TPS Padawan looking for Advice

[Killane]

I'm bored with Oath. Really bored. Sure it's a powerful deck with good flexability and the cheepest wincon in Vintage, but playing the deck is, well, boring.

<tap Orchard.>
<tap land X>
Oath of Druids?
<play FoW>
untap. Oath. win.

Boring. (yes that's a vast oversimplification, and yes Oath takes skill to play, but that's how the deck feels).

I want to take up TPS. Having read all of Stephen's articles on it (here:) it sounded facinating, so I picked it up, goldfished it about 100 times, and then played against my buddy's mono-U Erayo deck. And crushed him. Several times. Loved it!

It's such a skill intensive deck. Even goldfishing it is fun!

I made 2 changes to the maindeck, covered in the following section:

Why Aren't You Running Crypt and Imperial Seal?

I'm running a 5th duress and a 2nd Tendrils. Wow, there's a bad explanation. Here's the actual reason:

I play in a 10 proxy environment, and being realitively new to Vintage and short on funds, I own no power. My 10 proxies are the Power 9 and the Grim tutor. I'd love to buy them, honestly I would, and I would not re-sell any power that came into my posession (with the exception of a PSA 9 or 10 Beta Lotus, which I could not justify to my ex-wife to keep when I could get $10K + for it), but for now budget prevents . Hopefully, I'll win some soon and cut the 5th Duress effect for a Crypt.) I'd buy the crypt outright, but I can;t find one. ANYWHERE. (I don't buy from EBay and SCG is ou of stock and has been for ages).

Looking for Advice/Comments/Criticism

I think Stephen's articles covered the advice I'm loking for in actually playing the deck, as far as advice withotu seeing my play actually can. (hopefully I can arrange some lessons from him as he advertises at soem point soon).

First question: in a world of Mindbreak Traps, is the 2nd Tendrils possibly worth keeping? If so, over what?

I have enjoyed the 2nd Tendrils quite a bit. In goldfishing, I found it often easy to get to 9 Storm on turn 2 but reach 10 much less often. However, in almost every instance I was able to get the second tendrils on turn 3, and leaving your opponent at 2 life is a fairly safe play, since FoW, bob, fetchlands, etc.. all become potentially lethal. Key-Vault on the turn following an 18 point Tendrils would Suck, but cutting off fetchs, FoW, Vampiric and Grim tutor makes that harder for them to do.

Is it maybe worth cutting the Seal, or something else, permanantly for the 2nd Tendrils? Especially given the aforementioned Mindbreak Trap?

2nd question- am I proxying the wrong Tutor? I like Grim over Imperial since it gets the desired card right into your hand, but could someone with more TPS experience chime in and offer an opinion?

The last thing I am looking for advice about is the sideboard.  here's the list and the current board, with a framework of the current evolution of sideboard plans and requests for advice where I currently know I need it. The fully fleshed out plans are up for debate as well- I'm a novice at this deck so I'm open to all comments/ constructive criticism.

Control Elements (12)
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild

Small Draw  (6)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister

Engine (5)

1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Desire
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Tutor (7)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gift's Ungiven
1 Tinker

Win (3)
1 Inkwell Leviathan (maybe this should be Sphinx? helps the Fish matchup I would think. thoughts?)
2 Tendrils of Agony

Fast Mana (15)
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring

Land (12)
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard  (15)

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Island
1 Swamp

4 Sadistic Sacrament - this is the biggest difference in my 75 from traditional builds. It seems extremely powerful and plays nicely with Rituals, but I'm concered that my mindset may be incorrect in using this. This is not a card that helps advance my own gameplan. It is purely a card that helps keep the opponent off their own gameplan. While cards like FoW and Duress/Thoughtseize are great because they can be used both "offensively" (to protect your combo) and "defensively" (to stop their wincon), Sacrament does a poor job of protecting your combo. However, it can simply be GG vs decks that aren;t expecting it, and with decks like Oath being popular right niow, it seems like a good choice.

My concern is that it feels like something you need as a 4-of (because you want to see it turn 1 or 2 in the match-ups that you want it in), which clutters up the board and leaves me with a poor board for Fish decks, which are also on the rise. Not sure how to resolve this concern.

