Revisiting Landstill

[Stormanimagus]

Hey all you TMDers!

So I've been contemplating the layout of Vintage right now and have been looking for a deck that might have the cajones to trump the current strategies being employed.

It seems that right now there are some specific threats that must be addressed or you will lose:

1. Volt/Key
2. Ichorid
3. Stax decks with Tangle Wire and Bazaar + Welder
4. The Traditional Tinker-->Robot and Yawgwin package
5. Random Beatz/Fish Strategies

Now I don't claim to have a deck that Trumps ALL these strategies simultaneously, but I do have an idea for a deck that might have space to develop answers to many of them.

It starts with a card that I'm fascinated with and want to "break."

Steppe Lynx          

Creature — Cat

Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, Steppe Lynx gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

Now that's a deceptively nice beater!

Here's the thing. I really only see this little Cat doing big things in 3 possible decks:

1. Some GW beatz shell with a decently high land count (though this is a faint prospect)
2. Some Combo deck like Gro that runs Fastbond (this could be fun to tinker with)
3. Landstill (This seems the most synergystic and simple and is what I'll discuss here).

Simply put, Steppe Lynx might be what Landstill has been looking for to put it over the edge against combo and aggro. It really needs a way to slam the door once it obtains control of the game and 2/2 Factories just never used to cut it. However, a creature that can be 4/5 on many turns (when played correctly) can be pretty devastating to most decks. Especially when it's at the lowly cost of   to get it out on the field.

I am, of course, open to any and all suggestions, but here is my first run at such a deck:

SteppeStill

Land (24):
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Library Of Alexandria

Artifacts (8):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Null Rod
2 Crucible Of Worlds

Enchantments (4):
4 Standstill

Creatures (4):
4 Steppe Lynx

Instants  (19):
4 Force Of Will
4 Daze
4 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
3 Cunning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
4 Path To Exile
1 Swords To Plowshares
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
x6 ?

I open it up to discussion. I really think this shell of 4 Steppe Lynx + 4 Standstill + 4 Daze + 4 FoW could co in many different directions. Those are the key components of the deck IMHO and most anything and everything else is up for debate. Thoughts?

-Storm

[Yare]

Oboro, Palace in the Clouds seems like an auto-inclusion.

[senpai]

why? it seems that would only open you up to wastelands...

[Yare]

why? it seems that would only open you up to wastelands...

Because he already has four basics, so cutting down to three isn't a big deal if you're running six fetches. Is it slightly more vulnerable to Wasteland? Yes. But it also lets you replay lands for Steppe Lynx more easily, which I think, on the whole, is more important.

[senpai]

i see, i missed that interaction.

[scifiantihero]

I love landstill, so I would be very excited to see this become viable again!

Would a Tinker/robot take up too much space in this deck?  I used to run it in u/w, but not u/r. 

Is cunning wish fast enough for the current vintage?

[Hellsing293]

Does balance have a place in this deck?  Seems strong against creature strategies since you only run 4.  You have Crucibles to replay the lands too.  Playing Balance then Standstill could be a good play, since you could wipe their board and then make them pay the price for trying to recover from Balance.

[ErkBek]

How is Steppe Lynx better than Tarmogoyf?

If you're running creatures in Landstill, they probably should be disruptive too. Outside of Tarmogoyf, Vendilion Clique and Aven Mindcensor are the only 2 creatures I could ever imagine running in Landstill.

[Stormanimagus]

How is Steppe Lynx better than Tarmogoyf?

If you're running creatures in Landstill, they probably should be disruptive too. Outside of Tarmogoyf, Vendilion Clique and Aven Mindcensor are the only 2 creatures I could ever imagine running in Landstill.

Well, in theory it is a 4/5 for a couple turns that costs 1 mana instead of 2. Tarmogoyf often is only a 2/3 or a 3/4 the turn after you play it and this little Cat can be a 4/5 the turn after you play it. That can be pretty huge. I really wish we could have all seen what this little monster would have looked like in a world with Gush Unrestricted and the Gush-Bond engine still around. I think it is probably marginal, but worth testing in this meta.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

How is Steppe Lynx better than Tarmogoyf?

If you're running creatures in Landstill, they probably should be disruptive too. Outside of Tarmogoyf, Vendilion Clique and Aven Mindcensor are the only 2 creatures I could ever imagine running in Landstill.

Well, in theory it is a 4/5 for a couple turns that costs 1 mana instead of 2. Tarmogoyf often is only a 2/3 or a 3/4 the turn after you play it and this little Cat can be a 4/5 the turn after you play it.

