[New Card Discussion] Iona, Shield of Emeria

[AmbivalentDuck]

I'm not sure that's true with Intuition and Red Blasts.

Ie. Oath is a Tinker for Painter, and then you just Intuition to clear out the rest of the Painters and Oath up Iona.

[jaeppel]

everybody is talking about using Iona in oath.  But she is an artifact, and thus could be as abusable in a welder shell.  anything to not pay the mana cost.  Thus you could play 4x painter, and they help as welder food instead of getting in the way of an effective oath.  Say something like 4x welder, 4x painter, 2x iona, 2x grindstone, 4x bazaar, 4x confidant.  20 cards, fill in with appropriate draw/disruption/broken/mana and thats already a stack.

edit:  the above is simply a wetdream fantasy that wont be happening.  i dont know why i thought she was an artifact... the spoiler at the beginning of this thread didnt mention a casting cost.

one thing i am fairly certain of is that this card will see serious play.  the effect has to be one of the most powerful sentences written in the text box of a creature.  ok, so zodiac dragon is better, but they wont fix it....

[Troy_Costisick]

everybody is talking about using Iona in oath.  But she is an artifact, and thus could be as abusable in a welder shell. 

She is not an artifact.  At least, not according to the current spoiler.

http://mtgsalvation.com/zendikar-spoiler.html

[Stormanimagus]

Yeah, if she was an artifact she'd be the bomb nuts cause she could be Welded and Tinkered into. She'd soon start destroying the format. Thank god she isn't

[MirariKnight]

I'm not sure that's true with Intuition and Red Blasts.

Ie. Oath is a Tinker for Painter, and then you just Intuition to clear out the rest of the Painters and Oath up Iona.

I just don't think it's necessary to have Painter once you have Iona out. She's crippling enough as it is without the hard lock.

[BruiZar]

Agreed. You're either going to name blue to remove bounce or black to remove Y.Will + Tutors.

More specifically, Chain of Vapor and Echoing Truth. ie: Always name Black

[zimagic]

I'm not sure that's true with Intuition and Red Blasts.

Ie. Oath is a Tinker for Painter, and then you just Intuition to clear out the rest of the Painters and Oath up Iona.

I just don't think it's necessary to have Painter once you have Iona out. She's crippling enough as it is without the hard lock.

Painter + Iona stops your opponent doing anything that's not already on the board including playing artifacts and small splashes. Naming Black for YawgW & Tendrils still allows them to go off with U, artifacts, bounce Iona, YawgW -> Tendrils.

Against Welder/Stax/Mud/5c what do you name? Red? Colourless?    If you're already playing Tinker for Null Rod or Grindstone, there's no reason not to play a Painter in the MD. The only downside is Oathing into Painter first and needing to protect him.

[Killane]

what about the living wish plan? The list I posted manages 18 blue spells, still runs all the good tutors, and guarantees you get Iona first while still allowing the hard lock with painter when you need it. It also allows first game jailer againt ichorid which I think would improve a difficult matchup.

[MirariKnight]

I really just don't get why you need Painter with Iona. Naming blue or black she is winning the game on her own. You NEVER want to Oath up Painter, ever. Maybe you can use stuff like Lim-Dul's Vault to make sure it doesn't happen, but it doesn't seem worth the risk at all. If you want to run Painter, why not just use Grindstone? Seems like a lot less effort.
The chance that they can win when Iona shuts down 1/2-3/4 of their deck is pretty negligible. Keep in mind you still have stuff in your hand like counters, Duress and Chalice, Rod etc.
Living Wish would be the only way I could see Painter being playable, Jailer isn't a bad idea either. This also (sorta) addresses the issues Oath has when it can't resolve Oath.

[Killane]

I think you're right in that the hard lock would be a "win-more" in many situations, but I can see a number of situations in which Painter becomes much more important:

vs. Five colour stax, or indeed workshop in general against which Iona is really not much better than a vanilla 7/7 flyer without painter,

certain types of fish with good removal in more than one color,

Meandeck beats,

and perhaps most relevant, Tezz, running Bobs (cut off blue and they can still tutor for Key-Vault and kills with Bobs, cut off black.... it's a Drain deck;)
(of course, if Tezz isn't running Bobs or some other non-blue way to kill once in infinite turns then they could actually get key-vault on-line once you get Iona and still loose which would be a major ROTFL but not something I would want to count on).

