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Author Topic: U/G Aggro Swarm  (Read 6405 times)
the_lord_shaper
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« on: July 04, 2009, 01:24:27 pm »

    Hi again guys, I'm posting yet another deck that I have been working on for the past month or so. This one really is a evolution of one of my earlier decks I posted on here. I'll post my list First, and I 'll answer (or at least try to) all of your questions about my deck. I know there are going to be quite a few "WTF" type comments about my card choices.

U/G Aggro Swarm

Creatures: 13
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Were-Bear
2 Elvish Spirit Guide

Instants: 18
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Misdirection
1 A-Call
1 Brainstorm
1 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Sorcery: 4
1 TimeWalk
1 Regrowth
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Life from the Loam

Artifacts: 5
4 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus

Enchantments: 3
3 Seal of Primordium

Lands: 17
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Bazaar of Baghdad

      Xantid Swarm: This is probably going to be the hardest usage of a card to get people to understand. Well Simply put, against any deck that has counter spells, if you resolve turn one Swarm, then nothing will ever been countered on your side. As a by product of this protection, Swarm also renders Mana Drain almost useless. Mana Drain could only be used for protection of their own spells, which would seem unlikely given how mana intensive that would actually be. They also generate more dead cards for Mana Drain based decks to draw into as a result of their protection. Swarm does suck vs. Stax, Dredge, Tendrils, and Aggro that doesn't use blue, thus is boarded out of those match ups. Even with that being said, the positives of this one drop are too good to out way its down falls. Yes, I do realize it has no power, thus can't deal damage. Swarm is a better slot then either Curse Catcher or Vexing Susher would be here though. Its simply the best one drop protection fish can ask for right now.

    Were-Bear: Yup, I am using the Were-Bear, the dude who taps for mana and has threshold. Why? Simple, he's just very cheap and effective. He's ability to tap for mana helps out during the earlier to mid-game, and by turn four he is a 4/4 most of the time. I have tried out a bunch  of creatures in his place, Coatl, Mongoose, Vinelasher, and a few others. I wanted more beat down then just goyf, and for two mana I haven't found a better creature then Were-Bear.

    Accumulated Knowledge: Ok, so Ak's weren't in the older versions of this deck, Vedalken Heretic was. I switched because; Ak's drew me cards faster, were usually always protected by Swarm, made Bear bigger faster, they are actually useful if dredged into, also served as early pitches to Bazaar, aren't depended on the combat phase, and they gave me cards immediately.

    From here everything should make sense for the most part. Maybe expect for the one Bazaar and one Loam. There are only one of each, because I have mystical and intuition to help fish them out. Also, the lack of Moxen was on purpose. I just wanted to cut down on the number of dead cards that my own disruption would cause me, plus they can attack if need be. Well I hoped some of you liked my deck and I gladly await your comments.
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lilmidget
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2009, 03:20:16 am »

i assumed you've tested this a fair amount, and i'm not sure about your metagame, so i'll just start by asking a few quick questions, since you seem to be expecting them anyway.

is there a reason you're not using 4 ESG? it seems like an accelerant for a turn one null rod with a daze or force would be the best turn one play you could do.

how often do you find yourself winning with werebear? as a 2cc creature, i'm not sure how much he can help you in terms of early acceleration. and if you usually get threshold by turn 4, there are other alternatives which are better than a 4/4 by turn 4.

Quote
From here everything should make sense for the most part. Maybe expect for the one Bazaar and one Loam. There are only one of each, because I have mystical and intuition to help fish them out.
i'm not sure what you mean by this here. how are you intuitioning for bazaar and loam? your opponent will probably not choose to give you either unless the third card is something like ancestral recall. and even then, i'm not sure how bazaar helps you in this deck.
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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2009, 09:18:53 am »

    First, your ESG question, I simply couldn't fit 4 in. Basically all I did was replace the moxen with them, to cut down on the number of dead cards null rod creates in my deck. ESG also serves as another creature since I use so few. And yes I have won two games by just casting the ESG's.

