[New Card Discussion] Iona, Shield of Emeria

[DPCyric]

Iona, Shield of Emeria
Legendary Creature - Angel (M)
Flying
As Iona, Shield of Emeria enters the battlefield, choose a color.
Opponents can't play spells of the chosen color.
7/7

I think this would be very strong in Oath however it's not as good as Hellkite Overlord in a few match ups but in other ones the ability is pretty back breaking.

[Stormanimagus]

Might be kinda janky, but what about this in in Oath with Painter's as a second creature?

[Valorale]

Oath is the obvious application of this card, I see it maybe as a sideboard card.
The major problem I see with this is that there is no way to choose artifacts which would be my most frequent choice against a variety of decks. Would be great against Fish and TPS.

[MirariKnight]

It seems cool at first glance until you realize that it's never better than any of the existing creatures.
I can't think of a time when I'd want this over Hellkite/Akroma/Empyrial Archangel/Progenitus/Sphinx in any matchup.

[AmbivalentDuck]

The first Iona is certainly stronger than the first Hellkite, except against Stax.  It effectively has shroud and pretty much nerfs combo.

Living Wish -> Painter's Servant seems win-more, but it's conceivable.

It seems cool at first glance until you realize that it's never better than any of the existing creatures.
I can't think of a time when I'd want this over Hellkite/Akroma/Empyrial Archangel/Progenitus/Sphinx in any matchup.

What about going into turn 2 vs Ichorid naming black spells?  Going against ANT?  Against Tez?  You shut down many/most non-stax decks.  There's always a better creature for a given situation, but I'd venture that this is the best creature for most situations.

[Elfrago]

 A great addiction to Ichorid. IMHO it's going to replace Sadistic Hypnotist.
During game 1 Ichorid already has great control over the opponent's hand with Cabal Theraphy and Unmask but, a problem inherent with discard, sometimes loses to topdecks or topdeck tutors. This solves the problem nullifing possible topdecks and shutting down most spells in the opponent's hand.

[vroman]

this card looks like the giant meddling mage we always wanted for cost-cheating strategies. remember nullstone gargoyle?
this is the most viable disruption fatty yet.

[BruiZar]

Here's to hoping loyal retainers sees play

[JudasKilled]

if only an artifact.......sad cant tink 4 it

[RecklessEmbermage]

It's going to be agonizing loosing to this.

[Troy_Costisick]

It's a good sideboard angel vs. TPS, ANT, and maybe SCV.  I'd never start this over the creatures MirariKnight mentions though.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Except that this is solid against everything but Stax while something like Hellkite Overlord is a relatively slow clock against something like Steel City Vault.

Turning 1/3+ of your opponent's deck into evermind is *good.*

[Worldslayer]

My first thought was along the same line as almost everyone else's:

"Damn, this would be good in Oath."

Now, I'm not an Oath player. Never have been except for two weeks in my whole Vintage career. Probably never will be, unless it's just clearly the best performing deck in the format. However, I do play against it (admittedly online) often, and I've found that I still won many games where Oath resolved and hit an activation. Usually this was performed by -

1) Tutoring for Key+Vault/other ridiculous, fast win condition
2) Yawgmoth's Will into broken spells into Key+Vault/Tendrils/other ridiculous, fast win condition in the case of discard/counters from Oath.

Obviously these plans aren't foolproof - I have lost a share of games to Oath. However a chunk of the time (maybe not even a majority, but certainly a healthy percentage) Oath resolved and activated its gameplan and still lost, because for the most part all their dudes did was beat. Iona may not have haste, and is a solid p/t down from Hellkite, but cheating it out and naming "Black" against Tezz or TPS seems like a great way to stop a good deal of their "I don't care what you do, I'm winning anyway" plays. Can they still win with Tezz? Possibly. Could they still assemble Key+Vault / generic alternate win condition just by plowing through the deck with Ancestral/Thirst/FoF/etc...? Possibly. The chances of this succeeding is a good deal less likely without access to their ridiculous black cards, however. Cutting off Yawgmoth's Will, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, and (in the case of TPS) Tendrils and Grim Tutor on top of a 7/7 body seems pretty good to me, though. The fact that is has equally potent effects on much of the other Tier 1 decks around makes this probably one of the strongest Oath targets around, rather than "maybe a sideboard option". It's a turn slower than your traditional hasty big guys, but setting your opponent back by that healthy of a margin most games should be more than enough to make up for it.

(Even against Stax Iona still has relevance - in the event of a Goblin Welder not being on the field before Iona, for example, naming Red and preventing infinite Tangle Wire / Smokestack shenanigans seems like a decent call.  In the event of 5c it gets a little trickier, and I'm afraid I'm not experienced enough against it to know what to call, but Blue or Black (stopping tutors or Tinker etc...) seems vaguely decent as well, in addition to aforementioned pre-Welder Red. In the event of STAX though, if you've resolved and activated Oath isn't the game usually in your favor anyway (barring aforementioned shenanigans)?