Cards considered but not included:

Pithing Needle -my udnerstanding is that this is traditionally used in the Ichorid and Tezz matchups. With Sacrament being a much better plan vs Tezz, this would be relegated to Ichorid and second string "general hate". might consider it in place of Jailer if not expecting too much Ichorid, but Jailer is stronger in that match-up.

Massacre - not including as BUG fish is the most common right now and this spell doesn't really help that matchup. In the Noble Fish matchup it can be killer but it is shut off by Gaddock Teeg which they often board in vs Storm combo.

Extirpate - This was a tough one to cut as it's one of my favourite cards. The ability to strip a control deck of FoW, hit the Lotus in the mirror match in response to YawgWin, remove all the Bridges for Ichorid, etc... is awesome. Unfortunately, this card suffered from the Sacrament plan. It's substandard ahte for Ichorid that I used only due to utility in multiple match-ups, but that slot is taken up by Sacraments now and there is no room in the board for Extirpate as well. As such, it gets dropped from the Ichorid dedicated portion of the board to make room for better dedicated hate (Crypt).

Sideboard Plans

For the plans below, I'm looking for thoughts on what I'm bringing in, and what to cut for it. I'm also looking for some advice on the Fish match-ups for boarding. GWU fish seems like it would be a very hard match for this deck, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

Tezz

+ 4  Sadistic Sacrament
-  1 Rebuild
-  3?

Sacrament resolves = GG vs Tezz game 1, as outside fo Key/Vault and a Tinker target most will have to beat with Bobs in order to win, which has little chance of success here. not sure what to cut in this match-up apart from Rebuild seeming like a fine choice, as I haven;t seen many Tezz lists running Chalice and they obviosuly don't run Null Rod.

Oath

+ 4  Sadistic Sacrament
-  1 Rebuild (unless they are running Chalice, in which case??)
-  1 Inkwell Leviathan
- 2 ??

Sacrament resolves = GG vs Oath game 1 in almost all cases (very few Oath decks run 4+ wincons main deck).
Inkwell is too slow vs the current crop of Oath decks, which will be able to activate Oath if it's out and then win on either the following turn or the one after, meaning Inkwell gets to beat for either 7 or 14, not 20 and so not enough.

For Iona combo Oath, Leylines might also be a good idea in game 3, if you have been able to ascertain that they don't have a quasitransformational sideboard into Dragon Oath.
+ 4 Leyline fo the Void
-  4 ???

Mirror Match and other Storm decks

+ 4  Sadistic Sacrament
-  1 Rebuild
- 1 Chain of Vapor
-  2 ?

Once Again, Sacrament =  GG (we have 3 win cons and I've almost never seen a list that runs more, unless you count Bobs). What do you cut in the Mirror? Is there an objectively right choice? rebuild seems like the most obvious, given that we don;t run Chalices. Chain of Vapor is also a good chocie since we really don;t mind having our permanents bounced for the most part, but I'm stuck on the last two.

Ichorid
+ 4 Leyline of the Void
+1 Yixlid Jailer
+1 Tormod's Crypt
- 3 Thoughtseize
- 2 Duress
- 1 Misdirection

Discard being rather useless vs Ichorid as they have nothing that is dead from the yard except land, and misdirection suffering from a lack of good targets. Leyline is the most powerful hate in this matchup, Jailer being good but vulerable to Darkblast, and Crypt getting the nod over Extirpate due to comments offered by various Ichorid players plus having greater synergy as a 0 mana artifact with Storm.

Stax
+ 2 Hurkyll's Recall
+ 1 Island
+ 1 Swamp
- 1 Tolarian Academy
-3

Not sure what to cut apart from Academy. I imagine there are obvious choices here, but I have very little experience with Stax that would be relevant to playing a deck like this, so I'm finding myself ssomewhat lost.

BUG Fish

+ 1 Echoing Truth
- 1 ?

UGW Fish (Noble Fish)

+ 2 Hurkyl's Recall
+ 1 Echoing Truth
-  3 ?

I'm lost on the fish match-ups. I shouldn;t be, but I'm drawing a blank here. I have no experience in these matchups that woudl be relevant, as Oath is extremely strong vs Fish (except GWU, which I have never played against), and so they're not matches I've ever focused much on before.


Once again, any constructive commentary or criticism would be greatly appreciated!

