Thirst replacements for tez: Brief test notes

[Lemnear]

Have you considered any of the following?

Breakthrough
Concentrate
Careful Consideration
Esper Charm
Careful Study
Frantic Search

I would rather play council of the soratami than these. Why do you think card-disadvantage like search, study or breakthrough could replace T4K that is carddraw and filter?

[zeus-online]

As big of a fan as I am of remand, I dont know how i feel about it.  Just seems like its a horrible draw after like turn five or six, unless you opponent is mana screwed, and then your winning anyway so doesnt matter all that much.  I mean, it could be ok, but then again I havent tried it, but I can say looking at it on paper, I think you could do something better with the four slots.  Maybe the four cards could turn into ponder, tfk, frantic search and one random other card.

In type1 i don't really take into consideration what happens that late in a game...If it's turn 5 or 6 i should be winning, or have already lost.
The point is, as i stated, to buy time to get mana drain online. It has also on occasion been nice to send the card to their hand instead of the graveyard (welders).
Another trick that is to use it against counters....Let's say you play fact, your opponent forces, you remand the fact...That's +2 CA to you right there (Assuming that he played the pitchcost).

I'm not sold on remand yet, but it does seem to have it's uses. There have been situations where i wished they where negates, duress or something like that....But against fish and shops i've been satisfied....none of the other options would've worked equally well.

I understand the tempo you are trying to generate with remand, but I do not see it as necessary if you are trying to basically skip their turn one.  Do not get me wrong, that could just be the stones.  However, I do not see this card being useful aside from that one instance.

One instance? It happens quite frequently....It's not exactly a rare play. Against fish and shops i really just want to build up my mana, and remand helps that by stopping them for 1 turn and drawing me a card. I'm not saying remand is the best tech ever, but it's solid against fish and shops, i'd rather have duress against combo and control though.


Now for all the suggestions:
Compulsive research - 3 mana at sorcery speed really messes up with the decks ability to play mana drain, and i'm often digging for more land...Vintage decks are very low and lands, and they still can't afford to miss land drops....I'm not really sure if i want to discard lands early on, and i really don't want a draw engine that dosnt go active until late in the game....If that was the case, i'd run Stroke of genius. The thing with DA is that 1U is quite easy to pay while holding drain mana up (turn 3, 3 lands, 1 mox - Very common) Compulsive is a great card though, just not for this deck (maybe just not for Type1).
Diabolic Vision - Why would i want a worse impulse? sure it digs deeper, but impulse is a common turn 1 play, and it's an instant.
Lim-Dul's Vault - Haven't considered it, but i think it would be better for a "speed vault" deck or something...It's a fine card, but Card advantage is preferable.
Standstil - Standstill is a good card, but i think i would have to run alot more lands to make any use of it....Also aside from working on creatures it's alot like remora. The mere presence of standstill in a deck suggests a slow strategy, and we do not really want to slow Tez down, the speed is needed.
Ninja + Creatures - This is a mana drain deck, not fish....Why would i run ninja when i just cut dark confidant?

Breakthrough
Concentrate
Careful Consideration
Esper Charm
Careful Study
Frantic Search
All of those 6 cards are awfull, except for Frantic search which gives card disadvantage(Thus making in almost unplayable for this deck), and is only worthy of consideration due to DA.

DA + Whispers draw engine - The life loss issue is exactly why i wouldn't run DA with Confidants or whispers....The life loss adds up waay too fast, even with just 3 DA's it's 9 life...That combined with fow and fetch means that you're likely to do 10+ damage to yourself, if we add Night's whisper into that mix it gets ugly fast.

[bluemage55]

I'm surprised no one here has tested Strategic Planning.  If sorcery speed is not an issue, strat plans are farily strong.

[XdeckX]

In my opinion Impulse is better than Strategic Planning in Tez. You only use the yard after playing Y.Will. The dumping of cards in the yard was usefull in CS when using a Welder but most Tez builds are without that friendly goblin So the added bonus is gone.
Impulse digs deeper and is instant. And because both cards only provide card quality (instead of quantity) my guess you're better off with Impulse (or Telling Time for that matter)
And both Impulse and Telling Time are already covered in the starting post.