I think it's pretty obvious that unless you have Crucible out and are fetching every turn, Goyf will do more damage in the long run.  If Lynx was a 4/5 every turn, obviously it would be great, but it is simply too conditional; often it is only going to be a 2/3, and often it will just sit there looking stupid.  Add to this the fact that it dies to Darkblast and Fire Ice, the most commonly played removal in the format, and the card seems quite weak.  

I know that 1 mana makes a difference, especially in Landstill, but I would play Goyf or Confidant over this in a heartbeat.  If you want a 1 drop I would play Grim Lavamancer, since it helps with creature/board control, something that Landstill often has problems with.

Also, what is up with the Cunning Wishes?  They are very mana intensive--I would probably rather just have bounce in those slots, since you really don't want to spend an extra 2U when you need to answer something on the board.  If you are worried about the cards being dead, just use Repeal/Rebuild.

[waffles]

if you are going for a GW shell, an easy way to boost it to crazy lvls is to use fastbond/scouting trek/horn of greed. for a larger boost use zuran orb/planar birth

Scouting Trek:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=22317

Horn of Greed:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5172

Planar Birth
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5766

Scouting trek+Horn is a crazy land draw engine. throw in fastbond and presto you have 20 lands in which to boost your lynx up with in a single turn. total gain is +40/+40 assuming 20 lands played

and for those who just love excessive force throw in zuran orb+Planar Birth; after your lands were played through the aforementioned trek/horn/bond combo; sack them to zuran orb to get them into your graveyard cast planar birth, brings back all ur lands since the lynx doesnt care how they got there just that they got there the lynx gains another +40/+40. for a grand total of an 80/81 kitty

another option is to go fastbond+Sunder(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5599)

[BruiZar]

You are forgetting that there are going to be turns where you don't have any lands in your hand and you arent top decking them either, but landstill will be on the table. That makes you attack with a 0/1 lynx. Not so impressive

[waffles]

You are forgetting that there are going to be turns where you don't have any lands in your hand and you arent top decking them either, but landstill will be on the table. That makes you attack with a 0/1 lynx. Not so impressive

Trade Routes could be an answer to that see here: (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19675)

[BruiZar]

You are forgetting that there are going to be turns where you don't have any lands in your hand and you arent top decking them either, but landstill will be on the table. That makes you attack with a 0/1 lynx. Not so impressive

Trade Routes could be an answer to that see here: (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19675)

So you need Trade Routes, Steppe Lynx and Standstill in play. Not really worth it. Besides that Trade Routes only gives you 1 land drop so 2 damage per turn for a 3 card combo isn't really impressive.

[waffles]

You are forgetting that there are going to be turns where you don't have any lands in your hand and you arent top decking them either, but landstill will be on the table. That makes you attack with a 0/1 lynx. Not so impressive

Trade Routes could be an answer to that see here: (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19675)

So you need Trade Routes, Steppe Lynx and Standstill in play. Not really worth it. Besides that Trade Routes only gives you 1 land drop so 2 damage per turn for a 3 card combo isn't really impressive.

but if its used in G/U or W/U shell lands in your hand arent that hard to get. black/Red/blue can kind of do it but not to the extent that G or W can.

[Stormanimagus]

I think that everything that people are saying is correct and, in gold-fishing the deck as I posted it, it really is pretty weak to run the Lynx. I'd still like to find a home for the Lynx, but that might be in a more GW/x Cats deck that runs Fastbond and perhaps even some explorations. I'm gonna start messing around with the more combo-y approach and get back to you all soon. As for this thread, I'd still like to discuss Landstill and the possible future for the deck as I think it may be in a decent position to do well. The fact that it is a deck that can now run Spell Pierce is HUGE in shoring up turn 1 against a great many decks. It just needs a decent answer to Aggro and I think it'll have most of the bases covered. Tarmogoyf seems like a major problem for the Landstill. Ideas? Is the traditional build with red for Fire//Ice still the best? Is a more creature approach called for?

-Storm

[Stormanimagus]

Actually, now that I think of it, perhaps going old-school with the UR version is exactly what is needed right now, ESPECIALLY in MY metagame. It seems like Fire//Ice is a really good card right now as it deals with 2 highly played cards quite well: Dark Confidant & Goblin Welder. Welder negates all my good counter-magic so keeping it off the table seems like a high priority. Post SB I can even run more solutions for welder in 3 Threads or something like that. Here's my first stab at an update to Mattiuzzo's UR Landstill Idea:

U/R Landstill

Land (24):
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
5 Island
1 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Library Of Alexandria

Artifacts (7):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Null Rod
1 Crucible Of Worlds

Enchantments (4):
4 Standstill

Instants  (24):
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
3 Chain Of Vapor
4 Fire//Ice
1 Ancestral Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Rack And Ruin
3 Threads Of Disloyalty
3 Sower Of Temptation
3 Hurkyl’s Recall


The one problem here is 0 MD answers to Inkwell Leviathan, but I dunno if that SHOULD be a huge problem with all the counters you are running. I dunno, perhaps the Hurkyl's Recalls could be in there MD over Chain Of Vapor, but I'd have to test that a bit to be sure. Against Fish you are probably going:

-4 Null Rod , -2 Spell Pierce for

+3 Threads
+3 Sower

not sure what the SB plan would look like elsewhere. Thoughts?

