Mono U post-Zendikar - viable?

[scipio]

I've been working on a new list and was hoping for some input:

Mono-U

Control Elements (28 cards)

Force of Will X 4
Spell Pierce X 3
Mana Drain X 4
Mystic Remora X 4
Augury Adept X 4
Stifle X 3
Gilded Drake X 2
Null Rod X 4

Win Conditions (2 cards):

Meloku X 1
Darksteel Colossus or Inkwell X 1

Restricted Cards (11)

Time Walk X 1
Fact or Fiction X 1
Ancestral Recall X 1
Black Lotus X 1
Mana Vault X 1
Mana Crypt X 1
Mox Sapphire X 1
Sol Ring X 1
Tinker X 1
Merchant Scroll X 1
Mystical Tutor X 1

Land (19)
Polluted Delta X 3
Flooded Strand X 3
Tolarian Academy
Island X 12

SB:
Tormod’s Crypt X 3
Pithing Needle X 4
Hurkyl’s Recall X 2
Energy Flux X 4
Propaganda X 2

Card choices:

Control: Force of Will and Mana Drain seem like obvious inclusions.  Spell Pierce and Stifle are the optional control elements.  I would consider MisD or Spell Snare as alternatives to those.  Singleton MisD in place of 1 pierce may be a good option.  Stifle seems quite versatile in the current metagame.  I prefer null rod here over needle or chalice, despite the fact that it hits my artificat mana.  Should still be able to make this asymmetrical and can tinker away nulled out artifacts if need be. I left out spellstutter and glen elendra archmage, though those might be an option - especially if I trade out drake for sower.

Card Advantage: Remora, Adept.  Adept seems better than selkie if I can't pump the 1/1, despite the lack of evasion.  While not strictly better than ophidian, the lifegain and damage dealt make a strong case for adept.  Remora has worked in this shell in the past, and seems a logical inclusion. Ancestral and FoF help out here.

Answers: Gilded Drake - not tutorable, but neither are sower or control magic.  2 mana cheaper seals the deal for me.  Sucks if they're playing Inkwell, but splashes against oath.

Wins: Meloku can stall weenie hoards (though aggro will probably chew up this deck anyway), Inkwell seems the optimum choice and could conceivably be hardcast with drain mana.

Search: A weakness, singleton mystical and merchant scroll are painful.  I'm hoping the card advantage and countermagic negate the lack of silver bullet answers.

Sideboard is a work-in-progress.

This deck may be inherently weaker than the current 3-color aggro-control strategies.  My feeling is that those are quite dependent on too many fragile lock pieces which create an inferior lock compared to stax (teeg, canonist, null rod, pridemage, etc) and suffer from a more fragile manabase.  While not an original deck (I searched for recent posts with no luck), it seems like a decent starting point for a relative novice.  I also considered putting in a Waste/Strip package or maindeck BtoBasics.  Thoughts?

[personalbackfire]

Card Advantage:   Remora has worked in this shell in the past, and seems a logical inclusion. Ancestral and FoF help out here.

One thing to consider is that since the restriction of TFK and everyone began running Bobs, Remora has gotten much worse. The reason is because if you play Remora then start to stall, all I have to do is play Bob and im beating you in card advantage, and likely in life because I will be attacking every turn.

[scipio]

One thing to consider is that since the restriction of TFK and everyone began running Bobs, Remora has gotten much worse. The reason is because if you play Remora then start to stall, all I have to do is play Bob and im beating you in card advantage, and likely in life because I will be attacking every turn.

That's a good point. What one-drop would you use to replace Remora.  I had considered main deck pithing needle, bounce (chain of vapor), or increasing the counter count (daze, spellstutter).  Any of those options seem better?

[John Jones]

You should run that 0/4 for U in the new set that way you have blockers all day for fish decks.
I personally would test out 1-2 misdirections and 1-2 mindbreak traps.

I really see no reason to go u/b though because you get 4x Bob, 1x will, 1x vamp, 1x Demonic. However, if you're already at this point mise well play tezz. As for DSC or Inky, I would run Inky. Dsc really really sucks, not only can it be hit by welders and bounce, it can also be edicted. Unless you some how manage to put 4x TFK in DSC will not be good anymore.

Cards you are missnig?
+1 Brainstorm
+1 Ponder
+1 Lotus Petal

Cards that make no sense in the deck
+1 Mana Crypt (you're going for the long game, in the long game you will die to this)

Also instead of Augury I think you shuould run AK

MODIFY:
4 Spell pierce
4 drain
4 FoW
1 Miss D
1 Recall
1 Walk
1 Mystical
1 merch Scroll
1 FoF
1 Bstorm
1 Ponder

4 Standstill
1 E.truth
1 Rebuild
1 Tinker
2 Crucible
3 null rod
2 Vendillion Clique
1 nullstone gargoyle
1 Comendeer

1 Lotus
1 Petal
1 Sapphire
1 Library of Alexandria

4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
4 Mishras Factory
6x Fetches
5x Islands

[BruiZar]

If you play with remora and drake i would play with repeal (bounces 20/20 marit lage too)

Nullstone Gargoyle sucks. AK sucks too because its 1) not fast, 2) graveyard dependent.

Also, I see no reason to run Crucible. Strip lock isn't a good excuse when you can't get rid of moxen and run not stifles. I would even go as far as not running fetch, just Islands which gives you a better match up against BUG fish and Selkie strike (making their stifles+wastelands become worthless). Consequently, I'd remove the Factories.

Back to Basics is not worth it. I'd actually run something like Cryptic Command because it allows you to get some card advantage going.

