not getting destroyed. Sign In Blood: A worse version of Night's Whisper (it costs  and is a sorcery) that targets players. Open the Vaults: A symmetrical and more expensive Replenish like card that also works on dead artifacts. This card is overcosted and inferior to Replenish (which sees no play) and Yawgmoth's Will (which, we all know sees tons of play). I think this could find a home in extended though. Well Standard and Extended certainly get a few new goodies but there's not much for Vintage. At least there's 10 cards left to spoil. I hope we get something else in those 10. Let me know what you think of M10 so far and it's playables. |
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xouman
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 06:35:07 pm » |
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I really think that Mirror of fate will be played. With demonic consultation you exile all your libary (and I think you don't lose the game), and cards like yawgmoth's will, fow, misdirection, imprint cards (chrome mox, isocron scepter), graveyard remove cards (extirpate, relic of progrenitus, tormod's, skeletal scrying) and some tutors like spoils of the vault or tainted pact can fit with this card.
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Lurker101
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2009, 06:57:30 pm » |
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I really think that Mirror of fate will be played. With demonic consultation you exile all your libary (and I think you don't lose the game), and cards like yawgmoth's will, fow, misdirection, imprint cards (chrome mox, isocron scepter), graveyard remove cards (extirpate, relic of progrenitus, tormod's, skeletal scrying) and some tutors like spoils of the vault or tainted pact can fit with this card.
I guess I just see it as strictly inferior to Doomsday. You only get 7 cards back with Mirror of Fate (like doomsday) but Mirror costs more and the cards you get HAVE to be exiled so you would have to exile your combo in order to work with this. Mirror is also more easily disrupted than doomsday. It gets hit by Null Rod and Pithing Needle as well as just random artifact destruction which are all over the place. The main reason I'm excited about this card is that it shows us that R&D might print more cards that get exiled cards in the future. As soon as the M10 rules change happens the only cards that can do this will be Mirror and Pull from Eternity which only puts one exiled card back into your graveyard for  . (kind of off topic:) It would be awesome if they printed a regrowth effect for exiled cards in the future like : Sorcery: Return target exiled card to your hand (for some reason I think this card would be white). |
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Vegeta2711
Bouken Desho Desho?
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Nyah!
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2009, 10:15:45 pm » |
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Absolutely nothing has Vintage potential. Silence over Chant, because not being misdirectionable > combat usually. That's it.
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A_Outcast
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2009, 10:28:51 pm » |
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Elvish Archdruid might see play in the older elf decks (staff+elves)
then like vegeta said silence because it cant be MD'd.
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... "OMGWTFElephantOnMyFace". |
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lilmidget
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 10:51:04 pm » |
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i could see mold adder seeing some play in certain metagames.
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it's nice to be back.
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DubDub
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 08:07:49 am » |
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Ponder and Duress seem pretty good...
Honestly though I agree with what's been said. Silence is good in parfait, and Mold Adder is great in the right meta. Adder has the benefit of not competing with Tarmogoyf because it's a one drop. I was initially psyched about Nature's Lore until Harlequin reminded me that Reconstruction has existed for years.
Does anyone think that the printing of Nature's Lore suggests that an instant speed Relearn may be in the works? I would love to see that.
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Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.
Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops. I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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AmbivalentDuck
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Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2009, 08:48:50 am » |
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I really think that Mirror of fate will be played. With demonic consultation you exile all your libary (and I think you don't lose the game), and cards like yawgmoth's will, fow, misdirection, imprint cards (chrome mox, isocron scepter), graveyard remove cards (extirpate, relic of progrenitus, tormod's, skeletal scrying) and some tutors like spoils of the vault or tainted pact can fit with this card.
I guess I just see it as strictly inferior to Doomsday. You only get 7 cards back with Mirror of Fate (like doomsday) but Mirror costs more and the cards you get HAVE to be exiled so you would have to exile your combo in order to work with this. Mirror is also more easily disrupted than doomsday. It gets hit by Null Rod and Pithing Needle as well as just random artifact destruction which are all over the place. The main reason I'm excited about this card is that it shows us that R&D might print more cards that get exiled cards in the future. As soon as the M10 rules change happens the only cards that can do this will be Mirror and Pull from Eternity which only puts one exiled card back into your graveyard for . (kind of off topic:) It would be awesome if they printed a regrowth effect for exiled cards in the future like : Sorcery: Return target exiled card to your hand (for some reason I think this card would be white). Sadly, the main deck to benefit from this effect would probably be Doomsday. |
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arctic79
Basic User
Posts: 203
The least controversial avatar ever!!!!
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2009, 09:04:44 am » |
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More of a Legacy card is:
Tome Scour U
Sorcery
Target player puts top 5 cards of their library into graveyard.
Turn 1
Fetch, Tome Scour
Turn 2
Land, Tombstalker
Seems good, doubtful for vintage though. Pretty fast clock.
