Rogue Deck

[madmanmike25]

This isn’t exactly the kind of “rogue” deck you were expecting.  I've grown a bit bored with Shop decks so I have been toying with a variety of random decks expecting them to all fail as most random decks do.  Most of them did fail, but one actually performed competitively  and it surprised the hell out of me.  With this deck, my goal was to determine if a Rogue deck was actually viable in Vintage.  In other words the card I wanted to test was Earwig Squad, but not as a Goblin.  Originally I wanted to make it U/B for FoW, but there weren’t enough efficient/good blue rogues  so I gave it a monoblack shell that plays similar to the Sui Black decks of yore.  Don’t hate, here is the list.

Truly Rogue
Critters: 26
4 Dark Confidant
4 Earwig Squad
4 Oonas Prowler
4 Oonas Blackguard
4 Stinkdrinker Bandit
4 Frogtosser Banneret
2 Sygg River Cutthroat

Spells: 8
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Duress

Mana/lands: 26
9 Swamp
5 Moxen (yup, the full set)
4 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
1 Strip mine
1 Black Lotus

The basic premise of the deck is too disrupt with Duress/Thoughtsieze and use your Rogues to prowl  Earwig Squad into play winning the game.  Plan B is to use any disruption available in combination with Confidant/Sygg for CA, and beat with creatures using Stinkdrinker Bandit.

By now you're saying to yourself: "Thanks Mike, you just wasted 2 minutes of my life that I will never have back. Ever."

Not exactly, this deck is NOT as bad as you(or I) think it is.  So please let me explain some of the card choices before you click on the 'back' arrow.  So far I have been testing the deck Rodless and have no real complaints.  I am trying a new way of thinking.  Instead of just waiting for my opponent to find his targeted bounce, or hurks/rebuild that’s IN ALL THE TOP DECKS, I wanted to try more actual threats.  I’m not saying I couldn’t squeeze some in here somewhere though.  Hey give me a break, this is the Improvement forum and I’m here trying to peddle Rogues as a viable deck.  We can discuss Rod later.

Card Choices
Dark Confidant:  It is my firm opinion that this card is good enough to build decks around.  Even though it's not a Rogue at all, that means diddly squat.  Thes guy is a powerhouse and the deck would cease to be remotely viable without him.  Many of the games I have played have been based on who resolves this card first.  I’m seeing so many Bob’s lately and that’s probably a sign of this cards obvious potential.

Earwig Squad:  Holy crap this card is good too.  It costs 3 mana and can outright win vs. Tezz and many other decks.  Common targets are Key, Vault, Tinker, Ink, DSC, Tendrils, Will, etc etc.  I would pay 3 mana for a spell that does that.  The fact that he is a 5/3 beater makes him so solid vs most of the meta right now.  Against many of the aggro decks(yes, they exist) taking out Tarmo's will ensure you have the bigger creatures, too.  Earwig is potent.  Why no one is playing a B/R goblin deck with 4 of these is beyond me.

Oonas Prowler:  It’s a rogue and flies and does 3 dmg or does only  1 and makes the opponent discard.  When in combination with 4 DC's you are talking serious CA if your opponent is going to discard once a turn.  Obviously this card is HORRENDOUS vs Ichorid.  Slap yourself if you ever cast it after your opponent plays a Bazaar and discards Ichorid.

Oonas Blackguard: This is a deceptive card.  Most people think its harmless…..until you start casting the rogues.  Making your creatures +1/+1 is a nice touch but the discard effect is nicer.  Once this resolves (because who the hell counters this?) your critters pack disruption.  It give your opponent negative CA with each attack.

Sygg:  This is like Dark Confidant  5-6.  Its really not hard to do 3 dmg.  Its also a rogue, big surprise.  You get the card effectively at a similar speed as Confidant.  It’s worth the two whole slots.


Stinkdrinker Bandit:   He turns all your pathetic, non-counter worthy creatures into an actual clock.  I may be too gung-ho here with 4 copies.   Against creatureless decks this is priceless, otherwise you have flyers to get the +2+1.

Frogtosser Banneret: I just put this card in and have been liking it.  Prowling Earwigs for 2 mana is some good.

4 moxen instead of Dark Rituals.  I'd rather have the mana every turn, than a one time burst because quite frankly there isnt a powerful enough play imo to warrant temporary  mana.

DT and Vamp can go in im sure, but there really isn't much worth tutoring for that you can afford a tempo loss.  It's not like you can tutor up Will or Tinker.


When you look at all the cards we have to disrupt your opponent it comes to:  8 Duress effects, 5 Waste/Strip effects, 4 Earwigs, and 4 Blackguard.  So far this has been plenty maindeck, since Blackguard turns every subsequent rogue into disruption.

And btw if you haven’t guessed, the worst deck to play this against is Ichorid. Try some Faerie Macabre’s in the sb and/or Jailers.

Well, I can add more later if this thread gets any response whatsoever.  I have started to enjoy all the negative comments from players who lose to this “pile”.  I think the only positive comment I got was “it’s playable” after pounding with Rogue beats.

Thanks for reading and any comments/advice. It's a really fun deck if you like the attack phase.
Mike

[Jori]

I like this deck actually.  I was playing around with it a bit, and it can come out quick and pretty brutal.  I think it has potential .

[Darkenslight]

My suggestion would be to drop 2 each of Prowler and Bandit for Yawg WIN, DT and some more broken, possibly even more one-drops, like Prickly Boggart and MErrow Bonegnawer, and the latter is very strong when combined with your discard, as it exiles cards in the bin already.  It looks like it has potantial.