    Second, were-bear. Again this is pretty simple, I have tested so many creatures in his place and he is the best out of all of them, I have tried vinelash, seton's scout, nimble mongoose, lorescale, trygon, terravore and a few more but I can't remember their names right now. I have been playing this deck for about two months now and 60 % of my wins are from were-bears. Basically my opponent will do anything to stop a goyf, but were-bears are never a concern for them until its too late. Also, I know his mana ability seems weak in vintage, but don't underestimate it. His early mana can allow you to play every waste or strip that you draw or loam back every turn.

   Lastly, my intuition pile is almost always; life, bazzar, and strip mine/wasteland. Getting life has never been an issue in my deck. Now getting bazzar has been, but AK's have been fine until I can dredge it or intuition it into the grave.

   And yes I was expecting someone in the past two weeks to ask something about this deck. I mean look at the card chooses, I know that they are freaking weird. But everything in this deck has been heavily tested versus about everything, with the exception of a lot of dredge. I have played Tezz a good 30 or more times with this and lost only once. Sadly though, what I come to find out about the mana drain is that if your building an unconventional deck, that most people on here simply ignore your threads unless your a well know player like Shay or Menendian. But thanks for responding though.
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lilmidget
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2009, 12:37:16 pm »

like i mentioned before, i assumed that you tested this a fair amount, and clearly you are winning in your metagame, so i'm not questioning any of your card choices, especially the werebear. i just wanted to know how often you were winning with it, and if you say it's around 60% of the time due to the bears, then who am i to question results.

but i really would find room in your deck for the additional 2 ESG. plain and simple, null rod turn one with counter backup is awesome, and if those werebears are as effective as you say they are, being able to play them on turn one whenever you can should be something you should go for.

Quote
Sadly though, what I come to find out about the mana drain is that if your building an unconventional deck, that most people on here simply ignore your threads unless your a well know player like Shay or Menendian. But thanks for responding though.

while i partially agree with you here, i won't go as far as to say that unorthodox decks will simply be ignored unless you are a well known player. your deck is a clearly has choices that are geared towards your metagame. it's hard for people to comment or question card choices in a metagame deck when the usual response will be: "i understand that [blank] might seem out of place, but at the local store where i play, it's won me games and i wouldn't substitute it for any other card."
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 04:10:16 pm »

Quote
Creatures: 16
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Lorescale Coatl
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Instants: 18
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Misdirection
1 A-Call
1 Brainstorm
1 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild

Sorcery: 4
1 TimeWalk
2 Deep Analysis
1 Life from the Loam

Artifacts: 5
4 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus

Enchantments / creatures: 2
2 Seal of Primordium or Viridian Zealot

Lands: 18
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Bazaar of Baghdad

Not running Coatl in such a card drawing capable aggro deck doesn't make sense unless your metagame is too fast, in which case aggro may not be the best choice anyway. Thusly, I added Deep Analysis and more ESG to help Coatl be stronger and faster. You mentioned AK boosting werebear to 4/4 quick, but a single AK will do exactly that EVERYTIME for a Coatl because you make him +1/+1 with AK and then +1/+1 from your draw for the turn  so you get a 4/4 guy that is immune to yard hate and keeps growing.

I also changed H Recall to a Rebuild since you can cycle it against non artifact decks, though I'd leave it as Recall if artifact decks are big in your metagame.

Viridian Zealots over Seals may be a good idea or maybe not, figured I'd throw it out there.