[Stormanimagus]

Too bad he's legendary. Otherwise I'd run 2.

Do you think there is a good creature to compliment the Angel? As the second Oath target? Progenitus? Hellkite?

I agree with everyone on this guy. He could breath some new life back into Oath. Without Brainstorm though I'm just not sure Oath has what it takes to be consistent.

-Storm

[Stormanimagus]

I'm thinkin something like the following Oath list could be solid with Iona:

Iona

Land (17):
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
4 Null Rod

Creatures (2):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Painter's Servant

Enchantments (7):
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Mystic Remora

Instants (15):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Spell Snare
4 Force Of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

Sorceries (7):
3 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Gaea's Blessing

SB
2 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Tyrant Of Jund
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Oxidize
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Pithing Needle

Not sure that you need the Blessing or the Progenitus, but I like to have a back-up plan usually. Also, Yawg. Will might be kinda meh in this deck, but it is pretty solid as a regrowth for Time Walk or Ancestral. This deck seems like it could be quite strong going forward into a Fish/Tezz metagame. What do you all think?

-Storm

[MirariKnight]

Null Rod Oath has all the tools/matchups to be a solid contender post Zen, barring no B/R list changes.
In that list Yawg should go as should Seal and probably MisD. Add Life from the Loam and a meta slot, maybe cut Blessing and go Tinker, Sphinx or Inky as a backup plan and maybe something like Lim-Dul's or Lat-Nam's and the list looks really solid.
It should have good matchups vs. Stax and Fish and has enough control and speed to have hope in the Tezz match, plus Rod and Remora.

[zimagic]

I'm thinkin something like the following Oath list could be solid with Iona:

Iona

Creatures (3):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Progenitus
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Beginner's suggestion here: In those matchups where you need to hit her with the Oath (the reason she would be in the deck in the first place over a simple beater) surely you'd be better cutting this to Iona +1 at most to increase your odds of landing her to 50%. It would be unfortunate if you had to oath 3 times to get the card you need while all around you people are resolving broken stuff. Either of the other two will suffice in games where your opponet has an off colour solution to Iona as they are untargettable/Pro-everything.

In games where you know you can Oath twice, surely Iona & Painter out of the board should be the pair of choice? Painter also has the advantage of being Tinker-able/castable directly after the Iona hits should you need it. If they don't have an on-board solution you have just won the game.

[Stormanimagus]

I'm thinkin something like the following Oath list could be solid with Iona:

Iona

Creatures (3):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Progenitus
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Beginner's suggestion here: In those matchups where you need to hit her with the Oath (the reason she would be in the deck in the first place over a simple beater) surely you'd be better cutting this to Iona +1 at most to increase your odds of landing her to 50%. It would be unfortunate if you had to oath 3 times to get the card you need while all around you people are resolving broken stuff. Either of the other two will suffice in games where your opponet has an off colour solution to Iona as they are untargettable/Pro-everything.

In games where you know you can Oath twice, surely Iona & Painter out of the board should be the pair of choice? Painter also has the advantage of being Tinker-able/castable directly after the Iona hits should you need it. If they don't have an on-board solution you have just won the game.

Yeah, you're right. Painter is a good MD option as you can often just cast it if it's in your opener. I think that the SB doesn't even need Inkwell then as the hate that needs the most addressing is Tanglewire. Hellkite is the best answer I know of for Tangle Wire because he has haste and can often get there against Shops (especially if the shop deck has taken 4 damage from Crypt+City). I think 1 Painter + 1 Iona is probably the right config. If you get painter first then the best they can do is bounce or kill it. If they kill it in their 1 turn opening then you can still oath up Iona and hopefully she goes all the way. If you Oath up Iona first you just name the color you're afraid will have the removal and that gives them a 1 turn opening before they just lose.

Ichorid is the 1 deck that can win even when the combo is out so I made sure to devote 6 SB slots to it specifically. May need more slots than that in the long run, but we'll see.

-Storm

[A.-1.]

In your current configuration with just Painter and Iona main, why still run Tinker? You are not running Crucible and you cut Inkwell so your only targets are Painter and Null Rod. Maybe cut the Tinker for Wipe Away or some other bounce, so you don't randomly lose to Stax playing CotV at two on the play. How has Loam been in testing? I've found the card to be too slow to make much of an impact in most matches. The build I was testing was more traditional with a faster kill so perhaps an Iona build will find the card more useful.