[madmanmike25]

Merow Bonegnawer is a good suggestion.  I was originally playing with Nightshade Stingers as my 1 drop.  Then I decided to test Frogtosser Banneret in its place since with haste it is plays like a 1-drop and can really help your tempo by still being able to cast rogues if you have to use a land drop to waste/strip your opponent.  I'll be damned, but flying has actually been important in a lot of games so Im not sure that i can cut Prowlers.

YawgWill is of course powerful, but not playing with Dark Ritual kinda makes it less so in this case.  I really havent had a situation where i wanted to play more rogues or cast more duress effects that late because by that time you are already winning or losing.  This deck isn't about finding answers maindeck so DT really can only fetch Earwig as a powerful play.

Im still thinking about cutting 1-2 Stinkdrinkers but they are just sooooo good.  If you have 2 in play the dmg gets insane pretty fast, and with Frogtossers they come down fast.  I hope everyone realizes that Frogtossers affect the Prowl cost.  I originally played with 4 Muta's(counts as rogue) instead of 4 Wastes and it was pretty sick since they get the benefit of Stinkdrinker.  Wasteland is just better though.

BTW some good SB cards are

Faerie Macabre
Pithing Needle
Thorn of Amethyst(almost want these main)
Null Rod(obv)
DARK BLAST(to win the Confidant war and kill Welders)
DT
Vamp

[xouman]

I played a UB rogues deck 4 times in regional league (never less than 70 people, never more than 90 - 7 rounds) and only took 2-3 rounds won on each event. My deck was more or less like this:

creatures 15-18
4-earwig squad
4-oona's blackguard
2/4-looter il kor
0/4-rootwater thief
0/3-cold-eyed selkie
0/2-dark confidant

instants 12
4-force of will
3-daze
2-stifle
1-misdirection
1-hurkyl's / echoing
1-brainstorm
0/1-ponder

sorceries 6
5/6-duress + tgz
1-demonic tutor

enchantments 0/4
0/4-bitterblossom

artifacts 4
3/4-null rod

lands 21
2/3-underground sea
5/7-fetchlands (mostly polluted)
4-wasteland
1-strip mine
2-mutavault
3-island
3-swamp



From my experience, this deck was too dependant on earwig and null rod. The plan was

T1 - duress/stifle
T2 - null rod/oona's blackguard/other rogue
T3 - earwig squad/duress + (null rod/rogue)


Without null rod we are not truly disruptive, and without earwig we don't have a clear win condition. Mana costs are bigger than average fish, and we lack cards without selkie (or looter in some cases). Confidant was absolutely nasty, 9 cards had 5cc, blackguard was very nice if opponent has a slow hand but useless with other rogues in play. Looter and rootwater were too poor for T1, but useful sometimes. Selkie and bitterblossom were great with blackguard, so-so withouth her. 4 Earwig was too much, sometimes I had even 3 of them in my hand and no rogues in play. Bitterblossom was far worse than i expected, but i had bad pairings and hadn't tested properly. I wanted to play a couple of stinkdrinker and skeletal scrying, but my friends didn't let me play rogues anymore :p



Full black seems quicker, more aggro, but can do little against vault or tps. I miss cc1 rogues (I never played Rag Dealer but seems ok), and there are a couple of rogue rats I like (Nezumi Graverobber and Nezumi Shortfang). Hymm to tourach is advised due to card advantage (even nogging whack could fit). Card advantage is not utterly needed since it's not really a control deck; it's better to discard the opponent than draw by yourself, so I don't think confidant suits perfectly, i would rather play a rogue in order to put a turn 3 (or turn 2 with mox) earwig, or play a hymm to slow opponent.

I will test your deck tonight if i can, seems nice!

[Tobi]

With 8 Duresses I guess you don't need too many 1-drop creatures, especially if they are worse than the ones you already have.

Some cards that may be tried out:
- Bitterblossom
- Demonic Consultation (way better than Demonic Tutor in this deck)
- Nezumi Graverobber
- Null Rod (obviously, but not necessarily)
- Chalice of the Void
- Cabal Therapy
- Pithing Needle (maindeck)

Also, a color spalsh may be tried out, although I like the mono colored manabase. Blue comes to mind, mainly for Anc and Walk.

[the boogie man]

I think that in a mono-black deck, ritual is too good to pass up. t1 rit, frogtosser, prowler or that disruption guy seems good. it also allows you to play your disruption and lay a rod, confidant, or beats, which would seem to help speed up the deck.

[madmanmike25]

Yeah, with 8 Duress effects I really dont need many 1 drop critters.

Bitterblossom just seems sub-par.  The cards that I would consider swapping for it would be either Frogtosser or Prowler.  Here's why I won't:  Bitterblossom puts a creature in play on the NEXT TURNS upkeep.  So After I cast this......i can beat for 1 dmg TWO TURNS LATER?  Last and least with 4 Thoughtsieze, 4 DC's, and 6 Fetchlands I don't think the 1/1 is worth any more lifeloss.  If it put the token in play EOT then I would consider it.  Probably a very decent card with Cabal Therapy though.

I'm not sure what I would Consult for in this deck.  I think I could put it in the SB though to make sure u get what u need.

Graverobber seems nice too even though its a worse Withered Wretch.  Kinda lame that he loses "rogue" when he flips, but being a 4/2 is still pretty nice.  Worth testing.

I think Rod>Needle for maindeck since you dont always get to correctly name a threat.

The main reason I would add blue mana is FoW.  I dont think that would work though, but I might try it.  So far monoblack has been stable and consistent.

Right now I'm liking the permanent mana sources over Rituals.  But I'll examine swapping the off color Mox for Rit and see what would be better.

Thanks

[honestabe]

Waywreth played something simaler to this a week back at Monday Night vintage and did well with it.
He sided Bitterblossom to fight goblins an toher aggro and it did very well for him