This list is 61 cards, you could cut one or run with 61 but I felt 6 on color lands was too few.
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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 04:48:56 pm »

     The problem I ran into with lore scale, was that he was too mana/ card intensive to play most times. In the early game I didn't want to play him, because I didn't want to have to choose  during my draw step to either bring back loam or draw a card to pump lore scale. The problem with that is you want to play the snake as soon as possible. Were- Bear just simplifies the deck to a degree, but maybe I should try out lore scale some more though. Also on a side note, you would differently use seals; they pump up goyf, costs less, and can hit oath of druids.
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silvernail
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 08:39:51 pm »

you wont have loam 100% of the time and if you got coatl out early then your plan is likely to draw cards and swing. You could compromise and try and fit a cycling land or two in perhaps.
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the boogie man
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 09:53:50 pm »

Instead, I'd just run heartwood storyteller, and just play out more of your other creatures. werebear becomes useful for casting it, and it is good against combo and control. and the three toughness is key as well, blocking and killing a lot of fish.
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the_lord_shaper
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landwalker000
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 07:48:41 am »

I wouldn't use storyteller, if I did use someting like this I would use orhan viper, deathtouch plus one sided card advantage seems much beter to me.
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 09:22:59 am »

I wouldn't use storyteller, if I did use someting like this I would use orhan viper, deathtouch plus one sided card advantage seems much beter to me.

I think I am failing at something. Why are you running were-bear in general? It seems like you don't have a ton of mana issues and most of your stuff is cheap to cast. In fact, aside from MD and FoW, everything is under three. It just seems to me to be a waste of 3 slots, especially since you are waiting another turn to use his ability. Wouldn't it be more effecient to either turn those spots into more control or better creatures? Hell, maybe even 3 SoFi's would be interesting.
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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 05:36:30 pm »

  Here's a new version of the deck, I added a splash for white this time. I also cut the bears as well.

Creatures: 16
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Lorescale Coatl
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Qasali Pridemage

Instants: 18
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Misdirection
1 A-Call
1 Brainstorm
1 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkly's Recall


Sorcery: 4
1 TimeWalk
1 Life from the Loam
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth

Artifacts: 5
4 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus


Lands: 17
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 12:44:52 am »

Wow. This deck looks just god-awful in so many ways.

First:

4 Xantid Swarm  I would jump for joy if your aggro deck plays Xantid Swarm. That is such a dead draw it isn't even funny.  ALL my counterspells are actually used to protect my spells anyway, so Xantid really doesn't do anything for you.

3 Elvish Spirit Guide  You play 17 Lands,  and then 2 ESGs?  Why the HELL wouldn't you just run two oncolor moxes.  Lemme guess, "because null rod shuts them down".  That's an awful excuse.  Any vintage player that's slightly better than garbage can tell you that.

4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Intuition


So you're trying to play a draw engine in an aggro deck.  There is a reason all the best performing guy-beats decks play Dark Confidant as their engine... because it also applies pressure.    You can draw 1 card, or cast intuition if it's not putting pressure on me.  Obviously you find Strip Mine, Loam, and something else off the Intuition, but again, that's just greedy.   Better drop your Xantid Swarm first (and have it live) because I'm countering the fuck out of your intuition.  If I don't just duress it out.

1 Mystical Tutor  SUCH A GOOD TEMPO PLAY!!!

1 Merchant Scroll  Wow, this card really does nothing for you aside from be severely awkward in your aggro deck.

1 Regrowth  read Merchant Scroll.


1 Bazaar of Baghdad  Wiskey Tango Foxtrot?  Why the hell would you play Bazaar?  Here's a good rule:  If your deck is soo awful that you're willing to -1 card advantage yourself just to find an answer, you probably need to retool the deck.




Here is my advice:  Cut all the  bad cards in that deck, and then play good cards (AKA play Bug Fish).

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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 01:04:20 am »


EDIT:

 I understand what I have said hasnt really added anything helpful. I apologize for my crude way of presenting my arguement. With that said, however, I do believe Mike "hit the nail on the head" with every comment he made when he went through your cards choices.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 09:35:34 pm by vassago » Logged

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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 03:40:27 pm »

    Honestly Solymossy, I ignored your last offensive reply to one of my posts, but this goes too far. I don't think you understand what constructed criticism even is. And you vassago, for agreeing with him is just simply sad. I thought the vintage community was filled with more more adults then children, but I was wrong.
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 03:48:25 pm »

    Honestly Solymossy, I ignored your last offensive reply to one of my posts, but this goes too far. I don't think you understand what constructed criticism even is. And you vassago, for agreeing with him is just simply sad. I thought the vintage community was filled with more more adults then children, but I was wrong.