[Elfrago]

Augury Adept? Like confidant but won't kill you under Key+Vault

[Lemnear]

Augury Adept is double U and has no evasion; means while facing any kind of deck with creatures this is a dead card unlicke confidant that is a pretty common turn 1 drop

[Negator13]

I've been entertaining the idea of having 4 Cunning Wish with Ancestral in the sideboard. Like TFK, Wish is a 2U instant. I see it as a TFK/Merchant Scroll hybrid. Not sure if that would be worth the loss of MD Ancestral to DT/MT/randomly draw, but it's an idea.

[Jo84]

and what would you get with your second cunning wish?

[BruiZar]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Thoughtcast yet. It's a horrible drain sink and a sorcery, but once you get a fex moxen it becomes the strongest draw spell after ancestral recall. Also, when you are facing Null Rod your artifacts don't become entirely useless because of affinity.

This is the list Cesar Fernandez ran to a first place (With 4TFK though)

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
1 Tinker
1 Misdirection
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
4 Seat of the Synod
# 60

Sideboard:

4 Ingot Chewer
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Extirpate
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Pyroclasm
# 15

src: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27773

I would change the list to something like this:
-1 Fact of Fiction
-3 Thirst for Knowledge
-1 Voltaic Key
-2 Sensei's Divining Top

+2 Thoughtseize
+3 Duress
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Hurky's Recall

[CHaPuZaS]

Thoughtcast is far better than many of the draw engines proposed, will somebody gibe it a try? I can ensure Now that it works perfectly in any tezz shell, and it is a fine replacement for tfk in bomberman...

[zeus-online]

Most thoughtcast lists i've seen plays horrible cards like seat of the synod....Hence i just dismissed it before trying it. Have played thoughtcast painter and was not impressed. I just don't like loosing to null rods and wastelands (see my mana base...6 island, 6 fetches)

[CHaPuZaS]

Most people that dont try the deck say so... Have you seen the deck's results??? It has won, top8 more tournaments than any tezz build, at least in spain. Rod aré not autolose, wastelands aré not even a problem. I can just told you to test it, you ll find the Potential that way.

[zeus-online]

Most people that dont try the deck say so... Have you seen the deck's results??? It has won, top8 more tournaments than any tezz build, at least in spain. Rod aré not autolose, wastelands aré not even a problem. I can just told you to test it, you ll find the Potential that way.

That list plays 19 artifacts with activated abilities if i'm not mistaken....If that list dosn't lose to null rod, nothing does.
Can't argue with the results.....But i'd probably never play a list with that many cards that gets shut off by null rod and with no basic islands to guard against wastelands. I could imagine it being quite good in the mirror (REB's, thoughtcasts etc.) but i can't see it beating fish and shops consistently. (And combo might also be problematic, as there's only FoW and Drain for that)

The deck seems overly vulnerable to...well, everything.

[CHaPuZaS]

I will told you, again, to test the deck before being so wrong, but if you prefer to rest in your position than acknowledging about the deck... I'm performing so well with the deck because of people that prefer to think than to know.

Also, if you want to know,  this deck is almost as fast a a TPS, but with protection. Any drain deck is a very very favorable matchup, almost autowin. Shop decks are also a good matchup due to the sideboard's hate and maindeck speed. Ichorid should be very easy and fish is the only unfavorable pair, and thats only in theory, as I'm 8/14 against fish decks in my favour.

[M.Solymossy]

Confidant is good...















...... that is all.

[LotusHead]

I was thinking of replacing 3 Thirsts (and a misdirection) in my Bomberman deck for 4 Bobs.

OR that "UU: Draw 3 cards, then at end of turn, discard 3 cards" sorcery.

[vassago]

As big of a fan as I am of remand, I dont know how i feel about it.  Just seems like its a horrible draw after like turn five or six, unless you opponent is mana screwed, and then your winning anyway so doesnt matter all that much.  I mean, it could be ok, but then again I havent tried it, but I can say looking at it on paper, I think you could do something better with the four slots.  Maybe the four cards could turn into ponder, tfk, frantic search and one random other card.

In type1 i don't really take into consideration what happens that late in a game...If it's turn 5 or 6 i should be winning, or have already lost.
The point is, as i stated, to buy time to get mana drain online. It has also on occasion been nice to send the card to their hand instead of the graveyard (welders).
Another trick that is to use it against counters....Let's say you play fact, your opponent forces, you remand the fact...That's +2 CA to you right there (Assuming that he played the pitchcost).

I'm not sold on remand yet, but it does seem to have it's uses. There have been situations where i wished they where negates, duress or something like that....But against fish and shops i've been satisfied....none of the other options would've worked equally well.