[Gekoratel]

Just some general points.  I think that your mixture of Duress/Seize is wrong.  I'd go with 4 Duress and 1 Seize as the loss of life is very important in a deck with Necro/Bargain/GT/Vamp.  The versatility of taking a creature isn't that big of an issue for TPS since most creatures aren't stopping you from winning the game.  Do you play in a metagame with a lot of Meddling Mage or Cannonist?  Missing Imp. Seal isn't that big a deal as many members of the TPS playing community are split on its place in the deck.  I would really try and find a Mana Crypt though, not running that card is going to make it much harder to cast your 5cc + spells.

Against Stax you can board out.
1 MisD
1 Fact or Fiction
X Duress

I'd keep in the Academy because you'll have 6 basics post-board so having a land they can Waste isn't the end of the world.  As a general note I don't think the 2nd Tendrils is needed but if its been working out for you then go for it.

Best of luck with TPS.

[LennoxLewis86]

I only scanned through your topic but I'd like to give you some tips based on what I read:

Proxy the Seal instead of Grim Tutor. Seal, from my experience, is a more powerful card in the deck. Maybe you just want to go for Mana Crypt instead. It seems more important although not having Seal and Grim might even be worse.

Cut the 5th Duress, you don't need it. Play Hurkyl's Recall. HK can generate mana/storm as well as making your deck more resilient. You'll slightly increase the Stax match-up, have another way to bounce Null Rods and combined with Chain and Rebuild you'll have much less trouble with Chalices. I also think you shouldn't play 2 Tendrils, you're already a little low on mana sources cause you don't have the Crypt. Maybe try an extra Cabal Ritual?

The robot you choose depends on your metagame, it's as simple as that.

Play 4 Dures, there are only few, few creatures that really bother you and the lifeloss in a deck like this is a factor.

A agree with Gekoratel: Invest money in a Mana Crypt. It's an amazing card and well worth the money!

I hope this helps!

[Stormanimagus]

Pithing Needle -my udnerstanding is that this is traditionally used in the Ichorid and Tezz matchups. With Sacrament being a much better plan vs Tezz, this would be relegated to Ichorid and second string "general hate". might consider it in place of Jailer if not expecting too much Ichorid, but Jailer is stronger in that match-up.

As a long time pilot of TPS I can tell you that Needle is for Real from the SB but not for Tezz at all. You bring in Needle vs. Stax and Dredge and that's about it. Honestly, I agree with you on Sacrament, but I really think 3 is plenty from the SB as you run plenty of Tutors for it. Turn 1 Sacrament is nice, but often times turn 2 or even 3 is fast enough to find Win Conditions. Remember, against Oath they not only need to find Oath and resolve it, but they need to have a turn to Oath. I think you'll often find that that is your window of opportunity to Sacrament. Against Tezz they probably won't get Tinker online til turn 2 or 3 and Vault/Key is often a full turn slower than that. It becomes especially easy to run 3 Sacrament and find it early if you include the Imp. Seal eventually.

I'd recommend messing around with this SB:

3 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Pithing Needle
3 Dark Confidant
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Extirpate
1 Tormod's Crypt

It's been working wonders for me thus far. As a TPS player you really need to have a grasp on what's important for your deck to deal with (i.e- what are the weaknesses).

Weak Match-ups =

1. 9-Ball Stax (Mono-Red). You beat this deck with extra basics, Confidants, Needles and Hurkyl's
2. Some Fish/Beatz. You beat this deck with extra basics and having inevitability on your side.
3. Landstill = Inevitability.

Hope this helps,

-Storm

[Shean]

I agree with what everyone else is saying:  buy a Mana Crypt.

If you don't want to buy it from eBay, get it from www.cardshark.com

That extra missing mana matters a ton in a deck as tight for mana as TPS.

[Marske]

@Killane,
Ok, as I'll eventually chime in on this thread regardless I'll break your post down and offer some points of view. As you know both Steve and myself have written a lot about this deck, so here goes

Why Aren't You Running Crypt and Imperial Seal?

I'm running a 5th duress and a 2nd Tendrils. Wow, there's a bad explanation. Here's the actual reason:

I play in a 10 proxy environment, and being realitively new to Vintage and short on funds, I own no power. My 10 proxies are the Power 9 and the Grim tutor. I'd love to buy them, honestly I would, and I would not re-sell any power that came into my posession (with the exception of a PSA 9 or 10 Beta Lotus, which I could not justify to my ex-wife to keep when I could get $10K + for it), but for now budget prevents Sad. Hopefully, I'll win some soon and cut the 5th Duress effect for a Crypt.) I'd buy the crypt outright, but I can;t find one. ANYWHERE. (I don't buy from EBay and SCG is ou of stock and has been for ages).

