RWG Vault

[vassago]

I would like to begin by saying that I know this is probably not the best way of going about this combo, but it has been what I have been playing for funzee'z.  I am only bringing it up because I would like side board ideas, because I might actually play it in a tournament. The idea of the deck is pretty simple, welder shenanigans with some whacky key/vault tricks for the added "umphf".  I have played a few games against severals decks, and I have a few conclusions based on what I experienced and from obvious aspects.  Tendrils has a really sick game 1 against this deck.  So i have to have some sort of disruption for that out of the board.  Fish decks might be a problem because of the amount of dudes, so I need better spot removal. I was seriously thinking about Pyrokinesis as a one of, but am kind of reluctant to for some reason.  Anway, what do you guys think?

4 Goblin welder
4 Bazaar
2 ancient grudge
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar
2 Voltaic Key
1 Timevault
1 Rack and Ruin
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Empty the warrens
1 Mindslaver
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Balance
1 Tarrif
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Red Elemantal Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Orim's Chant

3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Stripmine
1 Wasteland
4 Red Fetches
2 Rifstone Portal
1 Barbarian Ring
1 City of brass
9 Artifacts (moxen, lotus, ring, vault, crypt)

[zeus-online]

Cannonist should serve you well against storm...As would mindcensor...although i'm not sure how many slots you're willing to use on that match-up.

Not sure about fish...With your colors, you could play plow, pyroclasm etc. or just your own tarmogoyfs. (Or some combination of those cards)

[Harlequin]

I was sorta thinking the opposite: I don't see the need for green

 1 Crop Rotate (dangerous against control)
 1 Regrow (decent, but not truely a bomb - especially alone)
 1 Life from the Loam (seams redundant with Crucible
 2 Anceint Grudge (actually good! but having played staxless stax for a while, I find that not being able to answer spinx of steelwind makes this card rather poor)

 4 Bazaar seems like overkill, especailly with 24 actual mana sources.  I'd par this back to 2 maybe 3.  With Etutor, and no real draw engin, you really only want 1 bazaar to dump cards with.

I'd do something like...

-3 green cards
-1 Grudge (keeping 1)
-1 Taiga (keeping 1)
-2 Bazaars (keeping 2)
-2 Riftstone Portal

+3 Wasteland (to 4)
+1 Crucible (to 2)
+2 Seal of Cleansing (answers Null Rod, TV-Key, Oath, and Sphinx -- tutorable with Etutor)
+1 Gorrilla Shaman or Engineered Explosives
+2 Senseis Top (welder tricks, Key Tricks, and mana/card smoothing)

The deck you've proposed here is actually very similar to a deck I'm recently 2 for 3 on top-8's with...  Here is the latest Staxless Stax list.  Its a 5c Shop version of the deck you're building here.  I'm trying to get you to switch, but you might be able to use it as a source of ideas:

3rd/4th Place ::JEFF CARPENTER::

1 Barbarian Ring
1 Horizon Canopy
4 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
2 Coalition Relic
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring

3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Memory Jar
1 Duplicant
1 Jester's Cap
2 Sensei's Divining top
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Sundering Titan
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Trinisphere
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Balance
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Crop Rotation
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault

::SIDEBOARD::

1 Granite Shard
1 Grim Poppet
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Aven Mindscensor
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Triskellion
1 Ray of Revelation
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Seal of Cleansing

[JudasKilled]

ill give you this much its deffinetly an interesting shell, but I agree green may not be the best bet.

With all the singletons I would consider black for the 3 tutors and BoBs. 
Sub rack and ruin for grudge.
Crop well black tutors can get u whatever.
Loams slow and may win you some long games but dont really stop blow outs.

My thoughts anyways.  try both out.

[Suicideking]

I think i would want fast bond in here.  With bazaar and loam it gives you some broken plays and its only one slot. 

Orims chant has been amazing in my experience versus steel city vault.  Getting your draw7 responded to with chant sucks.  Id consider the other two in the board.