-Storm

[waffles]

I think that everything that people are saying is correct and, in gold-fishing the deck as I posted it, it really is pretty weak to run the Lynx. I'd still like to find a home for the Lynx, but that might be in a more GW/x Cats deck that runs Fastbond and perhaps even some explorations. I'm gonna start messing around with the more combo-y approach and get back to you all soon. As for this thread, I'd still like to discuss Landstill and the possible future for the deck as I think it may be in a decent position to do well. The fact that it is a deck that can now run Spell Pierce is HUGE in shoring up turn 1 against a great many decks. It just needs a decent answer to Aggro and I think it'll have most of the bases covered. Tarmogoyf seems like a major problem for the Landstill. Ideas? Is the traditional build with red for Fire//Ice still the best? Is a more creature approach called for?

-Storm

Quicksand might work, that's if goyf is only a 2/2 at that time. or a pit trap would work, or the new white trap Pitfall Trap

[Stormanimagus]

I think that everything that people are saying is correct and, in gold-fishing the deck as I posted it, it really is pretty weak to run the Lynx. I'd still like to find a home for the Lynx, but that might be in a more GW/x Cats deck that runs Fastbond and perhaps even some explorations. I'm gonna start messing around with the more combo-y approach and get back to you all soon. As for this thread, I'd still like to discuss Landstill and the possible future for the deck as I think it may be in a decent position to do well. The fact that it is a deck that can now run Spell Pierce is HUGE in shoring up turn 1 against a great many decks. It just needs a decent answer to Aggro and I think it'll have most of the bases covered. Tarmogoyf seems like a major problem for the Landstill. Ideas? Is the traditional build with red for Fire//Ice still the best? Is a more creature approach called for?

-Storm

Quicksand might work, that's if goyf is only a 2/2 at that time. or a pit trap would work

Yeah, but Threads actually seems fine in tandem with Sower for Trygon, Goyf, and potential Tinker Targets (other than Inkwell, of course).

I also altered the SB to include at least 4 slots for Ichorid hate in the form of Ravenous Trap. Not sure what other hate I COULD run but the slots seem a bit on the tight side. Perhaps go down to like 2 Sower and 2 Threads so make room for 2 Tormod's? I'll have to play around with that SB a bit.

-Storm

[BruiZar]

Maybe this is a too simplistic way of thinking, but why not use the blackvise?

[Harlequin]

Ninja of Deep Hours could be nice as well, Something that can turn your 0/1 and 2/2 draw engine when you're out of lands with a Standstill in play.  It also has solid synergy with Factory too.

[SadDubs]

4 ravenous trap is nearly enough for ichorid, which eats landstill for breakfast. Either dedicate more slots to the ichorid game or dont at all. And unfortunaetly you need those slots for surviving the aggro and stax matchups, which are horrible for landstill, so I would just give up the ichorid game.

Also, I would take out spell piecre for spell snare, seeing as landstill already rapes the control deck without them and spell snare is hot vs pretty much any matchup.

[Mr. Scragglesworthington]

I think that everything that people are saying is correct and, in gold-fishing the deck as I posted it, it really is pretty weak to run the Lynx. I'd still like to find a home for the Lynx, but that might be in a more GW/x Cats deck that runs Fastbond and perhaps even some explorations. I'm gonna start messing around with the more combo-y approach and get back to you all soon. As for this thread, I'd still like to discuss Landstill and the possible future for the deck as I think it may be in a decent position to do well. The fact that it is a deck that can now run Spell Pierce is HUGE in shoring up turn 1 against a great many decks. It just needs a decent answer to Aggro and I think it'll have most of the bases covered. Tarmogoyf seems like a major problem for the Landstill. Ideas? Is the traditional build with red for Fire//Ice still the best? Is a more creature approach called for?

-Storm

If you insist on playing non-land creatures (I thought the whole point of Landstill was to abuse the manlands + standstill interaction?), the card made for this deck is Scute Mob.

As Mike Flores said in a recent article, this guy is a turn 4-5 drop disguised as a 1-drop.  Play him around the 5th turn when you've got 5 lands in play and the mana up to counter shenanigans, then next turn he's a 5/5.  Turn after, a 9/9.

Simply Smashing.