I've had this discussion in the past and if you proxy anything, please proxy seal instead of Grim, it's really a lot better.  While some like the second tendrils it's really not needed and getting your hands on a Mana Crypt to replace it should be the first spot on your ToDo list.

First question: in a world of Mindbreak Traps, is the 2nd Tendrils possibly worth keeping? If so, over what?

Seeing as you're going for your "one big turn"  most of your resources will be spent anyway. Most likely you'll have used Will or Minds desire and have "exiled" most of the cards you'd need to create another "big" turn. Unless you plan on Tutor, Tendrils (trap) Tutor, Tendrils kinda play it's just much easier to Duress them before going Tendrils and get the trap out of the way or have FoW backup.

I have enjoyed the 2nd Tendrils quite a bit. In goldfishing, I found it often easy to get to 9 Storm on turn 2 but reach 10 much less often. However, in almost every instance I was able to get the second tendrils on turn 3, and leaving your opponent at 2 life is a fairly safe play, since FoW, bob, fetchlands, etc.. all become potentially lethal. Key-Vault on the turn following an 18 point Tendrils would Suck, but cutting off fetchs, FoW, Vampiric and Grim tutor makes that harder for them to do.

If you're not hitting 10  storm you're comboing to soon. It's just math (subtraction and adding) and if it doesn't line up it's not the time to go. TPS isn't a turn 2 deck so seeing your comments indicates the second tendrils is good because you're going for it too soon.

Is it maybe worth cutting the Seal, or something else, permanently for the 2nd Tendrils? Especially given the aforementioned Mindbreak Trap?

Don't cut Imperial Seal, Like I said above, cut the second tendrils you really don't need it.

2nd question- am I proxying the wrong Tutor? I like Grim over Imperial since it gets the desired card right into your hand, but could someone with more TPS experience chime in and offer an opinion?

Yes, proxy Imperial Seal instead

Regarding Sideboarding:
Thinking of a sideboard strategy is kinda pointless if you aren't sure what the board is going to be, also you reference Sadisctic Sacrament but you don't mention it in your board or maindeck (which is also confusing) I'll not get into your suggested + and - options because of this. Instead I'll look at the board you suggested and offer some criticism.

Sideboard  (15)
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Island
1 Swamp

Leyline of the Void
Although it's the best answer one could possibly play in TPS for Dredge it's also a card I'm the least fond of and I'll tell you why. First you've got to run 4, you can't run 3 or just one it needs to be four. Second it's dead against a lot of other matchups whilst other stuff albeit a bit less effective against Dredge, can be useful against other matchups as well making those "easier". I like stuff in my board to be useful against a wide range of decks, especially when it comes to Dredge. Like all of us know you must prepare for it because you'll most likely face it at one point (most likely top 8) during a tournament, but having a card in your board that's only useful for that one time isn't good enough for me.

Hurkyll's Recall
Solid, although I like to split between Rebuild and Hurkyl's that's basically just preference.

Yixlid Jailer
Basically the same story as Leyline although he can beat so that makes him slightly more favorable...

Tormod's Crypt
Solid against Dredge, good in the mirror and possible has other uses as well.

Echoing Truth
Pretty solid, I've run it in the past and it's a great solution.

Island, Swamp

DUH ! Nuff said.

Ok on to the others you mentioned:

Pithing Needle -my udnerstanding is that this is traditionally used in the Ichorid and Tezz matchups. With Sacrament being a much better plan vs Tezz, this would be relegated to Ichorid and second string "general hate". might consider it in place of Jailer if not expecting too much Ichorid, but Jailer is stronger in that match-up.

It's good against Ichorid, Stax (has applications) although I've been unimpressed and impressed with this card it's a bit of a weird one for me. At times I absolutely love what it can do and at times I curse it. That being said I would run at least 1.

Massacre - not including as BUG fish is the most common right now and this spell doesn't really help that matchup. In the Noble Fish matchup it can be killer but it is shut off by Gaddock Teeg which they often board in vs Storm combo.