I'm being constructive, Mr Lord_Shaper.  I think this deck is a steaming pile of awful, and I gave you reasons as to why.  I'm willing to bet any of the other competent vintage players will agree with me.  I even gave you a way to fix it. 
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2009, 03:59:51 pm »

You want Constructive Criticism? Fine.

Cut the Xantid Swarms, they really are terrible in an aggro deck.  I am 1000% serious.  You wanna know why they are bad?  They printed this:



Not only can he not be countered, but he makes any of your spells uncounterable for just a green mana.  He also attacks for 2.  Last time I checked 2>0, and isn't that what makes an aggro deck an aggro deck?

How many of your opponents do you think will try to counter your spell if you have green mana open?

I do however that Bug Fish would do what this deck is TRYING to do in a more disruptive manner.  6 Duress, 4 Dark Confidant >1 Intuition 4 AK, and the other suboptimal choices you are playing.

why not play a guy that draws cards and attacks instead of playing cards that attack and cards that draw cards but neither cross over.
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pierce
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 04:13:02 pm »

mystical tutor is fine soly. all vintage decks need solvancy.

plus, time walk plus goyf seems busted.
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 05:42:10 pm »

I don't know how potent the idea is but it's pretty clear that he's not using Bazaar as an engine as much as a Lorescale Coatl pumper.  However, since he does use Life from the Loam, Bazaar can be a strong engine if he establishes it.  The problem isn't that he's playing control cards; it's that he's not really an aggro deck.  He should be an aggro-control deck.  

You need to cut the cards that do next to nothing and accentuate the synergies you have going on like Bazaar and Tarmogoyf/Lorescale Coatl or Life from the Loam and Bazaar of Baghdad.  Elvish Spirit Guide, Xantid Swarm and Qasali Pridemage don't really help you do what you're trying to do.  Cut those ten cards and add more Life from the Loams and Bazaar of Baghdads.  You don't have many zero or one drops so you should play Chalice since it's the most-underrated, awesome piece of disruption in Vintage.  Chalice and Null Rod is a strong foundation of disruption, especially when supported by cards like Force of Will and Daze.  

Your gameplan should be to hamper their manabase so your synergies have time to really get going and kill them quickly with large creatures after you've established control of their mana and tie up their spells with Force of Will and Daze.  Daze is strong in decks that can hinder mana development.  Keep all the "bad" non-creature cards Soly told you to cut because they have good synergy in your deck.  You just need to play more Loams and Bazaars to get those synergies going more often.  To slow the game down to a point where you're the faster deck, add Chalice of the Void to compliment your Wastelands and Null Rods so your opponent's manabase is adequately being attacked.  Chalice for one is also one of the strongest plays in Vintage, especially right now, and does next to nothing to your deck.  

There's some constructive criticism for you.

Edit:  I knew this sounded familiar.  I found the thread where Wiley talks about this idea.  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37980.0  Take a look at that thread and what they have to say. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 06:04:46 pm by hitman » Logged
the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 06:05:13 pm »

    Thanks Hitman. I tried to make a deck similar to this one a while back, http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37312.msg519727#msg519727, in it there were chalices, and I do agree that chalices are good and won me many games. The reasons chalices aren't in this deck though is because in our local meta game there is a lot of oath. The main deck pridemages are a result of that, originally they were seals, but splashing white gave me another beater and better side board removal for creatures, in the form of swords.
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 09:25:11 pm »

Guys, knock it off.  This is the Improvement Forum.  What do you expect?  A lot of people complain about low Vintage attendance.  Maybe it has something to do with this snobbish attitude.  This is the Improvement Forum.  Where else is someone going to learn what's good and what's not, outside of actually playing.  The guys that I've gotten to play Vintage started playing because I helped them improve their underpowered jank decks.  There's some ideas in this deck that aren't terrible.  If you don't have any suggestions to help him improve his deck that he posted in the improvement forum, shut up!
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 10:13:17 pm »

