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Author Topic: [Brainstorming] Savra BG Token Deck *Formerly Nath Tokens*  (Read 4554 times)
SpencerForHire
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« on: September 21, 2009, 12:45:22 am »

So with EDH becoming more popular I decided I'd have to get in on this.  I originally wanted a blue deck but after looking into my favorite cards I realized I would go a different route.

My list is rather rough having seen no action (building my first deck as it were) so I need massive input to make sure I'm not just barking up the wrong tree.  The theme of the deck is creating tokens in various manners and then sacrificing them for all kinds of different affects.  I don't necessarily have to win every game I just want to do silly things with tokens.  I've only skimmed over the total card pool so I would love card suggestions... Similarly, there are a few cards such as Puppeteer Clique and Spiritmonger which have nothing to do with the theme but I really like them so I want them in the deck (scrubby eh?)

The manabase is also a work in progress and I suspect many of the basic lands will become other neat cards.

Cards I'd love to hear about:
* cheap/efficient token generators that generate multiple tokens and do it fast.
* strong mana acceleration that is worth running in EDH, I would rather cards that stick around for more than a turn as opposed to dark rituals and the like.
* sacrifice affects worth a damn.  

Without further adieu:

Token BG

// Lands
    1  Bayou
    1  Overgrown Tomb
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1  Cabal Pit
    1  Gaea's Cradle
    15  Swamp
    15  Forest
    1  Pendelhaven
    1  Phyrexian Tower
    1  Urborg
    1  Golgari Rot Farm

// Creatures
    1  Solemn Simulacrum
    1  Eternal Witness
    1  Spiritmonger
    1  Sadistic Hypnotist
    1  Deranged Hermit
    1  Squirrel Wrangler
    1  Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
    1  Drumhunter
    1  Puppeteer Clique
    1  Phyrexian Plaguelord
    1  Krosan Tusker
    1  Elves of Deep Shadow
    1  Llanowar Elves
    1  Fyndhorn Elves
    1  Noble Hierarch
    1  Fallen Angel
    1  Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
    1  Thelonite Hermit
    1  Nemata, Grove Guardian
    1  Mycoloth
    1  Mongrel Pack
    1  Creakwood Liege
    1  Ant Queen
    1  Master of the Wild Hunt
    1  Tar Fiend

// Spells
    1  Makeshift Mannequin
    1  Reprocess
    1  Garruk Wildspeaker
    1  Liliana Vess
    1  Mind Twist
    1  Necromancy
    1  Maelstrom Pulse
    1  Attrition
    1  Squirrel Nest
    1  Earthcraft
    1  Pernicious Deed
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Skullclamp
    1  Regrowth
    1  Saproling Burst
    1  Acorn Harvest
    1  Crop Rotation
    1  Chord of Calling
    1  Skeletal Scrying
    1  Beacon of Creation
    1  Barter in Blood
    1  Sudden Death
    1  Plague Boiler
    1  Krosan Grip
    1  Mind's Eye
    1  Dread Return
    1  Putrefy
    1  Golgari Germination
    1  Natural Order
    1  Seize the Soul

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Nath of the Gilt-Leaf


Can you tell I'm not a deck builder?  This monster needs alot of work before it's even worth sleeving up in my opinion so I'd love to hear your ideas and opinions.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 10:39:54 am by SpencerForHire » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 09:42:24 am »

First off, while I've seen a Nath deck do some silly things before (Words of Waste, Geth's Grimoire), it sounds more like the general you want is Savra, Queen of the Golgari.

First off, you can expect at least 1/3 of players to have some kind of board-sweeping effects, be they Disks or just simple Wraths or a mass-damage spell like Firespout. What this implies is that I almost always want my mana acceleration to be in the form of Wood Elves rather than Birds of Paradise. The land sticks around, the creature doesn't. So IMO the general green mana package begins with:

Sakura-Tribe Elder
Kodama's Reach
Search for Tomorrow
Rampant Growth
Explosive Vegetation
Harrow

Yavimaya Elder/Civic Wayfinder/Borderland Ranger/Krosan Tusker (fixing, not accel)
and if you are using the appropriate duals, Wood Elves, Seedguide Ash, Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, and Farseek are useful
for mana artifacts, Solemn Simulacrum and Darksteel Ingot are good in almost any deck



Next, specific card notes. You've got a lot of the classics, so that's good. I tried Mongrel Pack but didn't like how it could only get tokens if it died in combat (being sacced in Declare Attackers usually) but YMMV.

Bitterblossom of course belongs!

Algae Gharial is cute, as is Scavenger Drake. I think shroud might be better than flying.

Woebringer Demon should be much more of a pain for your opponents than you.

Puppeteer Clique actually is very good in a deck like this; besides the obvious "attack with your guy" plan, you'll be able to trigger his persist on demand, and he serves as graveyard removal for recurring effects. Seeing an Angel of Despair wave bye-bye is good.

I think you'll find that Mind Twist and Strip Mine don't really do enough to justify themselves in a multiplayer format. Mana Vault too, although maybe the boost is worth it.

Acorn Harvest is just too inefficient. There are better ways of getting fuel for sacrifices.

You DEFINITELY need a Doubling Season and Grave Pact, they're probably the best things you can do in a deck like this.

You probably want a little more removal; Shriekmaw is the best (can be sacrificed with the trigger on the stack), but Bone Shredder, Nekrataal, and Faceless Butcher are also all strong. The Butcher trick will kill any targetable non-General. Ritual of the Machine is good too, but the nonblack restriction actually comes up a lot. Urborg Justice is also neat.