Have you tried one Hellkite Overlord one Karrthus in the sideboard? Matt Elias has tried this guy out as an answer to Tangle Wire.

[BruiZar]

With painter oathed up you can tinker grindstone and win a turn earlier.
With Iona oathed up you can tinker painter and lock the game a turn earlier.

Edit: He doesn't run Grindstone but does run null rods though. Tinker + Activating grindstone costs 5U which is probably too much.

[nineisnoone]

A great addiction to Ichorid. IMHO it's going to replace Sadistic Hypnotist.
During game 1 Ichorid already has great control over the opponent's hand with Cabal Theraphy and Unmask but, a problem inherent with discard, sometimes loses to topdecks or topdeck tutors. This solves the problem nullifing possible topdecks and shutting down most spells in the opponent's hand.

Bump this.  Not sure if it is better than Sadistic though, but it certainly looks competitive.

[Killane]

I love this! As a dedicated Oath player for the past year or so this seems like a huge improvement over Double-Dragon in the abstract- as in far too many games I execute the Oath plan only to get blown out by Key+Vault or Storm count before the dudes can go all the way.

My only concern is if Painter Oaths up first. Especially in my local Meta, which is heavy on Fish and Rogue decks with plenty of removal, he's too easy to kill/bounce and he's useless without a seocnd activation of Oath.

What about moving the Painter to the board with a Living Wish toolbox? then, we're sure to hit Iona on Oath#1, Wish+Painter is only 4 to cast, which should be a piece of cake, and we get extra game vs Storm (Cannonist in the side, cast off an Orchard or Mox), Ichorid (Jailer), Fish and the Mirror (Sower) in game 1.

Also, Spell Snare... I'm not sold on this in this deck. While it hits Vault, Demonic, Time Walk and the Oaths in the mirror, when ever I've tested it there's been far too many times when I wanted to counter Ancestral, Will, Chain of Vapor, or Swords/Path in the Fish/Rogue match and was stuck with the Snare. I actually have been having alot of success with Remand in this slot as it sucks up their tempo and gives me an extra turn to execute my plan, plus the cantrip effect makes it virtually free.

lastly, turn 1 thoughtseize/duress is so strong and pro-active, why not run a duress plus the three seizes?

no chance to test it, but what about something like this (developed from the list above):

Iona

Land (17):
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (11):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
5 Moxen
4 Null Rod

Creatures (1):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


Enchantments (7):
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Mystic Remora

Instants (16):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
2 Remand
4 Force Of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Living Wish (cut the Lim-Dul's vault for one, hate to do it but no room)

Sorceries (8):
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Gaea's Blessing

SB
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Tyrant Of Jund
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Oxidize
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Leyline Of The Void
1 Yixlid Jailer
2 Pithing Needle
1 Painter's Servant

I hate only having Iona as a 1-of, but I can't see playing two as the second adds no value unless the first gets removed, and really if you have a good sense of your opponent's deck you pick the color they have removal in and cut it off till the painter comes and and cuts the rest.
There's still some issues with the sideboard, and I'm not 100% convinced I got the maindeck right, what does everyone think?

[Stormanimagus]

I love this! As a dedicated Oath player for the past year or so this seems like a huge improvement over Double-Dragon in the abstract- as if far too many games I execute the Oath plan only to get blown out by Key+Vault or Storm count before the dudes can go all the way.

My only concern is if Painter Oath's up first. Especially in my local Meta, which is heavy on Fish and Rogue decks with plenty of removal, he's too easy to kill/bounce and he's useless without a seocnd activation of Oath.

What about moving the Painter to the board with a Living Wish toolbox? then, we're sure to his Iona on Oath#1, Wish+Painter is onyl 4 to cast, whcih shoudl be a piece of cake, and we get extra game vs Storm (Cannonist in the side, cast off an Orchard or Mox), Ichordid (Jailer), Fish and the Mirror (Sower) in game 1.

Also, Spell Snare... I'm not sold on this in this deck. While it hits Vault, Demonic, Time Walk and the Oath's in the mirror, when ever I've tested it there's been far too many times when I wanted to counter Ancestral, Will, Chain of Vapor, or Swords/Path in the Fish/Rogue match and was stuck with the Snare. I actually have been having alot of success with Remand in this slot as it sucks up their tempo and gives me an extra turn to execute my plan, plus the cantrip effect makes it virtually free.

lastly, turn 1 thoughtseize/duress is so strong and pro-active, why not run a duress plus the three seizes?

no chance to test it, but what about somethign like this (developed form the list above):

Iona

Land (17):
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
5 Moxen
4 Null Rod

Creatures (1):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


Enchantments (7):
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Mystic Remora

Instants (15):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
2 Remand
4 Force Of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Living Wish (cut the Lim-Dul's vault for one, hate to do it but no room)

Sorceries (8):
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Gaea's Blessing

SB
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Tyrant Of Jund
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Oxidize
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Leyline Of The Void
1 Yixlid Jailer
2 Pithing Needle
1 Painter's Servant

I hate only having Iona as a 1-of, but I can't see playing two as the second adds no value unless the first gets removes, which if you have a good sense of your opponents deck you pick the color they have removal in and cut it off till the painter comes and and cuts the rest.
There's still some issues with the sideboard, and I'm not 100% convinced I got the maindeck right, what does everyone think?