[vassago]

 4 Bazaar seems like overkill, especailly with 24 actual mana sources.  I'd par this back to 2 maybe 3.  With Etutor, and no real draw engin, you really only want 1 bazaar to dump cards with.

Actually, i was using the Bazaar as the deck's main draw engine, which would explain the presence of the one of crop rotation.  I understand it's dangerous against blue decks, but I want a reliable way to fetch my draw engine.  This is going to sound really stupid, but I built this in an attempt to make a pretty good combo deck without using blue or black.  I would have to say the regrowth is kind of meh at times, but I wouldnt cut the loam, it helps fuel the enigne.  The one thing that irks me the most, is not being reliably able to fetch out tarrif or balance, my only real answers to Inkwell.  I also think the Seal would be a board card, because I have the one of swords to plowshares in the main, but it's a sick idea and I like it.  I am considering the following changes; -1 regrowth, -1 rack and ruin for +2 top. I have been thinking of a way to add top, but not quite sure if I will miss the Rack and Ruin. However between 4 welders and 2 grudges, I should be fine right?

I think i would want fast bond in here.  With bazaar and loam it gives you some broken plays and its only one slot. 

Orims chant has been amazing in my experience versus steel city vault.  Getting your draw7 responded to with chant sucks.  Id consider the other two in the board.

Fastbond does seem really sick, but I dont know what I would cut. What would you suggest? The other two chants are gointg to be in the board for sure I think.

[Suicideking]

Fastbond does seem really sick, but I dont know what I would cut. What would you suggest? The other two chants are gointg to be in the board for sure I think.

Mindslaver doesnt seem needed.  Ideally your taking all the turns anyways, you're probably better off just trying to achieve that.

[vassago]

Fastbond does seem really sick, but I dont know what I would cut. What would you suggest? The other two chants are gointg to be in the board for sure I think.

Mindslaver doesnt seem needed.  Ideally your taking all the turns anyways, you're probably better off just trying to achieve that.

The more I think about it, the more I think Fastbond seems unnecessary, it's like Loam fills that role.  I think it happens to be in the "this or that" category, and I think Loam seems to do a better job with what I want out of it in terms of performance.  The instance I see where Fastbond would hurt me more than it would help, is where I would want to Loam & bazaar lands. Do you think this might be an issue?   

[GrandpaBelcher]

Have you considered Gamble?  You're already running four Goblin Welders and a Regrowth.  Gambling for Time Vault doesn't seem like such a bad play when you can get it back from the yard pretty readily.

[Troy_Costisick]

Have you considered Gamble?  You're already running four Goblin Welders and a Regrowth.  Gambling for Time Vault doesn't seem like such a bad play when you can get it back from the yard pretty readily.

I like Gamble in this, especially if there's room for Agrivian Find as well.

[vassago]

Gamble was seriously considered. The thing that makes me shy away from this card, is I see loosing a non artifact due to the random discard thats needed in that specific instance.  Is this enough to write it off the drawing board so to say?  Or should I kind of accept it, due to the amount of wins it could produce?

[jewfro]

Bazaar seems good, you could throw in a couple of squees and up the life from the loam count if you need a better draw engine. gamble seems great.

[jaeppel]

I think something neat to test in this is mana tithe.   a set of maindeck blasts seems excessive without painter, some could be in the board.  Manatithe is a nice way to sort of timewalk to turn two, and later can nab a big eot tapout for some draw bomb.  Of course once they know you are packing heat, the opponent might try to play around tithes that arent even there.  Probably suboptimal.  here is hoping that zendikar gives us white countermagic thats any good.

Another direction i could see is running black in place of green for duress, tutors, darkblast, and hide/seek. 

Canonist would be good here.  It shuts down  combo, its an artifact so plays nice with welder, and its a wincondition.  not bad for W1.

timevault is the new mindslaver.  the two in the same deck just feels win-more to me.

burning inquiry?  just some ideas, this looks like a cool deck, and actually seems like something that could evolve into a new archetype.