Creature Nullrod

[SpencerForHire]

We were at the RIW legacy tournament yesterday when Paul Miastriano started talking about a creature nullrod and how interesting/sick it would be.  I came up with the following idea and I'm curious to see what the community thinks.  I'd also like to add some flavor to it.


Angry Hooting Monkey (Please help name me)
{R/G} {R/G}
Creature - Ape Shaman
Whenever a player uses an activated ability of an artifact, that player sacrifices that artifact.
1/1


Current Version:
Shattering Monkey
{R/G} {R/G}
Creature - Ape Shaman
Whenever a player uses an activated ability of an artifact, that player sacrifices that artifact.
1/1

[Yare]

Boisterous Baboon
{R/G} {R/G}
Creature - Ape Shaman
Whenever a player activates an artifact's ability, that player sacrifices that artifact.
1/1

(Wording per Haunting Wind)

[Darkenslight]

The wording would probably be better as 'Whenever a player plays an activated ability of an artifact, its controller sacrifices it."

A fun alternative for White would be to exile the artifact for a turn or two instead.

[SpencerForHire]

The creature doesn't have to be loud in the name, I just was making a monkey reference since this is a crossbreed between a mox monkey and a sex monkey.

I'm open to all sorts of suggestions but I would like it to be a monkey.

[Harlequin]

That seems extremely powerful, especially on a guy with legs.  I would think that a 2/2 for 2 with "Creatures cannot be equiped" would be good.  Which this is, and much much more.

I think you might be able to get away with it if it had a drawback...

Whenever an a player activates and ability of an artifact destroy that artifact and ~this~ deals 1 damage to you.

That way its really good (in that it basically makes most artifacts unplayable), but dangerous. Because It means they can use something like Chimeric Idol to kill you.   Or even just build up a bunch of artivatable artifacts in play, and activate them all at once for the win.

[thorme]

Power-wise I think this is fine as-is.  There is probably room to make it more interesting...something along these lines:

Mechanical Bull
2
Artifact Creature - Bull
Whenever an artifact becomes tapped, destroy that artifact at end of turn.
3/1


Having the trigger being artifacts becoming tapped is a nod to Johnny who might want to come up with ways to abuse that - also seems simpler.  Also, the fact that you can swing once adds a bit of utility without making it a win-condition on its own.

[SpencerForHire]

Your version is ridiculously more powerful as an anti aggro shop device and makes Tangle Wire ridiculous...  Furthermore my ability does not limit non-tapping artifacts to only using their ability once...

Activate Karn to make my Smokestack a creature.
Monkey-sac goes on the stack.
In response, activate Karn to make Sphere of Resistance a creature.
Monkey-sac goes on the stack.
Etc..
Etc....

I have yet to see a compelling reason why my version is overpowered.  As a 1/1 it dies to every bit of creature removal, meaning Darkblast is going to eat this guy up, it's harder to remove a null rod than a 1/1.  This also has massive color restrictions in vintage where this creature is neither black nor blue (making him only good in a creature deck, where count sideboarding in the form of creature hate is already a should-be).


Edit: I'm just waiting for a comment about monkey-sac.

[Darkenslight]

What about the name Shattering Monkey?  It's a riff on Shattering Pulse, and it seems in flavour.

[thorme]

Your version is ridiculously more powerful as an anti aggro shop device and makes Tangle Wire ridiculous...  Furthermore my ability does not limit non-tapping artifacts to only using their ability once...
...
I have yet to see a compelling reason why my version is overpowered.  As a 1/1 it dies to every bit of creature removal, meaning Darkblast is going to eat this guy up, it's harder to remove a null rod than a 1/1...

Not sure why you would ever play my version in the same deck as Tangle Wire.  Running a card that makes you destroy most of your own cards seems pretty silly.  Also, artifact critters are the most fragile cards in game - easier to remove than both a null rod and any old 1/1.

Anway, just a suggestion - this thread is about your card, and I agree with you that your version is not overpowered, a 1/1 for 2 mana with an ability the opponent has some control over (when to use their artifact abilities) seems fine to me.

[Anusien]

I like it.  I wonder if this is weak enough such that it could be a 2/1 for R/G R/G.

[Godder]

This could be a 2/2 for RG quite easily, I think. You might have to make it more like "non-mana activated abilities of artifacts cannot be played", though.

[Matt]

This could be a 2/2 for RG quite easily, I think. You might have to make it more like "non-mana activated abilities of artifacts cannot be played", though.

That "nonmana" clause would rather defeat the point, though. I assume a big part of the purpose here is to hate on moxen.

[SpencerForHire]

This card in general wants to be able to hit all artifacts that it can, so I would rather not make a non-mana producing clause in it.

@thorme: I'm sorry to be arguementative  I just don't think that the tap clause does what I want the card to do nor is particularly fair.