No kidding.  Perhaps he's dealing with a mana curve thing in his deck.  Vexing Shusher is really bad at being a one drop.  So if he needs a one drop answer to counterspells, Swarm is better.  Shusher is a superior card, but perhaps Shaper's needs make it a less than ideal choice for his build.  Suggesting he replace one card with another is fine, but dog-piling on is just not cool.
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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2009, 12:08:00 am »

*sniffle snifle* im sorry.......*sniffle sniffle* for being correct
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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2009, 03:23:45 pm »

    Honestly Solymossy, I ignored your last offensive reply to one of my posts, but this goes too far. I don't think you understand what constructed criticism even is. And you vassago, for agreeing with him is just simply sad. I thought the vintage community was filled with more more adults then children, but I was wrong.

I'm being constructive, Mr Lord_Shaper.  I think this deck is a steaming pile of awful, and I gave you reasons as to why.  I'm willing to bet any of the other competent vintage players will agree with me.  I even gave you a way to fix it. 

you should learn how to say that nicely, it goes a long way in life.  Honestly, almost every post of yours i see on here is snobby, elitist, rude, and unpleasant to read.  That being said, you do know the game, and you have the tournament results to prove it.  That doesnt mean you get to be a jerk to everyone who is trying to have a polite conversation or try out something new.
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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2009, 12:16:03 am »

Wow stop trying to be a mod.  Soly is an adult, he doesn't need this. 

The deck:
I would think Coatl + Clamp could be a cool deck.  But thats about all I can see it work in.  U/G isn't good when it isn't fastbond + gush
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2009, 10:22:59 am »

    Honestly Solymossy, I ignored your last offensive reply to one of my posts, but this goes too far. I don't think you understand what constructed criticism even is. And you vassago, for agreeing with him is just simply sad. I thought the vintage community was filled with more more adults then children, but I was wrong.

I'm being constructive, Mr Lord_Shaper.  I think this deck is a steaming pile of awful, and I gave you reasons as to why.  I'm willing to bet any of the other competent vintage players will agree with me.  I even gave you a way to fix it. 

you should learn how to say that nicely, it goes a long way in life.  Honestly, almost every post of yours i see on here is snobby, elitist, rude, and unpleasant to read.  That being said, you do know the game, and you have the tournament results to prove it.  That doesnt mean you get to be a jerk to everyone who is trying to have a polite conversation or try out something new.


I'm not being elitist at all, at least in my opinion.  I'm just being honest, because honestly comes at a premium on this site, usually.
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2009, 11:24:25 pm »

After thinking about this deck a lot, I may have jumped the gun.  However, I still think that,as rude as my comments may have seemed, they were still 100% correct.  Here's some constructive critique.



Seriously, Xantid Swarm is just wrong.  You are playing guys that duck their Counterspells.   If you look back in time with all the aggressive decks, they either played Mishra's Workshop, or they played guys that ducked under Mana Drain.  I think I'd rather Play a guy that ducks under Mana Drain.     Mold Adder should have a home as a 3-of in this deck. 



As the deck is now, you're not playing the On-Color moxes becuase of (I assume) Null Rod.   However, the Moxes give you way more Value than your Elvish Spirit Guides do. 

I believe there is no reason to have Seal of Primordium in the maindeck, when you can go into white and have access to Quasili Pridemage, which has way more value (other than pumping your goyf).

I also feel you want a good 1 drop that is blue.   I would play Sage of Epityr for this function. 


It also feels to me like you're just trying to destroy blue decks.   With that said, Intuition even though it's cute with Loam is too expensive to really support.  I would cut that, and the Accumulated Knowledges, and play a GUSH, as well as a Triplet of mana Leak.  You should beat the Control and Combo decks in the format by having insane cards against them, and you should beat the aggro decks with Tarmogoyf and also Mold Adder and Pride Mage (which beats goyf mirrrors).  You would obviously sideboard against dredge as well as Aggro and Shops.   That brings me to another point:  Guys who sacrifice are really good against Dredge.


