How much power do you own?

[zeus-online]

I was wondering, with all the talk about proxies...How much power do people own? How badly would removing proxies affect people?

I realize that this does not include other expensive cards such as:
Mana drain
Workshop
Bazaar
Imperial seal
Library
Grim tutor
Time vault
etc.

[T00L]

lol I don't even own dual lands

[Marske]

@Tool,
STOP TROLLING !! This thread is actually for the cool people....

Anyway... seeing as I'm in Europe and we're stupid crazy with our sanctioned events... I'm fully powered and have 4 drains, 1 loa, 4 bazaar, 4 shops (incoming), 2 Grim, 1 Seal  a TV and obv a Key and just about any playable Vintage staple including 4 Strategic Plannings... but maybe I'm just weird... Removing proxies wouldn't hurt me one bit and I still won't vote for removing them... I like facing other fully powered decks at events instead of seeing 4x Goblins 8x Fish 10x Standard kithkin with 4 Null rod although that's actually very powerful (DAMN YOU !!)  etc.  Proxies enable me to enjoy playing against players with tremendous skill but little resources and I don't mind playing against these types of decks at all (unlike others who hate facing proxied power)

[Tha Gunslinga]

25 or 30 P9, 5 or 6 Imperial Seals, generally 4 of the rest, 15-20 Drains probably.

[Marske]

@Tha_Gunslinga,
Aahh so THAT'S were all the power in the US has gone to.... quite hogging it !!

[forests failed you]

I finished replacing my set of p9 I sold last year at Gencon before champs!  I'm fully powered again!

[DubDub]

I answered that I have four pieces.  I also have a full set of Drains and one Time Vault (what can I say, I live in New England).

Edit: Also have 4x Blue Duals (minus Tundras), and 4x Blue Fetches.

[Yare]

I have everything but Time Walk and Black Lotus. No Drains, no Workshops, no Bazaars, no Seal, no Library, no Grims.

Edit: Oh yeah, I have Time Vault too.

[Prospero]

I've got:

1 Unlimited Lotus
5 Unlimited Moxen
1 Unlimited Ancestral Recall

As well as 4 Workshops, 4 Drains, 1 Bazaar, and 12 duals, all blue.  I had 17 pieces of power at one point, including 3 Loti, I had a set of Beta power minus Twister.

I'm working on putting the rest of my p9 together and I am on the lookout for more Bazaars.  Ideally I'd like to own a play-set of everything important, and be able to play whatever I wanted.

I also don't really get the whole "Europe has all of America's old power" thing.  I know that Europeans did buy quite a bit of power because European Vintage events are generally sanctioned, but I've never really had a problem finding power in the States. 

[M.Solymossy]

0 power, 4 english drains, 10 FBB Duals, asian everything for combo and tezzeret, a beta time vault.

[NodFreak]

6 power (Unl Lotus, Ancestral, Walk, Sapphire, Jet, Ruby)  <<==== (Gunslinga, I(l)U)
1 Imperial Seal
1 Grim Tutor
3 Mana Drain
All blue duals/ and all fetchs, etc

I want Bazaar's.. ... .     I like to play Ichorid!     (and for now i have the BoB as proxies... it sucks)

And Cant find a freaking Time Vault anywhere! (even Unl)

[The Atog Lord]

Everything except Time Twister. I also have Time Vault and Library.

[2nd_lawl]

Just a very lonely little mox jet. ;_;

[Webster]

I own everything (full p9, LoA, 4 drains, 4 workshops, 4 bazaars, 3 grim tutors, time vault, imperial seal) and generally cycle through about 4-7 additional pieces that I win each year depending on how many tournaments are held. No proxy is the same as proxy to me unless I'm lending out a non-ichorid deck.

[pierce]

I own a black lotus. 0 duals, 0 fetches, and some null rods. And a yawgmoths will.

I proxy a lot, but am able to borrow power when I need to.

[JewLightning]

I had to vote 0 I got in a car accident earlier this year and had to sell all my power to get my car fixed. I have tons of duals, but no other expensive cards.

[Suicideking]

0 power, 4 english drains, 10 FBB Duals, asian everything for combo and tezzeret, a beta time vault.

The question was "how much power?" not "how much asian crap?"

[MagicMan]

Unfortunately I have 0 Power, but I do own a full Play set of all the dual lands and fetch lands as well as 4 Mana drains!!!!!   

[JewLightning]

0 power, 4 english drains, 10 FBB Duals, asian everything for combo and tezzeret, a beta time vault.

Yo Soly,

Where do you pick up your Japanese stuff? I have a lot of Japanese stuff myself, but I also have a lot of cards that need an upgrade.

Brennen

[EnialisLiadon]

No power.  4 drains, but only 6 duals (2 seas, trops, volcs).  I can play most all drain decks and some tendrils decks on 10 proxies.

[failtofind]

lotus, sapphire, jet, pearl, ancestral, grim, imp seal and some other crap

[Stormanimagus]

No power at all, but most duals + fetches and many Vintage Staples.