Lastly, the other bodes I had for this card included a 2/1 for but I think I'm much happier not being forced to play BOTH those colors.  Would it be fair to make this guy a 2/1 in his current state?  Anusien thinks so, I'd like a general consensus before altering it.

Note:  In my brainstorming I actually considered making him this:
R/G R/G
Creature - Ape Shaman On Crack
Whenever a player activates or triggers an artifact's ability, that player sacrifices that artifact.
2/2

[AmbivalentDuck]

To be truly effective, it has to make Tez/Oath/Steel City run a card that they don't already run main. So:
-It can't be an artifact (Rebuild/Hurkyl's main)
-It has to have 2+ toughness (ideally 3) (Darkblast, Fire/Ice)
-It has to come down turn 1 or otherwise evade Drain.

Maybe take the same ability and put it on a 3/2 goblin for 1RG with flash?  The goblin creature type lets it come down off Lackey and flash evades Drain by happening during your opponent's end step, or even in response to tapping out for Yawg Will/Tez/etc.  Or maybe a 1/3 for 1GG is more natural?

[Guli]

A walking rod, something i am waiting for for a long time. I think you guys should be more direct. We want a null rod that has a body nothing less. This means there should not be any destruction involved in my opinion.

Artifact creature - Spirit

Activated abilities of artifacts can’t be activated.

2/2

The whole idea is to replace null rod with a body to create tempo. Btw this card being printed would be a wet dream for me.

Fair?

- The color restriction
- Vulnerable to artifact and creature hate
- Hurts you as well just like Null Rod would
- It isn't very create

+ You get one of the most strongest disruptive bears (2/2)
+ It is efficient, no new fancy stuff

Feedback?

[AmbivalentDuck]

The whole idea is to replace null rod with a body to create tempo. Btw this card being printed would be a wet dream for me.

Not at all, playing this makes you even more vulnerable to Pyroclasm.  This gets infi stronger as an X/3.

[SpencerForHire]

I think there is a point when taking an old card in it's exactness and giving it legs is pretty much lame.  Sure some of those cards are good, but overall very uninteresting and just downright disappointing to think about.  Secondly, why do you assume that the only use for my card is as a Tezz hate card? 

I want this to be a cheap efficient card that is playable, it dies to creature removal... great!  I think creatures should die to creature removal.  It dies to current creature removal run by decks you want to hate, GOOD!  It is perfectly fine that it does not open any new doors for any decks, it does however cause a more difficult situation should you say have this and a Null Rod out and your opponent has to win this turn.  Does he have the answers he needs?  Making the cards diverse in type, not diverse from what is out there now as far as weaknesses is what counts; it is more difficult for an opponent to find answers for both hate cards as opposed to one, that is the benefit of such a card.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Creating useful creatures with butts bigger than x/2 means that the Pyroclasm tech will need to be abandoned in favor of Wrath/Damnation/Balance.  One 2cc spell should never destroy your board position.

Manaclasm 1R, Sorcery, Split second, Destroy artifacts with CMC=0 and all nonbasic land.  (Sick and unprintable.)
Pyroclasm, 1R, Sorcery, Destroy all non-Llurghoyf creatures that were not put into play by a spell named Tinker.
Articlasm, 1R, Sorcery, Destroy all artifacts  (Hurkyl's is close...)
Handclasm, 1B, Sorcery, All opponents discard all but one card in their hand.

Or my wet dream:
Broken-clasm, 1B, Sorcery, Each player may choose to search an opponent's library for up to 3 cards and exile them.  Each player whose library was searched shuffles it.

[Darkenslight]

What about this design?

Negating Shaman   
Creature - Human Shaman
As an additional cost to cast Negating Shaman, return an artifact you control to its owner's hand.
Flash
Activated abilities of artifacts can't be played.
3/4

[Guli]

What about this design?

Negating Shaman  
Creature - Human Shaman
As an additional cost to cast Negating Shaman, return an artifact you control to its owner's hand.
Flash
Activated abilities of artifacts can't be played.
3/4

I like the approach on this one, I would like to change the color and interchange a variable.


Creature - Suppressing ?

Activated abilities cost   more to play
Flash

3/4

The idea of a walking rod that could be have synergy with null rod itself is not bad. Kataki for example is strong with rod but it also has a factor of dis-synergy.
So its a walking hybrid of suppression/rod,with ups and downs.

[Guli]

The whole idea is to replace null rod with a body to create tempo. Btw this card being printed would be a wet dream for me.

Not at all, playing this makes you even more vulnerable to Pyroclasm.  This gets infi stronger as an X/3.

It has to be a little balanced. Beats for 2 while giving a null rod effect, strong enough, while he is in play a TV deck can't combo. Making it immune to pyroclasm/massacre should not be a criteria. I think it is strong enough and it should be removable. I can be convinced in taking away the artifact type to make it 'less' vulnerable to rebuild, hurk recall and to avoid splash damage for artifact hate.