ICBM Open Day 2 - Goblins!

[AmbivalentDuck]

I believe that Goblins is actually a contender for tier 1.  I went 2-0 vs Painter, Tez, Workshop Aggro, and UR Fish today, losing to Belcher, (King James) Oath and, Monoblack Pox (with multiple Infest in the board).  The deck easily races Tezzeret both through beatdown and Earwig Squad.  4x Leyline and Fanatic main make Ichorid a bye.  You easily out-aggro most Fish.  I didn't play against Stax today, but Goblins has traditionally been considered a foil to the deck and testing suggests that the matchup is heavily in my favor.

My list (with huge credit to emidln):
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Mountain
4 Badlands

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
1 Goblin Vandal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Incinerator
3 Goblin Ringleader
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 Earwig Squad (MVP)

4 Aether Vial
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
4 Leyline of the Void

SB:
4 Null Rod
3 Shattering Spree
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Goblin Vandal
1 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Weirding
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Mountain

Leyline is main since it affects almost every matchup positively and you draw so few cards that aren't Matroned/Ringleadered.  It slows combo's fundamental turn to a tolerable 3-4 and eliminates the fear of Crucible recursion.  Since you typically drop Vial or Lackey turn 1, your mana base is primarily devoted to either paying 3 for Earwig or Wasteing, whatever is more relevant in the matchup.  Mountain in the SB since land destruction is a real problem when you need to hardcast goblins, Lightning Crafter and Wort are extremely strong against generalized aggro, massive hate vs. brown since I can.  Typically boarding plan is Ringleaders and Wort out and relevant hate in.  Taking out Fanatic in almost any matchup is a mistake since they're key against Tezzeret, Welder, Confidant, safely racing Oath, and popping out Earwig Squads sufficiently early.  Don't sb them out!

Round 1:
Race Lochinvar playing landless Belcher game 1.  He first turns me game 2, and drop 10 goblin tokens into play on his first turn game 3.  I probably should have mulled more aggressively game 3 for a first turn Null Rod.

Round 2:
Ed Black with Confidant Tez.  I drop an early Fanatic, attack past Confidant, drop and Earwig squad taking Sphinx, Time Vault, and Yawg Will, then sac to kill Confidant.  He scoops.  Game 2, he has a strong opening with Mana Crypt, Voltaic Key, and a Mox.  I drop a first turn Null Rod off a jet and he slowly loses to Goblin bodies and his own Crypt.

Round 3:
James King with his Oath deck. Game 1 he has with Platz in play but at 0 life, and discovered he has SB cards main.  I had to flip an incinerator or matron -> incinerator to win this game but it didn't get played out that far since he took a game loss.  I oops by showing him that I play Earwig Squad.  Game 2 I get an early earwig taking Sphinx, Empyrial Archangel and Platz.  Huge error, should have left in the Platz and taken Progenitus.  He procedes to flip Progenitus, then Hellkite Overlord.  Had I either not shown him Earwig game 1 or earwigged better, I probably would have had this game.  Game 3, it's a blowout in his favor, two Oath in play to my two Vials.  I keep vialing out fanatics and take him to 9 but he eventually gets Orchard. I vial in a Lackey and a Warchief at EOT then draw land.  He flips Sphinx and Progenitus (both blue).  I get Matron and vial it out snagging Piledriver and vial it out too.  Sphinx blocks something and his life total swings -3 to 6.  Not enough.

Edit: with hindsight, chaining another two matrons would have ended it my favor if he wasn't holding FoW (though after so many turns, he almost certainly was).  I should have gone for the stretch kill since I was dead next turn anyways.

Round 4:
Sam with UR fish.  Game 1 is a blow out Lotus opening.  He scoops and I have no clue what he's even playing.  Game 2, he drops volcanic and a Gorilla Shaman.  I waste volcanic and pass the turn.  I proceed to drop two fanatics and Earwig him for the rest of his volcanics.  I slowly kill him and he sees no more lands.  When he dies, he shows me 2x Fire/Ice in hand.

Round 5:
Grant with Esperzoa aggro.  Game 1 he leads Thorn of Amethyst.  I drop Lackey who goes on to drop infi gobs into play.  He scoops.  Game 2 he gets first turn chalice @ 1.  I open with mountain, crypt, matron getting Wort.  Wort hits play and he can't deal with massive card advantage and recurring incinerators.

Round 6:
(missed his name) with Painter.  Game 1, Earwig rapes his Tez and 2x Grindstone (Painter is in play, but won't block warchief since he knows I have fanatic).  A second Earwig takes everything else even mildly relevant.  Game 2, fanatic burns turn 1 bob, turn 2 I drop rod and he stays mana screwed the rest of the game, saying at the end that he had Reins of Power (wtf?!??!) but was shy by one mana from casting it. With the board as it was, it would have been a time warp for him, but that's it.