Agreed, playing something like E.Truth, Infest, or spot removal like Slaughter pact, Smother, Shriekmaw is arguably better at removing pests like G.Teeg.

Extirpate - This was a tough one to cut as it's one of my favourite cards. The ability to strip a control deck of FoW, hit the Lotus in the mirror match in response to YawgWin, remove all the Bridges for Ichorid, etc... is awesome. Unfortunately, this card suffered from the Sacrament plan. It's substandard ahte for Ichorid that I used only due to utility in multiple match-ups, but that slot is taken up by Sacraments now and there is no room in the board for Extirpate as well. As such, it gets dropped from the Ichorid dedicated portion of the board to make room for better dedicated hate (Crypt).

It's solid against dredge, Solid against drains (extirpate the drain / FoW and win without resistance seems solid) and it's good in the mirror. I couldn't imagine a sideboard without this card.

On Sadistic Sacrament:
I'd at least run 1-3 of these in my board because it takes out Oath, Tezz and the Mirror. TPS looks like the best deck to support this although I haven't tested it, it looks pretty solid in theory.

I think you must first come to the realization about what it is you need to "fix" from the board and use that knowledge to create a sideboard before you can get into boarding plans. Some of your concerns (the second tendrils etc) indicate you still have much to learn about piloting this deck (which isn't weird or something to be ashamed off) I think it's great you're taking this deck up and I wish you the best off luck learning how to pilot this great deck. I'll probably chime in on occasion in this thread but if there is anything you'd want some specific help with just let me know (pm).

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Your list looks pretty standard so I will focus my comments on the inclusion of the 2nd Tendrils.  There are basically 2 reasons to include this:

1) So you can go off with Memory Jar even when Tendrils is in your hand--this is more important now that Brainstorm is restricted, because if you draw Tendrils it is hard to get it back into your deck.  Drawing Tendrils basically cuts off Jar as a line of play, which is really annoying.

2) You are afraid of your 1 Tendrils getting Exiled.  Barring unusual plays like Extract or Duress+Extirpate, etc, this usually only comes up when you resolve Necro and they Duress/Thoughtseize you after.  This is not as much of a problem with TPS as with other combo decks, because you fun FOW and can often use Necro to set up a win with Fow protection even if you draw Tendrils off your Necro.  This is also less of a problem in TPS because the robot leaves you a win condition even if your Tendrils is exiled.  So, clearly less of a problem than 1).

So, the question is whether the advantages of the 2nd Tendrils outweigh its drawbacks.  This is something each person judges on their own, so as Markse noted it is basically a matter of personal preference.  IMO, having more options in these 2 situation is outweighed by Tendrils often being a dead draw.  The only thing I hate drawing in my opener more than Tendrils is the Tinker Robot--and if you use Inkwell/Sphinx at least you can pitch it Fow, so it is not entirely dead.  Tendrils is basically useless until you have the necessary bombs/resources to go off, at which point you should be able to find Tendrils easily anyway.  So, although it aids in some situations, I see the 2nd Tendrils as somewhat of a crutch when it comes to playing the deck, unless your metagame is filled with Extract or something.

Regarding Imperial Seal: I actually hate this card with a passion.  I know many people like Markse and Smmenen swear by it, but whenever I play with it I end up hating it, because it usually forces you to commit to a line of play 1 turn in advance, exposing you to possible plays that your opponent can make.  I also hate drawing opening hands with 2 topdeck tutors--this happened to me quite a bit when I was running all 3, and it really hurts your tempo and exposes you to counters.  If you want another business spell, it is easy to splash for Wheel of Fortune just by adding 1 Volcanic/Badlands.

[Marske]

1) So you can go off with Memory Jar even when Tendrils is in your hand--this is more important now that Brainstorm is restricted, because if you draw Tendrils it is hard to get it back into your deck.  Drawing Tendrils basically cuts off Jar as a line of play, which is really annoying.

This is simply not true, having Tendrils stuck in your "jar" hand isn't a problem, as long as you don't Jar into Will you'll easily win the next turn on the back of graveyard fueled by Yawg Win. On another note, this is also the main reason I prefer DSC over anything else, I've won countless games with Tendrils being in my Jar hand and getting  DSC into play and searching for a Time Walk to seal the deal.