I understand the tempo you are trying to generate with remand, but I do not see it as necessary if you are trying to basically skip their turn one.  Do not get me wrong, that could just be the stones.  However, I do not see this card being useful aside from that one instance.

One instance? It happens quite frequently....It's not exactly a rare play. Against fish and shops i really just want to build up my mana, and remand helps that by stopping them for 1 turn and drawing me a card. I'm not saying remand is the best tech ever, but it's solid against fish and shops, i'd rather have duress against combo and control though.


Now for all the suggestions:
Compulsive research - 3 mana at sorcery speed really messes up with the decks ability to play mana drain, and i'm often digging for more land...Vintage decks are very low and lands, and they still can't afford to miss land drops....I'm not really sure if i want to discard lands early on, and i really don't want a draw engine that dosnt go active until late in the game....If that was the case, i'd run Stroke of genius. The thing with DA is that 1U is quite easy to pay while holding drain mana up (turn 3, 3 lands, 1 mox - Very common) Compulsive is a great card though, just not for this deck (maybe just not for Type1).
Diabolic Vision - Why would i want a worse impulse? sure it digs deeper, but impulse is a common turn 1 play, and it's an instant.
Lim-Dul's Vault - Haven't considered it, but i think it would be better for a "speed vault" deck or something...It's a fine card, but Card advantage is preferable.
Standstil - Standstill is a good card, but i think i would have to run alot more lands to make any use of it....Also aside from working on creatures it's alot like remora. The mere presence of standstill in a deck suggests a slow strategy, and we do not really want to slow Tez down, the speed is needed.
Ninja + Creatures - This is a mana drain deck, not fish....Why would i run ninja when i just cut dark confidant?

Breakthrough
Concentrate
Careful Consideration
Esper Charm
Careful Study
Frantic Search
All of those 6 cards are awfull, except for Frantic search which gives card disadvantage(Thus making in almost unplayable for this deck), and is only worthy of consideration due to DA.

DA + Whispers draw engine - The life loss issue is exactly why i wouldn't run DA with Confidants or whispers....The life loss adds up waay too fast, even with just 3 DA's it's 9 life...That combined with fow and fetch means that you're likely to do 10+ damage to yourself, if we add Night's whisper into that mix it gets ugly fast.

I have been trying remand lately just so I could have a response based on actual game play as opposed to what I thought, and I would have to say I liked it.  Unfortunately, I have only played a couple of games against Grow and GWSX each. Out of the five or six times I cast it, it was pretty good.  FYI I only played two in the maindeck. Not that this is adding to much to the conversation, but I thought I would at least mention it, since the response to what I said last is what got me to try it to begin with.   

[BruiZar]

I was thinking of replacing 3 Thirsts (and a misdirection) in my Bomberman deck for 4 Bobs.

OR that "UU: Draw 3 cards, then at end of turn, discard 3 cards" sorcery.

[LotusHead]

Secretly, I was considering comboing it with Quicken possibly (and sick sorceries like Tinker, Empty The Warrens, Balance, TimeTwister, and so forth...)

I'm also addicted to shops, so take if for what it's worth.

[reaperbong]

what about replacing Thirsts with disruption instead of draw (Spell Snares in my case) Can't all the restricted cards already make for a good enough draw engine on their own?

Ancestral Recall
Brainstorm
Ponder
Merchant Scroll (-----> AR)
Thirst For Knowledge
Fact or Fiction
Library of Alexandria
Gifts Ungiven

having 4x Spell Snare on top of Drains, FOW and 1 Misdirection seems to be enough to buy time instead of trying to race the opposing draw engine.

[Caselogik]

what about replacing Thirsts with disruption instead of draw (Spell Snares in my case) Can't all the restricted cards already make for a good enough draw engine on their own?

having 4x Spell Snare on top of Drains, FOW and 1 Misdirection seems to be enough to buy time instead of trying to race the opposing draw engine.

I think the disruption/destruction is a good idea, but maybe doing a split like 2 disrupt/1 draw/counter card might be the way to go. Thirst was pretty awesome in Tezz, but controlling the field, especially with as many fish decks floating around may be worth considering.

Something like:
Diabolic Edict
Innocent Blood
Remand/Echoing Truth/Daze/Fire//Ice

[Darkenslight]

What about replacing the Thirsts with this package:

Disrupt
Remand
Telling Time

OR any combination thereof?  Yes, it doesn't always work, but all three draw a card (which is less than  three, I know.  )  Seems worth a try.