I would play Eternal witness over Regrowth for the value-factor. 

Bazaar has no reason to be in this deck because the last list you posted doesn't play Lorescale Coatl.  You could easily play Cephalid Colossium with the Loam engine for some sick advantages.

This is what I would play, if I were forced to play this deck:

U/G/W Aggro No-Selkie, by Mike Solymossy

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Mold Adder
4 Quasili Pridemage
2 Sage of Epityr
1 Eternal Witness
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Leak
3 Daze
1 Gush
1 Misdirection
1 A-Call
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Curfew
1 TimeWalk
1 Life from the Loam
4 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Cephalid Colisium
SB:
2 Path to Exile
1 Tariff
2 Seal of Cleansing (Your UG deck really can't beat sphinx if  they counter/duress your bounce spells).
3 Trygon Predator
3 Pithing Needle
4 Tormods Crpyt
 
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the_lord_shaper
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« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2009, 05:07:28 pm »

    Thanks Solymossy, that reply was written with much better spirits in mind. One thing I need to point out to quite a few people though, is that there is a revised version of this deck midway down on this thread. Most people here are scrolling from the top to bottom without reading all of the posts. In it I added white, pridemages, and lorescale.
   On a nother note, swarm's place in this deck wasn't a fight bettween shusher and swarm at all. This debate between shusher and swarm has gone on long enough and has infected quite a few threads as is. The card the swarm replaced in this deck was cursecatcher, not shusher. The same goes for the AKs, the card they replaced was Vedalken Heretic. AKs drew me the same number of cards as heretic did, if not more really, gave me instant speed card advantage, they are also pitchable to bazaar, can be tutored for, and are actually good if dredged into the graveyard.  
    I understand that this deck looks odd, but what most here don't seem to realize is how much play testing went in to it. Also that I have been playing this for about two months at out local vintage tourney's and usually always winning with it.
   Solymossy, thanks again for the reply. A few points about the deck you posted though. I wouldn't use mold adder, probably ever actually. Its only good vs. tezz, is terrible vs. aggro, shop, and storm. I would rather use nimble mongoose instead of adder. It's just far to situational. Also, gush sets you back too many turns for it to be useful in this deck as well.  And Lastly would be the witness, which I wouldn't use it over regrowth, for the same reasons you dislike intuition. It costs too much, being able to regrowth A-Call and playing it for a total of 3 mana instead of 4 is a huge advantage. Regrowth can also be turtored for, which I have done many times to replay timewalk.
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Chaosegg
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2009, 12:53:59 am »

Interesting idea that I have tried to make work in various ways myself at times.
Looking at your lists and a handfull of comments I have these thoughts:

Where is your Root Maze?

Lorescale Coatl is ok, but Pridemage is bad.
Trygon Predator seems a lot better to me, though yes it is more expensive.

Xantid swarm is protecting what broken, game-winning bomb exactly? I'd rather have a Nimble Mongoose or something.

How about Arcane Denial?
Ponder?

Bazaar of Baghdad / Life from the Loam / Strip / Coatl / Tarmogyf / AK etc
is all ok ish...
but put on colored moxes in, and 4 ESG if you're not going to do a full set of Moxen.
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2009, 04:33:03 pm »

Lorescale Coatl is ok, but Pridemage is bad.


I honestly don't know how to respond to this.  Against every deck EVER pridemage is 10x worse to stare down on the opposite end of the Battlefield than a Lorescale Coatl.
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JudasKilled
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2009, 07:09:23 pm »

Pridemage is retarded good......period.........and if yer running g/u/w u may as well run noble fish or something close 2 it

TMD has relatively high standards for post quality and English skills and this post doesn't meet those standards. Please put in more effort in future.
-Godder
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 01:19:47 am by Godder » Logged
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