Regarding Imperial Seal: I actually hate this card with a passion.  I know many people like Markse and Smmemen swear by it, but whenever I play with it I end up hating it, because it usually forces you to commit to a line of play 1 turn in advance, exposing you to possible plays that your opponent can make.  I also hate drawing opening hands with 2 topdeck tutors--this happened to me quite a bit when I was running all 3, and it really hurts your tempo and exposes you to counters.

I've ran TPS with 2 Grims and no Seal, with 2 Grims and 1 Seal and with 1 Grim and 1 Seal and the last configuration was very good for me. That being said I've been a very strong supporter of the 2 Grims no Seal setup for a very long time so I can easily see where you're coming from. Like I said in the earlier TPS threads, it's a matter of preference and play style and maybe it matters for around 0.01% either way. It's not worth getting into a discussion over it.

If you want another business spell, it is easy to splash for Wheel of Fortune just by adding 1 Volcanic/Badlands.

I've always hated splashing a third color because it makes you run another dual in the board or cut down on basics maindeck which isn't optimal. If you want another business spell there are lots of other options in U/B (More Grims / Seal, Frantic Search, Windfall etc)

[Anusien]

Smmenen and I discussed the second Tendrils in GrimLong, and I'm greatly in favor of it for all the reasons you just mentioned.  This is a different deck, so you might be able to get away with just the 1 Tendrils.  You have a little bit of time to either break the Jar as setup or just find the Brainstorm.

[Shean]

I've always been a fan of a 2nd tendrils in any storm-based deck for all of the reasons listed.  However, there are pros and cons to everything.

Running a 2nd tendrils is an ongoing debate that has been discussed forever (well, maybe not forever, but as long as I have been playing T1).  There's really no correct answer, as the pros and cons have been discussed time and time again and it evens out.  When I was new to TPS, I always had a second tendrils, just in case I messed something up and needed it.

This deck has so many intricacies that you are bound to make mistakes with it.

For me, a big part of learning TPS were two things:

1)  Mulliganing.

No, this isn't just a "cop out" response.  With every deck, I usually try to spend an hour or two doing this once I have my deck ready to go to a tournament:  Shuffle up.  Draw seven cards.  Decide whether I would mulligan it or not.  If I decide to keep, I put it in the "keep" pile, if not, I put it in the "mull" section.  I continue this all the way down through the deck (since you aren't playing these hands, I don't think you need to reshuffle after each hand drawn).

Keep in mind that some hands are playable when you won the roll, some hands are playable on the draw.  Obviously this gets complicated in an actual tournament if you know in advance what your opponent is playing.

Do this through the deck a good number of times and record what % you mulliganed.  This is in no way a concrete number.  But for me, I HATE TO MULLIGAN.  I tend to try to make a sub-par hand work, in fear of getting a worse hand with less cards.  After doing this, I can say to myself, while sitting at the tournament:  "Hrmmm.  Should I keep this??  I could probably make it work...  Well, in testing my mulligan % was  ."  It just tends to make me feel better about going down a card.



2)  The intricacies that are unique to the deck that you are playing.

I don't really know any other way to put it.  I don't even know if he still plays, but JD was, in my opinion, one of the top afficionados on combo.  He played combo for some crazy amount of time straight.  Anyway, he taught me how to play TPS, Belcher, and other combo decks.  None of my local friends (at the time, I don't even know anyone who plays around here anymore) could even touch the card Tendrils of Agony, much less try to play 9 spells before it.

I was, before that, an Oath and CS player (I loved my, as JD would call them, "Banana drains").  Certain plays in TPS are un-intuitive.  As a small example, its turn 1 on the play and you have 1 land and ancestral.  When playing drains, you almost always wait until your opponent's upkeep or EOT (I prefer upkeep, so they don't get to draw a counter or play a land) to cast it, so you don't have to discard.  When playing TPS, it makes more sense to cast it during your T1 main phase.  Why?  Because you might hit a mox, your opponent might play chalice for 1, etc.

While there are obviously outside factors affecting what the correct play would be, my point is that the correct line of play using the same cards found in other decks, can be completely different because of the other cards in your deck and what your deck is trying to do.

[Killane]

Wow, lots of replies so far. thanks to all!

The post is happened in the last 10 min of lunch at work, so forgive me if it's not exhaustive

So far, I've firmly decided to dedicate some energy to tracking down a crypt. A number of the sellers listed so far are out of stock, but I did find a few on card shark. Now just to wait till next pay.