I'm wondering. Of the 15523 total members on TMD:

a). How many, approximately are European
b). How many, approximately are inactive users who quit magic
c). How many, approximately are some sort of spam-bots
d.) How many, approximately don't post on TMD very often.

I want to see what the pool of TMDers is that are American and post on TMD from time to time. I want to get a better Idea of the actual figure for Vintage players that play Vintage in the states and are competing for Power.

Also, of the players who own power, how many of them own 2 sets? 3?

I think Menendian may be a bit mistaken in thinking that 18,000 copies of each power piece can cover the need. There are more than the factors he put forth. These are all the factors to the equation, as I see it. Let's take the big cheese to illustrate my point: Black Lotus.

X = Total Number of American Players who own Black Lotus
Y = Total Number of American Players who own 2 or more Black Loti.
Z = Total Number of Collectors who have a Black Lotus not being used for Play.
A = Total Number of Black Loti on the market and available at places like Starcitygames, and Ebay, and in-house dealers. (I checked, and Starcity only has 4 at the moment) (On Ebay I checked just now and there were, at most about 150 offers for Black Loti currently)

x = Total Number of destroyed Black Loti
y = Total Black Loti in Europe
z = Total number of Black Loti sitting in a trade binder sitting in an attic somewhere.
zz = Total number of Black Loti still in unopened packs of Alpha, Beta, Unlimited.


All right, now I grant you that Y, x and zz will probably be a very small number combined, but just like Global Warming, everything makes a contribution.

If we use a percentage scale then what percentage of the total Black Loti ever printed do you think goes in each Column? Here's my estimate based on very little other than intuition.

X = 23%
Y = <<1%
Z = 15%
x = 2-3%
y = 35%
z = 5%
zz = 4-5% though this is very hard to know for sure.

That leaves about 13-15% of the black loti in existence to be shuffled around amongst players who want to break on the scene. That's 2200-3000 Black Loti up for grabs out there. That really can't support a surge of new players at all IMHO. Now my numbers may be way off, but they could also be low. For all I know 7% of the Black Loti in existence could be on the market.

Now I realize Stephen is trying to analyze the situation in such a way that he can come up with the best solution for Vintage players, but I think he's missing some factors in his analysis.

I do think his suggestion of Legalizing CE would be a great idea as it would more than triple the current number of Power in the market. If there are 44,000 copies of each CE card and there are only 2,200-3000 Black Loti floating around then well, you do the math.

Please, everyone who can, RESPOND TO THE POLL IN THIS THREAD. If we come together as a community and show them that there is a need they may be amiable to legalizing CE cards.

CE would be a good way of making Vintage a competitive format again. A CE Black Lotus on Starcitygames right now currently goes for $250. Now I realize that *IF* CE was legalized in Vintage play it would probably shoot up to 400 or even 500 dollars, but that is a far cry from the 1500-2000 you have to pay for a real Lotus on SCG. Ebay would probably be selling CE Loti like hotcakes for 250-350. I think most players could agree that that is an affordable price for the most expensive piece of power.

We need to make Vintage affordable again and legalizing CE would do that without completely obliterating the value of the original.

I made this point to Marius a while back.

Revised Demonic Tutor goes for 7 bucks on Starcity and Alpha/Beta still goes for 80-100.

Your Original Loti will still be valuable folks!

Anyway, keep the poll going, and someone influential on TMD should send the results along with a Petition to R & D and Wizards.

Peace,

-Storm

[vassago]

I am fully beta powered. I also have the beta vault and LOA. I tend to keep selling/buying bazaars and shops, so i never have them consistently. I also own Imperial Seal. 

On a side note, I do not know why I do not just proxy due to the small vintage scene here in AZ, but I know in time that will change. 

[LordHomerCat]

None for me.  I had a Recall until about 2 weeks ago but now that belongs to Demars, and I've sold everything else I've won.  Why would I keep it?

Also all my duals are white bordered and english and almost everything else I own is the same.  Except cards that are cheaper non-english, of course.

[goobafish]

Fully beta powered + extras, drains, 2 shops, grim tutor, library. Missing 2 shops, zaars, time vault and seal.

Edit:
Toronto, Canada - I travel to the US for events.

[LotusHead]

5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 TimeTwister
2 Shops
1 Bazaar.
0 Drains

Thank God for proxies!

[Chill79]

Full unlimited P9 and couple beta ones(Recall+sapphire+Twister)

Sidenote:For debate are europeans buying your power;i'm european

[reaperbong]

Unlimited Lotus, Sapphire, Ancestral and Time Walk. i also own 4 Mana Drains and a Time Vault.

I recently had some harsh times and sold a beta Mox Emerald, Unlimited Mox Jet and Library of Alexandria  i'm gonna have a bitch of a time re-aquiring these.

[playkenny]

UL Ancestral, Ruby, Jet, Sapphire, Beta Ruby
3 Drains
Possibly getting Time Vault

Australian for the polls.

[Chill79]

there should be poll option for more than P9