Nether Traitor functions a lot like a token-maker, in that he provides fuel for many, many sacrifices. Brood of Cockroaches too, although it requires a little more mana and life, but it can chump block like a pro.

Woodfall Primus can be sacrificed multiple times (see below for synergy!), and has a good effect each time.

If you switch your mana creatures to ones with CIP effects, you won't feel bad about sacrificing them to things, and then you can start doing recursion effects like Oversold Cemetary and Gleancrawler and Phyrexian Reclamation.

Necrogenesis is a good, cheap token maker, and good, cheap, graveyard control, both of which are great effects. Coffin Queen too, because sacrificing an opponent's creature is kind of like sacrificing your own token.

Sylvan Library doesn't have any particular synergy, but it's good when you have 40 life to play with.

Verdant Force is a classic token-maker: EACH upkeep!

Spawning Pit is a wonderful way to sacrifice stuff on demand, and gives you some Wrath insurance. Also insane with Doubling Season.

Shambling Shell is an alright dude. Not super impressive but he does his job without fail (+1/+1 cancels out Persist on P.Clique and Woodfall Primus, for example). Krovikan Horror is another dude who can do a lot of legwork.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 09:46:31 am by Matt » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 11:48:12 am »

It's really funny because cards such as verdant force I had considered but was concerned it would be too slow for the format.  I will update the list with some changes (including a likely switch to Savra) and post the revisions soon!  Thanks Matt!

Edit:  I have a few card choices I'm wondering about.  Is Krosan Grip and/or Plague Boiler that crucial?  I keep Deed because it's a straight bomb in it's own right and gives me an answer to random cards.  But with Primus and other more diverse spot removal do I necessarily need more board clear and enchantment/artifact hate?

Edit2:  The newest version of the list is done.  I found it extremely difficult to cut this list down to 99 cards and a general so from this point forward I need to be extremely analytical over card choices as I want to make sure I'm running the best choices to have a synergistic list.  I'm mildly concerned about things like do I have the right removal, too much, too little?  My other concern is my manabase.  I want to be certain that I have the right land count: if I'm not mistaken I run a current 35 lands, and 14 fixers/finders/artifact mana.

// Lands
    1  Bayou
    1  Overgrown Tomb
    1  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1  Cabal Pit
    11  Forest
    10  Swamp
    1  Gaea's Cradle
    1  Pendelhaven
    1  Urborg
    1  Golgari Rot Farm
    1  Phyrexian Tower
    1  Vivid Grove
    1  Vivid Marsh
    1  Shizo, Death's Storehouse
    1  Thawing Glaciers
    1  Llanowar Wastes

// Creatures
    1  Solemn Simulacrum
    1  Eternal Witness
    1  Spiritmonger
    1  Sadistic Hypnotist
    1  Deranged Hermit
    1  Squirrel Wrangler
    1  Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
    1  Puppeteer Clique
    1  Phyrexian Plaguelord
    1  Fallen Angel
    1  Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
    1  Krosan Tusker
    1  Thelonite Hermit
    1  Mycoloth
    1  Creakwood Liege
    1  Ant Queen
    1  Master of the Wild Hunt
    1  Nemata, Grove Guardian
    1  Tar Fiend
    1  Nekrataal
    1  Yavimaya Elder
    1  Wood Elves
    1  Shriekmaw
    1  Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1  Lord of Extinction
    1  Nether Traitor
    1  Woodfall Primus
    1  Verdant Force
    1  Coffin Queen

// Spells
    1  Garruk Wildspeaker
    1  Liliana Vess
    1  Maelstrom Pulse
    1  Attrition
    1  Squirrel Nest
    1  Earthcraft
    1  Pernicious Deed
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Skullclamp
    1  Regrowth
    1  Seize the Soul
    1  Natural Order
    1  Crop Rotation
    1  Dread Return
    1  Beacon of Creation
    1  Barter in Blood
    1  Skeletal Scrying
    1  Mind's Eye
    1  Putrefy
    1  Grave Pact
    1  Doubling Season
    1  Bitterblossom
    1  Darksteel Ingot
    1  Nature's Lore
    1  Harrow
    1  Rampant Growth
    1  Search for Tomorrow
    1  Kodama's Reach
    1  Reprocess
    1  Sylvan Library
    1  Necrogenesis
    1  Oversold Cemetery

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Savra, Queen of the Golgari
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 12:59:21 pm by SpencerForHire » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 01:09:48 pm »

Is there any particular reason you don't want to run either Cabal Coffers, Vesuva, or both?  Even without having Urborg, Tomb out, you still run 12 Swamps, which can make some nutty plays happen.  On top of that, you run Urborg, Crop Rotation, Liliana, Demonic, Vamp, etc.  Sure, you have Gaea's Cradle, but why untap Cradle with Garruk, when you can untap Cradle AND Coffers?
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 04:14:37 pm »

I'm not a huge fan of Shizo and the other lands like it (Shinka, Okina, the white one...Eiganjo Castle?) if they don't have any particular synergy. I'm worried about getting them Strip Mined by the legend rule. That's an acceptable risk when your general benefits from those abilities (Kresh looooves getting Fear), but yours is not an "attacking" kind of general.
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SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 05:21:38 pm »

My manabase is largely undeveloped.  I definately considered Cabal Coffers but was very torn on running it.  I thought it would be a "win more" on the side of Cradle but as I do have to dig through 97 other cards just to see cradle I'll go ahead and throw coffers in (In place of shizo even).
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