I think the Jailer game one vs. Ichorid, and the Cannonist vs. Storm and Elf-Combo shores up some tough match-ups. I was also thinking about Sower in the board for the mirror. The Wish plan does give options if Oath is Extirpated. I'm looking foward to trying this, I think the side needs some tinkering but it has potential.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I've read a lot of people discussing this guy vs shops. Assuming that your bording this guy in some amount or in conjuction with something else, I would never sb him in against shops simple as that. I'd stick with my double oath kill you plan, opposed to oathing and trying to achie a lock while racing aggro pieces and wire/stax. I'd rather be playing A E, progenitus, or inky  against shops by a long shot (even in conjuction with painter).

[Killane]

I've read a lot of people discussing this guy vs shops. Assuming that your bording this guy in some amount or in conjuction with something else, I would never sb him in against shops simple as that. I'd stick with my double oath kill you plan, opposed to oathing and trying to achie a lock while racing aggro pieces and wire/stax. I'd rather be playing A E, progenitus, or inky  against shops by a long shot (even in conjuction with painter).

Agree 100%, but we are currently discussing Maindeck Iona, in which case I would nto want to punt game one in a very winnable matchup.

[MirariKnight]

Playing against shops I would board out Iona for Hellkites. The key to beating Shops with Oath is speed, you need to win before Tangle + Stack make Oath irrelevant.

[BruiZar]

by the time you oath up iona and painter stax has already dropped its permanents on the board

[Killane]

This list does make Oath weaker vs stax in game one. Painter simply allows the hard lock to help. It shines in other match-ups like Tezz. The plan vs. Stax is to bring in the Hellkite and Karrthus game two.

[arkmagus]

I believe Iona is the perfect piece to complement the platinum oath build.  Consider the double platinum shell, then substitute Iona for one of the angels.  You then have access to 4 pacts of negation.  If Iona gets out first, she's all but invulnerable already and your 4 pacts ensure that she stays.  The second activation sees platinum and that's a hard lock in most cases.  

This takes care of a great number of matchups, with some exception particularly stax, however, that may be a simple matter of boarding in 2 dragons or other hate cards.  It's difficult to think of any one configuration that takes care of ALL matchups so, as with any deck, this is a compromise.

Along these lines I propose the following list:

Pact of Angels Oath

Creatures (2)

Iona, Shield of Emeria
Platinum Angel

Instants (18)

4 Force of Will
4 Pact of Negation
2 Misdirection
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
1 Lim-Dul’s Vault
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries (11)

1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Balance

Enchantments (4)

4 Oath of Druids

Artifacts (7)

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lotus Petal

Lands (18)

4 Forbidden Orchard
4 City of Brass
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Hellkite Overlord
7 *Others*
----------------------------
15


The ability to cast pacts give this an edge in most matchups, particularly against control.  The downside is that casting pact to force an oath runs the inherent risk that the first creature is Iona, in which case you have to pay 3UU at upkeep. 

Other cards.  Balance is a metagame call, while Y. Will is a card that I play even early in the game to replay Ancestral Recall or other draw spells.  I play it not as a control component but as a way to draw fast into the oath combo or win on a dime in the middle to late games. Petal over Ruby to bring the blue sources to 16.  You can substitute Ruby for Pearl to play Ancient Grudge or other red spells.  The land configuration is very flexible as it allows any minor color to be played without conceding to the drawback of Gemstone Mine.

[vroman]

The ability to cast pacts give this an edge in most matchups, particularly against control.  The downside is that casting pact to force an oath runs the inherent risk that the first creature is Iona, in which case you have to pay 3UU at upkeep. 

so you lose the game 50% of the time after you succesfully oath?

sign me up

[Almanomada]

I meant that you can run Tyrant+Iona+Null Rod in the same deck, which might be the best way to go. Painters Servant is definitely bad.

I totally disagree with this astatement.  I really like the idea of the living wish with iona in the main and painters servant sb.  basically if she hits the board and you name blue then she dies to a black spell next turn or you die to a black spell next turn.  If you name black, she bounces to your hand next turn and you die to a black spell that turn.  Painters servant says GG regardless of which one you hit first with oath if you do run them or the Living wish version with servant in the side.   Basically against stax you can side her out no problem. Plus the painter does give you a secondary win condition in grindstone.