Once I get that crypt the 5th Duess effect will exit for it. I do see a high number of Cannonist/Mindcensor/Meddling Mage/Gaddock Teeg in my meta from time to time (people like to switch up decks alot around here, so it fluctuates), so I don't want to go 4 Duress. 4 Seize is too much life. My concern is with only 1 Seize how often am I really goign to have it when I need it? 2 and 2 is aesthectically displeasing to me and just feels Wrong - i think the correct mix is 3 and one, but can the deck really handle 3 Thoughtseizes and the resulting life loss?

Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, and the 2nd Tendrils are an interrelated question in my mind. Some have said Seal, some have said Grim, and people so far seem split on the 2nd Tendrils. I think I'm going to keep the 2nd Tendrils for now- the number of times I have Tendrils in hand with Jar on the table ready to go has not been inconsequential, and in my meta people always have TONS of Yard hate (the vast majority of plays run 4 x Leyline in the board plus 2-3 more yard answers, and Jailer sees very little play) so I don't want to count on a YawgWin next turn if this happens. Having the 2nd tendrils has led to a lethal Jar almost every time.

given my proxy restrictions, I'm going to continue to experiement with Seal and Grim in the 10th slot. I tried Seal a few times last night (again Goldfishes only ) and it's making a but more sense to me. I still am not a fan of topdeck tutors compared to tutors to the hand, but the 2 mana (and to a certain extent the 3 life with Necro active) does make a huge difference. On the other hand, Grim lends itself more easilly to explosive YawgWins since you can replay it from the yard to get the Tendrils without requiring a draw spell in addition to the tutor.

Perhaps the deciding factor should be the amount of times I anticipate being forced to play around yard hate. Only more testing will answer the question.

Let's keep up the discussion. Thanks to all so far!

[Gekoratel]

Going into detail about some of the intricacies that fizix mentioned here are a couple plays to be aware of.

-Misdirection has its obvious uses of stealing Recalls and protecting threats but can also do more subtle things such as if your opponent goes to Stifle a Tendrils of Agony you can crack a fetchland and redirect the Stifle to the Fetch activation.

-Cracking Memory Jar at your opponents EOT or on upkeep, both of these plays allow you to see 7 cards before drawing for the turn and will allow you to have 8 cards (draw for turn) when you are trying to combo out.  Also this play is good with Vampiric/Mystical Tutor as you can see what your missing Fast Mana or Threats and tutor for what's needed.

-Necropotence draws cards at endstep so can still cast instants before having to discard down to 7, this is rarely relevant but a tight play.

-If you put Yawgmoth's Will on the stack and your opponent cracks Tormod's Crypt you'll get another chance to cast instants/abilities before it resolves so you could cast Brainstorm + Ritual + crack a fetch and still get some value out of the card.

I'm sure there's some other subtle plays with the deck I can't think of right now but hopefully you find these useful.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

1) So you can go off with Memory Jar even when Tendrils is in your hand--this is more important now that Brainstorm is restricted, because if you draw Tendrils it is hard to get it back into your deck.  Drawing Tendrils basically cuts off Jar as a line of play, which is really annoying.

This is simply not true, having Tendrils stuck in your "jar" hand isn't a problem, as long as you don't Jar into Will you'll easily win the next turn on the back of graveyard fueled by Yawg Win. On another note, this is also the main reason I prefer DSC over anything else, I've won countless games with Tendrils being in my Jar hand and getting  DSC into play and searching for a Time Walk to seal the deal.

I was referring to going off the same turn.  Obviously you can still use Jar to set up other plays like Will for next turn or Tinker/Walk, but having Tendrils face down usually makes it so you can't kill them the turn you use Jar.  I usually prefer to set things up for the "one big turn" and kill them that turn--I hate setting up and then passing the turn, because even with Fow there is always a risk that your opponent can disrupt you or kill you somehow.  So if you draw Tendrils along with Jar or Tinker->Jar, it clearly puts you at a disadvantage as opposed to if you had another Tendrils in your deck.  That said, I agree with you that the 2nd Tendrils is suboptimal simply because the slight advantage you get in specific situations is not worth running another card that is dead when you draw it most of the time.  I also prefer DSC because it is a full turn faster.