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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 04:15:01 pm » |
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Is it just me or does Burning Inquiry seem really good in a dredge deck?
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"-I didn't know you could stop being a God.
-You can stop being anything."
Delirium and Dream conversing, in Brief Lives (Sandman).
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chief
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 04:48:33 pm » |
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Is it just me or does Burning Inquiry seem really good in a dredge deck?
Why would you possibly want to let your opponent filter 3 cards instead of just playing careful study or breakthrough? |
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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2009, 05:51:14 pm » |
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Is it just me or does Burning Inquiry seem really good in a dredge deck?
Why would you possibly want to let your opponent filter 3 cards instead of just playing careful study or breakthrough? You don't filter, its random discard, there a good chance you'll actually might hit their hate this way. |
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"-I didn't know you could stop being a God.
-You can stop being anything."
Delirium and Dream conversing, in Brief Lives (Sandman).
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LordHomerCat
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2009, 07:25:44 pm » |
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And there's a good chance you will just let them draw a hate card too. Also random discard, so you might just draw 3 randoms, then discard 3 draw spells instead of dredgers. Careful Study seems like a mile better.
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Team Meandeck Team Serious LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
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LotusHead
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Posts: 2785
Team Vacaville
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 11:31:54 pm » |
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Hive Mind is a wacky new crazy enchantment (when players play instants or sorceries, each other players copy that spell and pick new targets if applicable...) Wizards put out an article about it today (as it's their preview card for today) and has some actual good combos. (Ie Pact of Negation!) For the win! http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ftl/45 |
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Lurker101
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2009, 01:15:52 pm » |
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I would be thrilled if hive mind spawned a new deck but I doubt it will. The card looks like a lot of fun though.
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AmbivalentDuck
Tournament Organizers
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Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 01:36:58 pm » |
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Very very cute in Rector flash.
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SiegeX
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Posts: 209
I'm attacking the darkness!
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 06:36:34 pm » |
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And there's a good chance you will just let them draw a hate card too. Also random discard, so you might just draw 3 randoms, then discard 3 draw spells instead of dredgers. Careful Study seems like a mile better.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the_lord_shaper was implying that Burning Inquiry would be used as a way to get dredgers into the yard, rather you would replace those 3 draws with a a dredger already in the yard. I think this card deserves some play time before we write off its random discard ability. If done early, I think there is a good chance your opp will be worse off. |
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meadbert
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2009, 09:12:12 am » |
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Also, if your opponent Vamp's or Mysticals for Yawg, you can empty their hand with Sadistic Hypnotist and then mill them for 3 with Burning Inquiry. It seems potentially decent in Dredge. The reason I doubt it is optimal is that Fatestitcher is better.
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T1: Arsenal
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2009, 11:29:35 am » |
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Burning inquiry gets me excited in this set. I am very suprised that nobody saw the obvious use (to me anyway) in this card. Red stax/Shop aggro. If you get a welder in play turn 1, and drop all your moxen/chalice @ 0, you follow next turn by casting inquiry. They will most likely have just 1 land in play (esp w/ chalice @0) and not have casted anything good. You will get to rip up 3 of their top 10/11 cards with a nice chance of hitting their counters/hate/bombs/mana, meanwhile pitching your sundering titan, inkwell, smokestax, etc. It is like a cheap thirst for knowledge + mind twist for a decent welder deck! Very suprised nobody looked at it this way yet.
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"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath |
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Sam101
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« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2009, 02:37:00 pm » |
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Burning inquiry gets me excited in this set. I am very suprised that nobody saw the obvious use (to me anyway) in this card. Red stax/Shop aggro. If you get a welder in play turn 1, and drop all your moxen/chalice @ 0, you follow next turn by casting inquiry. They will most likely have just 1 land in play (esp w/ chalice @0) and not have casted anything good. You will get to rip up 3 of their top 10/11 cards with a nice chance of hitting their counters/hate/bombs/mana, meanwhile pitching your sundering titan, inkwell, smokestax, etc. It is like a cheap thirst for knowledge + mind twist for a decent welder deck! Very suprised nobody looked at it this way yet.
It just seems too likely to backfire... |
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BruiZar
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2009, 03:45:56 am » |
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I'm not sure if its anything for Vintage, but this card I'm looking forward to.  |
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mistervader
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2009, 09:59:56 am » |
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Mirror Of Fate seems to fall perfectly in line with Doomsday. Methinks it can replace Research, or be fetched by Research from the board to enable infinite shenanigans yet again.
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AmbivalentDuck
Tournament Organizers
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Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2009, 05:02:05 pm » |
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Lurking Predators has a very powerful effect, and I honestly think it would be playable in Fish at CMC <= 4. As printed, the CMC is 6 and without a reliable and fast way to cheat it into play it's very unplayable. But, flipping Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, or Meddling Mage into play is quite strong. After going through the trouble of Flashing or Therapying a Rector, it's hard to justify not winning on the spot with Bargain  |
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