GW Beat-Down [Post Variants Here]

[Stormanimagus]

Hey Community! So I've been seeing a couple GW beats decks placing high at recent Vintage events and I'd like to discuss the deck a bit (specifically a couple card choices). Here are two links to recent high placing lists:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38410.0

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38116.0

Here are the lists for reference:

1st Place
Nick Vallas
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Heartwood Storyteller
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Null Rod
2 Kitaki, War’s Wage
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Mox Pearl
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
2 Temple Garden
3 Mishra’s Factory

SB:
2 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
3 Wispmare
2 Path to Exhile
2 Oxidize
1 Krosan Grip
3 Gutteral Response
2 Sylvan Safekeeper


Jon Donovan (GWS) GW Fish
1 Seal of Primordium
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Null Rod
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Choke
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Wasteland
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Strip Mine
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald

SB:
4 Tariff
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Choke
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Kataki, War's Wage

Now I'm trying to pinpoint which card choices are "metagame slots" and which are simply necessary evils of the respective decks. I'm also interested in some unique tech from both decks.

Nick takes the more streamlined "4 of approach" and runs interesting choices like Heartwood Storyteller. Though I like the Storyteller I'm not sure it's needed as you'll often only be drawing a lot of cards against the TPS player the turn they are winning and you won't be drawing into any instant speed shenanigans other than Aven Mindcensor to stop them. Perhaps I'm under rating the card, but it does seem a bit weak at first glance.

Jon takes the more toolbox approach and even runs an enlightened tutor suite alongside the beats shell. I think that neither deck is perfect, but I'd like to know people's opinions on how to make the best composite list of GW beats. Is it too early to really know that? Is it far to Meta-dependent? Will Vintage Beats and Fish decks never really work with a composite list the way that Tezzeret decks work?

The SBs of both decks are also vastly different. Nick opts for 3 Gutteral Response to stop opposing Countermagic while Jon elects to hose the strategy altogether with MD and SB Choke as well as Vexing Shusher.

Nick also likes Wispmare to combat Oath and Ichorid while Jon doesn't seem to go that route and simply relies on Tariff and Path To Exile.

Overall I think I like Jon's list better, but there are merits to Nick's as well. I'm getting the ball rolling on this one, but I'd really like people's ideas on these decks as I think they are the wave of the future for a Shops and Fish infested metagame.

Peace,

-Storm

[pierce]

for a week or so perhaps, but fish and shops both have the tools to re-adapt to the g/w menace. the card pool is just so much bigger for each of their stategies than g/w has. md sower of temptation, and sb perish from fish, for example. more trikes, combined with md pithing needles for pridemage from stax perhaps?

dont get me wrong, i think g/w is well positioned right now. but I certainly don;t see it as the number one contender for the vintage heavyweight title.

[Tobi]

From the lists i have seen so far the following cards seem to be staples:

3-4 Gaddock
3-4 Mindscensor
4 Null Rod
4 Pridemage
3-4 Goyf
2 Canonist
2 Kataki

4 ESG
5 Strip
4 Heath
3-4 Savannah
1 Plains
2 Forest
3 Mox/Lotus

13-17 cards left to be filled with
Horizon Canopy
more Fetches/Basics
Noble Hierarch (I wonder why so many lists skip this guy)
Knight of the Reliquary
Vexing Shusher
Swords to Plowshares
Glowrider


I don't think GW needs any kind of card draw like Hearwood Storyteller, Selkie, Ohran Viper or the such, but instead needs to slow down the opponents deck so it cannot take advantage of it's speed and card draw, and to generate card advantage by rendering opponent's spells useless. This is why I think Ethersworn Canonist, Null Rod, Gaddock and Mindscensor are the most important cards.
Shusher also creates such virtual card advantage and gets around Chalice@2 which is this deck's worst enemy.

[Smmenen]

At the ICBM open, Jon Donovan told  me that he was playing the deck I developed a few months ago here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37871.0  (with a few tweaks).   Every round he proudly kept me apprised of his progress.  

Keep in  mind though, that the deck I developed was intentionally budget, without power.   John adjusted the deck to include power.