Round 7: Monoblack pox!!!  He plays Wasteland, Smallpox turn 2, I stay mana screwed and he nails my goblin. He cleans up by drawing 4x Mishra's Factory in a row.   Game 2 I misboard taking out my Leylines.  Turns out he has a Darkblast on Lackey turn 1 followed by Ritual->Crucible.  Bah.  

Anyways, I went 4-3 but totally owned every deck an aggro/fish deck can reasonably be expected to beat.  The random monoblack pox was actually 5-2 at the end of the day...successfully praying on Fish decks.  The sheer ownage on Tezz, Painter, Ichorid, Stax, and other Fish makes this deck a candidate for serious tournament play.


As far as changes I'd make, Leylines did nothing all day, but should have since I just didn't get matchups where they mattered.  Incinerator main is a hard call since the alternative would be Warren Weirding and Incinerator both cycles and turns sideways when needed.  Incinerator also kills Welder as an instant vs. Stax.  

Credit goes to emidln for suggesting intelligent and very useful changes to the deck that improved key matchups and to Monomax for help with online testing prior to the tourney.

[JudasKilled]

problem with goblins is u scoop to anything aggro intensive, ive played the match up with naya and the gobbys get smoked 80%, and any combo deck just wrecks yer face

[punki]

I've also played golins this weekend, also maindeck leylines. I got 3/4 th place, were about 30 players, six rounds of swiss + top 8
during the 4th round there was another goblin deck at the top tables, but I guess it went wrong for him at some point and he had a strange build with the new M10 goblin warchief.

I played almost every round in the swiss against stax/mud/ubastax (lucky me  )
t8 won against tezz with oath SB (krosan grip in SB MVP
T4 lost against painter because of sloppy play and a risky hand in the deciding third game (t1 warchief off lotus and a one lander, he got trinket mage to block ans my second land didn't come for a few turns)

[Monomax]

Hello,


So if we make a résumé,


You lost round 1 to your worse ennemy : Combo that doesnt use graveyard AKA Useless Leyline of the Void. You were not prepared agaisnt such a deck... maybe think about Pithing Needle in SB ?  It can be good agaisnt Ichorid to, and some other deck who used one card-activation.

You lost round 2 to a mistake you did by revealing your hidden strategy... that could be a win that would have led you playing agaisnt something else then a pox deck.

You lost round 3 to a pox deck... that you will maybe never see again in your life. Nothing to do agaisnt it, but I assure you that Aether Vial should be big in winning that match-up.


So this deck has a futur but still need a fix. I think that there is some MD' goblin that should be reworked to... there are cards that are not synergistic or doesnt fit well... like a lonely Vandal who should be dropped turn 1 on the battlefield since hes not that good after turn 1, that guy should be a 3 of's... the only 1 of' should be a card that have an immediate impact since you will tutor for it.

There is a battle between Thorn of Ametyst, Leyline of the Void, Pyrostatic Pillar, 2x Vandal +1x Gempalm +1x Warren MD and we have to decide which is the best.

Congrat' to your tournament, I miss my old magic cards I may bought back some gobo since they are fun and not so costly...

[AmbivalentDuck]

problem with goblins is u scoop to anything aggro intensive, ive played the match up with naya and the gobbys get smoked 80%, and any combo deck just wrecks yer face

Yes, most extended decks can beat most fish decks.  This result is irrelevant as the extended deck has no other good matchups in the entire format.   That said, of all the playable type 1 aggro decks, workshop aggro and goblins probably have the best matchup vs. generic 'extended.'

Combo was not and has not been a significant problem.  My loss to Belcher is unusual (turn 1, no dependence at all on the grave) and turn 1-2 Null Rod/Leyline slows most combos to a screeching halt.  Earwig Squad is also very disruptive.

I've also played golins this weekend, also maindeck leylines. I got 3/4 th place, were about 30 players, six rounds of swiss + top 8
during the 4th round there was another goblin deck at the top tables, but I guess it went wrong for him at some point and he had a strange build with the new M10 goblin warchief.