The major problem I see with your list is the Blue card count. Right now you run 17 blue cards and I think the bare minimum to support FoW is 19. This is why the living wish Plan might be bad. I dunno. It's a tough call on what creature config works best with Iona. Let's investigate this a bit. Clearly painter may not be the best idea as it is pretty bad when Oathed up first. Usually, cutting a player off from his/her primary color should be able to help you get there against many decks but it still might not be enough. So what to do? Well, we could go the fatty route:

Iona + Hellkite. However, this doesn't get you there the turn after you activate Oath, regardless of which one you grab first. Not sure that's the right call. Aight, next.

Iona + Progenitus. This is interesting but is only good for inevitability and not stopping the opponent in the interim turns. No. Next.

Iona + Platinum Angel. Here they can just remove Platz if it comes out first with one of their billion artifact kill spells. Meh. This doesn't seem so good but could be an interesting combo.

Iona + Tidespout Tyrant. Hmmmmmm. Now here we might be on to something. Tyrant is usually pretty good on its own and can buy time to get there against a key if you can simply resolve a spell to bounce it at your opponent's EOT. He, unfortunately cannot do a whole lot vs. Storm Combo, but the hope is that you get 1 extra turn to find Iona and that Mindbreak Trap from the SB could help you get there. Not sure how this would work, but what about:

Iona

Land (17):
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
4 Null Rod

Creatures (2):
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Enchantments (7):
4 Oath Of Druids
3 Mystic Remora

Instants (14):
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Spell Snare
4 Force Of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries (8):
4 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Gaea's Blessing

SB
2 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Tyrant Of Jund
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Oxidize
4 Leyline Of The Void
3 Pithing Needle

[Killane]

I knew I missed something on that inital list. More blue...

Discounting picking blue with Painter (since that will be determined by what we picked with Iona if we get her first, which was the whole point of the exercise)...

Cut the Duress for Lim-Dul's Vault (NOT a move I would normally make, but it fits well with the deck and is Pitch-able) that gets us to 18 blue spells, which I have normally found to be sufficient in playtesting. If we really need a 19th blue card I didn't have a Vampiric Tutor for 8 months running this deck (I know, strange) and since everything I wanted to Tutor for was a 4-off, Intuition worked fine for me. Persoanlly I'd rather keep the Vampiric and play 18 blue - I've honestly never found this to be an issue.

To me, Tyrant seems to need a dedicated build. While it's awesome once in play, its VERY removable, difficult to hardcast, and a very slow clock. Without a double tyrant, you can't do the whole "bounce their board" thing and shut them out, or hit infinite storm/mana , in which case I think we would want to just play Tyrant Oath, and I don't think I'm the only one who finds Tyrant Oath to be dead without the Gushbond/Brainstorm/Scroll engine.

[Greeg]

\
\Without a double tyrant, you can't do the whole "bounce their board" thing and shut them out, or hit infinite storm/mana , in which case I think we would want to just play Tyrant Oath, and I don't think I'm the only one who finds Tyrant Oath to be dead without the Gushbond/Brainstorm/Scroll engine.

You only need 1 Tyrant, and 2 0CC artifacts to get the infinite storm/mana.... right?

[DubDub]

You only need 1 Tyrant, and 2 0CC artifacts to get the infinite storm/mana.... right?

Correct, though you need a spell to bounce one of the Moxen first (or have one be in your hand).  Note that Sol Ring and Mana Vault can also generate infinite storm/mana.

[Killane]

<facepalm>

yeah..... oops my bad... zoned at that one since I'm at work... sorry folks

i think my point of needing a dedicated build to optimize Tyrant stands though. plus the negitive synergy with Null Rod hurts one of this deck's stong points in the current meta.

[MirariKnight]

I've always though Tyrant Oath can actually run Null Rod...
Just bounce it when you need to go off.

[Killane]

Ok. Point taken. But Tyrant Oath hasn't seen much play since the loss of gushbond. Aren't we trying to take Oath in a new direction here?

[MirariKnight]

I meant that you can run Tyrant+Iona+Null Rod in the same deck, which might be the best way to go. Painters Servant is definitely bad.