[MirariKnight]

While in the abstract it is true that the opponent might have the answer in the other color to Iona, in a practical game situation you just shut off their deck. The chance that they have the removal card in the color you didn't name + a way of dealing with the upcoming Hellkite or whatever it may be, and that you don't have a counter/Duress effect are small. I've played Oath for a long time. The last thing I'd want to do is Oath up Painter's Servant. I might as well not have Oathed at all.
If you want to go with the Living Wish idea, that might be better, not necessarily for the lock with Painter but more for the 2nd win condition with Grindstone. Oath never has a backup plan and this would be nice, but I don't think it's necessary. There are two problems with this plan: you have to maindeck Grindstone which is totally dead, and you can't run Null Rod, which I think is 100% necessary in Oath right now. If you want to just use Living Wish without the Grindstone win, then you have another dead card maindeck and in the board that are only good if you have Oathed already (read: are winning).
As for Jailer as another wish target that seems interesting, but I'm worried that by the time you can Wish + get Jailer online, Dredge has already won. I think it's probably better in general to just lose game 1 barring a miracle and win the next two, although the ability to do Jailer is a decently compelling reason to run Living Wish and is probably worth testing.

[Almanomada]

Since I am not too familiar with Oath in vintage, you give a very compelling point MKnight (being the experienced Oath player and all  ).  If I were to play the deck I would run the Wish option but I suppose as you said once you have oathed once, its virtually GG and the odds of them getting rid of Iona is probably very slim.  

[BruiZar]

I meant that you can run Tyrant+Iona+Null Rod in the same deck, which might be the best way to go. Painters Servant is definitely bad.

I totally disagree with this astatement.  I really like the idea of the living wish with iona in the main and painters servant sb.  basically if she hits the board and you name blue then she dies to a black spell next turn or you die to a black spell next turn.  If you name black, she bounces to your hand next turn and you die to a black spell that turn.  Painters servant says GG regardless of which one you hit first with oath if you do run them or the Living wish version with servant in the side.   Basically against stax you can side her out no problem. Plus the painter does give you a secondary win condition in grindstone.

You name black so you shut off tutors that can actually search for the bounce that you fear, plus Yawgmoth's Will and Tendrils. If they tinker for a big guy, you oath up Tyrant and bounce big guy or just race if its inkwell.

[Killane]

sure picking black seems like enough vs. TPS, but what about Tezz? I think this, the most common match-up, is where you wamt the hard lock, as they can still get vault and key and you NEED to pick blue in that match, which still leaves them some tutors, and maybe even draw (night's whisper).

[BruiZar]

Why do you need to pick blue? if they cast tezzeret (5 mana...) it will still take them until the next turn to assemble the combo in which case your second oathed creature comes and should seal the deal (or just attack tezzeret and watch it die). Tezzeret is a really bad reason to name blue. So is force of will and mana drain and all the draw engines in the world because they don't actually solve the problem at hand nor win immediately. The only top decks that blue can have is chain of vapor, mystical tutor and merchant scroll if you name black. Otherwise they have Yawgmoth's Will, Imperial Seal, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, which can quickly assemble the Vault / Key combo. Also, they will kill you with Dark Confidant so its not like its going to be a draw.

[Killane]

but with blue they can still play bounce spells, tutors, draw, and counterspells. All they need to do is find and resolve one bounce and they're 100% on-line again and you're stuck with a dead card in hand untill you either brainstorm, thoughtseize, or assemble 9 mana, including triple white. Plus, including another creature main deck means you only have a 50% chance of getting Iona first.

[BruiZar]

draw and counterspells are irrelevant, decks usually run hurkyl's recall / rebuild / chain of vapor, which means you are only affected by chain of vapor, mystical tutor and merchant scroll are the only blue tutors and those cannot find tezzeret nor should you have to worry about tezzeret

[Scyther]

i would definetly choose blue ober black with iona.
with U the oppenent is likely to nothing the next few turns. and the few big black bombs they play you could negate/ FoW/ Drain in most cases. this should be safer than call Black. IMHO

I'm not sure if she should stand allone as a creture in this deck. and if not what supports her? i'll never play painter, thats fo sure... -.-

[Killane]

however, they can find the chain, bouncing Iona with plenty of counter back up.

[Troy_Costisick]

however, they can find the chain, bouncing Iona with plenty of counter back up.

No creature is going to protect you and itself from everything.  She is just one more tool in the toolbox like Akroma, Progenitous, and Dragon. 

[Killane]

however, they can find the chain, bouncing Iona with plenty of counter back up.

No creature is going to protect you and itself from everything.  She is just one more tool in the toolbox like Akroma, Progenitous, and Dragon. 

Of course, I was merely trying to make the case as to why I think blue is a better pick than black vs. Tezz.

[Gekoratel]

I also don't see Black as being a very strong name, even if they can cast DT,Vamp, Will, (Bob/NW) what are they getting/doing with these cards.  Unless your playing against a build of Tezz that can storm you out with Tendrils there's nothing they can do with only Black spells.  If a NW Tezz opponent goes infinite locked under a blue Iona they can't win the game, by naming blue your shutting down many more cards relevant even excluding Drain/FoW.