I played almost every round in the swiss against stax/mud/ubastax (lucky me   )
t8 won against tezz with oath SB (krosan grip in SB MVP
T4 lost against painter because of sloppy play and a risky hand in the deciding third game (t1 warchief off lotus and a one lander, he got trinket mage to block ans my second land didn't come for a few turns)

Congratulations!  Honestly, I considered the new chieftain, but ultimately decided that I wanted to cast more matrons/earwigs and cared less about damage.  In a very pyroclasm/firespout heavy meta, it may be playable. Even in that situation, Boartusk Liege looks better.  Goblins is easy to play, but very difficult to play 'right' since mulliganing is extremely important absent blue card selection.  My decision not to run Vampiric/Demonic Consultation is actually very questionable.  

You lost round 1 to your worse ennemy : Combo that doesnt use graveyard AKA Useless Leyline of the Void. You were not prepared agaisnt such a deck... maybe think about Pithing Needle in SB ?  It can be good agaisnt Ichorid to, and some other deck who used one card-activation.

You lost round 2 to a mistake you did by revealing your hidden strategy... that could be a win that would have led you playing agaisnt something else then a pox deck.

You lost round 3 to a pox deck... that you will maybe never see again in your life. Nothing to do agaisnt it, but I assure you that Aether Vial should be big in winning that match-up.


So this deck has a futur but still need a fix. I think that there is some MD' goblin that should be reworked to... there are cards that are not synergistic or doesnt fit well... like a lonely Vandal who should be dropped turn 1 on the battlefield since hes not that good after turn 1, that guy should be a 3 of's... the only 1 of' should be a card that have an immediate impact since you will tutor for it.

There is a battle between Thorn of Ametyst, Leyline of the Void, Pyrostatic Pillar, 2x Vandal +1x Gempalm +1x Warren MD and we have to decide which is the best.

Congrat' to your tournament, I miss my old magic cards I may bought back some gobo since they are fun and not so costly...

We still disagree about proper sideboarding strategy and the relative difficulty of various matchups.  But we can definitely agree that Gempalm and Warren Weirding are fighting for a lone main deck slot and that while the deck needs turn 1 goblins, the correct ones are hard to choose.  The third loss is probably my fault, I didn't board correctly *and* mulled twice game 1 first to get rid of a mana heavy hand (4 lands, no plays before turn 3) then to get rid of a no land hand.  The first mull is a mistake in light of the matchup.  The second game should have seen my artifact destruction (for crucible) come in.

Game 2  vs Oath was a heavy error since my artifact hate came in and he wasn't countering shattering spree with RRR up.  I had a good shot at racing Platz + Hellkite, but let him have progenitus and hellkite instead.  Huge error.  Again, maybe vampiric + demonic consult to find the right cards at the right time.



@All: Thoughts on demonic consult and vampiric main?  The targets are piledriver, earwig squad, and null rod...with lotus, warren weirding, and shattering spree as possible targets in a clutch situation.

[Duncan]

@All: Thoughts on demonic consult and vampiric main?  The targets are piledriver, earwig squad, and null rod...with lotus, warren weirding, and shattering spree as possible targets in a clutch situation.

My first thought would be that Consult is playable and Vampiric is not. You don't want the carddisadvantage Vamp gives you, but you don't care if half your deck gets removed.

[Juggernaut GO]

Round 3:
I get Matron and vial it out snagging Piledriver and vial it out too.  Sphinx blocks something and his life total swings -3 to 6.  Not enough.

I could be wrong with the way I'm interpreting what you say, but wouldn't the life gain from the sphinx come after damage has already been dealt, so if he was brought to negative due to combat damage, he would have lost the game before the sphinx gained him life back.

I remember thats how exalted angel used to work, Again, I don't really play magic that much any more, but correct me if I'm wrong but you should have won this match.

[voltron00x]

Round 3:
I get Matron and vial it out snagging Piledriver and vial it out too.  Sphinx blocks something and his life total swings -3 to 6.  Not enough.

I could be wrong with the way I'm interpreting what you say, but wouldn't the life gain from the sphinx come after damage has already been dealt, so if he was brought to negative due to combat damage, he would have lost the game before the sphinx gained him life back.

I remember thats how exalted angel used to work, Again, I don't really play magic that much any more, but correct me if I'm wrong but you should have won this match.

You used to be right, but aren't anymore.  M10 changed the way Lifelink works. 

[AmbivalentDuck]

Interestingly, they changed lifelink and not creatures printed with the spelled out lifelink trigger.  So Genju of the Fields still triggers and still stacks.

Under the old rules, I definitely had that much...but under the old rules he wouldn't be playing Sphinx.  *shrug*

Goblines has lots of random bad matchups...primarily decks that can deal with Lackey without losing tempo to do it.  So, I beat most of tier 1, but non-fish tier 2 beats me.

Landstill, monoblack control, Oath, etc are all bad matchups.  Unlike fish, I actually have a decent game 1 vs "type 2."