[John Jones]

You do realize that in that deck right there I proposed I run 4x waste and 1 x strip, not to mention, my main win condition is a 2/2 land. Nullstone gargoyle is awesome but i'm just trying to find the right deck for it. The way I see it, MUC needs to slow down the game to a point where you get to the long run. There are three runs in vintage, the short run (super combo like storm/belcher/mirror) which tends to want to win the game within the first 0-3 turns. Then you have the Midrange run which consist of your 4-10 turn wins (avg), which are like your tezzeretts where you can pop vault key turn 2 and gg or its the longer game where you win with tinker target. It is also your fish, workshop aggro, oaths (although this they aim to win turn 1 lol), and most casual homebrew decks. Then finally, you have the long run which are your decks that are meant to slow the game to a literal standstill and just chip away at his life total while controlling the game via card advantage and cheap/free counterspells. To get this game into the long run, MUC must control the game from the beginning that is why there is mana denial and heavy spell manipulation. However, in the long run you’re going to have used up a number of counterspells, this is where nullstone comes in. It makes them use up their spells while you are then able just counter their edict/hurkyls/relevant spell.

Furthermore, it’s also a drain deck so it SHOULD follow the behavior of most drain decks and be able to cast things with higher mana costs, especially if it is colorless mana being used. Is going toward artifacts (leaving your islands untapped….) like crucible and null rod. Now, the only reason I include Rod instead of Countertop is because I am running 4x waste + 1x strip which is very very good in the format right now considering stax/mud is rising in popularity (and what do you know they run like 0 basics), 3-4 color decks are popular (See: Noble Fish, See: Steel City), as well as hates on ichorid by way of killing bazaar all the time. Remember people, if they have no mana, they can’t play spells.

Now you say AK sucks and you’re wrong. AK does not suck, it might not be the best choice right now but it isn’t terrible considering it is probably the best draw engine right now besides BoB (remora is really bad because the format isn’t a mucousy glob of tezzeret). Also, most people will not sb in crypts or leylines unless you are a heavy grave yard dependent deck like stax or ichorid or steelcity.

The list I made yesterday was off the top of my head, looking at it again I think I would make these changes. Also not one person mentioned back to basics besides you so I’m not sure where you were going with that…

3 Spell pierce
4 drain
4 FoW
2 mindbreak trap
1 Recall
1 Walk
1 Mystical
2 stifle
1 FoF
1 Bstorm
1 Ponder

4 Standstill
1 E.truth
1 Rebuild
1 Tinker
2 Crucible
3 null rod


2 Vendillion Clique
1 nullstone gargoyle

1 Lotus
1 Petal
1 Sapphire
1 Library of Alexandria (not sure if its worth it)
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
4 Mishras Factory
5x Fetches (fetches are good because they allow you to thin your deck to ensure you draw coutnerspells)
5x Islands

[scipio]

I considered repeal, but missed the synergy with both drake and remora.  That seems like a good choice for bounce as may permanents are fairly low costed right now, and the dark depths combo will probably pop up, at least in the early going. 

The AK engine is quite slow, while adept+remora would give me enough card advantage in addition to putting a clock on the table while competing with opposing Bob's. 

At this point, I need to test.  I thought the waste/strip/crucible package took up a ton of space and that many decks were packing enough basics (esp with the new enemy fetch's) to dodge it. 

Gargoyle is interesting as a sideboard choice against certain decks, but I would still start out with inkwell.  The fetches are risky but help thin the deck for the long game.

Thanks for all of the input.

[John Jones]

4 drain
4 FoW
2 mindbreak trap (unimpressed with this card, I'm thinkin +1 misdirection and +1 Spell snare)
3 Spell pierce (this card is good)
1 Recall
1 Walk
1 Mystical
3 stifle (very very nice in combination with the wasteland package)
1 FoF

1 Bstorm
1 Ponder
4 Standstill (This card is great and is always +3 cards)
1 E.truth
1 Rebuild
2 Crucible
3 null rod

1 Tinker
2 Vendillion Clique (good to put tinker target back as well as disruption)
1 nullstone gargoyle (needs new tinker target, I don't think it should be sphinx or inky maybe titan?

1 Lotus
1 Petal
1 Sapphire
1 Library of Alexandria (not sure if its worth it, Ive drawn it twice and it was useless both times, im going to continue testing with it though and if I was going to change it, it would become an island)
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
4 Mishras Factory
5x Fetches
5x Islands

[Bera]

I'm not a fan of loa currently, it's to slow for the format. I think inkwell should be the MD tinker card as it doesn't get hit by welder and it pitches to force, sphinx is another option but I'm not a fan of it.

Here's what I've been working on

8 fetch
8 island
1 lotus
1 sapphire
1 sol ring
1 petal
4 wasteland
1 strip mine

2 vendilion clique
4 ophidian
1 inkwell leviathan

4 force of will
4 mana drain
4 null rod
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle (Might become Shadow of Doubt)
1 rebuild

1 ancestral recall
1 timewalk
1 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 gush
1 merchant scroll
1 mystical tutor
1 fact or fiction
1 thirst for knowledge
1 tinker

SB
3 Mana Leak
3 Sower of Temptation
2 Back to Basics
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Pithing Needle
2 Trinket Mage

[vassago]

I have been running this lately, and it's pretty good.  I might have ROFL-stomped a 9 man tournament at Gamer's Inn last night.     It is most certainly related to the subject matter.  To answer the question proposed in the title, yes it is viable. 

4 drain
4 fow
3 spell pierce
2 v click
4 ophidian
4 mana leak
2 sower
3 repeal
1 MisD
1 echoing truth
1 rebuild
1 merchant scroll
1 ancestral
1 timewalk
1 bstorm
1 ponder
1 fof
1 tfk
1 top
2 delta
1 strand
1 misty rainforest
1 scalding tarn
6 island
5 moxen
lotus
sol ring
LOA
stripmine
4 wasteland