I've always hated splashing a third color because it makes you run another dual in the board or cut down on basics maindeck which isn't optimal. If you want another business spell there are lots of other options in U/B (More Grims / Seal, Frantic Search, Windfall etc)

I'm not convinced that you need 4 basics maindeck.  Consider the following land base:
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

11 lands give you access to blue (1 more than the posted mana base), 9 lands give you access to black (same number of black sources), and 7 give you access to red (easily enough to support Wheel).  

You run only 2 basics but 6 fetchlands, which is one less "effective" basic than 4+5.  Of course, there are some games when you want multiple basics, but the only deck you really need more than 2 basics against is Stax, which you address by putting additonal basics in the sideboard.  The 2/2 island/swamp configuration sometimes screws you when you draw only 1 basic or 2 of one basic and don't have access to your other colour.  Granted, this doesn't happen that often, but it has happened to me more often than I would like, and I hate having to mulligan hands because the single land is a basic of the wrong colour.  With 12 lands you will frequently draw 1 land hands, so it helps to minimize this risk.  

Furthermore, the ability to get more than 2 basics into play will not matter very frequently, not just because of the decks you face, but because of the fact that you simply will not draw more than 2-3 "effective" basic lands.  With the 5+4 configuration you have to see on average 20 cards to get 3 basics into play, even ignoring the deck-thinning effect of the fetches.

Even counting the full 12 lands you often will not play more than 2-3 lands per game.  So, even without splashing red I would not want to run the full 4 basics maindeck, since I can just add additional fetches instead.  I therefore consider the cost of adding red to be minimal, and Wheel is definitely worth it, because it is the best additional business spell.  

Here is why I think Wheel is better than the other options you mention (other than Imperial Seal, which I have already talked about):
Grim Tutor is a fine card (I run 1), but it is usually only good when you have significant mana resources 1BB+whatever card you get means you are probably burning a Ritual in order to cast it, so it is not very effective at helping you build up resources to achieve 'critical mass.'  It's also weak to draw multiples unless you have mana for Grim->Lotus, Grim-->Will.

Windfall in my experience has been absolutely horrible, because it is usually only good turn 1 on the play or after another draw 7.  Windfalling for 4-5 cards is pretty bad, and is what often ends up happening when you cast it.  The only advantage of Windfall is that you can pitch it to Fow.  I would probably run Impulse over Windfall.

Frantic Search is only good with Academy.  Even if you have three lands it is only a Careful Study for 0 if it resolves, and much worse if it gets countered.  Often it just sits in hand because it is uncastable or I don't want to cast it.  Once again, pitching to Fow is the only advantage and I would probably run Impulse or even Sleight of hand before I would run this (these at least give you card selection without sacrificing cards); it's simply too narrow--if you need to filter cards for card disadvantage often even Careful Study would be better.

Wheel gives you another bomb that requires minimal investment of resources and helps you build towards 'critical mass.'  When cast, it is usually better than Twister because it lets you keep your graveyard loaded for Will.  (Twister's advantages obviously are being pitchable and much better against Dredge).  So, to reiterate, I think the incrased power of Wheel is worth the minimal sacrifices you make to the mana base to support it.

As for advice on mulliganing.  My method is simple: look at the hand, think about the various lines of play (obviously helps if you know your opponent's deck), and ask whether you see yourself winning the game with the hand.  If you don't think you can win with it, you should throw it back.  The only exception to this is when you get down to lower numbers of cards in your hand (5 or less), in which case even if the hand seems unlikely to win it is probably still better than your possible mulligan hand.

Intricacies of the deck: Test A LOT, against all match-ups, 2/3 matches with sideboard.  If possible, in person, with a good player you know, and can discuss games regarding possible lines of play, etc, and mistakes.  This sounds like a cop-out, but I think the best and only way to really get a feel for the intricacies of any deck is through experience in playing it.  There is only so much you can learn through theory.

[Doomsday]

EDIT: My bad, doesn't belong here.

[Marske]

@GTW,
So we agree on the 1 Tendrils then btw having just 1 Tendrils in the deck is ok if you still have your "training wheels" on if you know what I mean.

I'm not convinced that you need 4 basics maindeck.  Consider the following land base:
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

This mana base is truly open for Wasteland / Stifle. Running something like this overhere in Europe gets you killed in such a hurry it isn't even funny anymore. Now I'm not 100% sure how our metas differ but I'm almost 95% sure I'd be running 4 basics if I were to play TPS in the USA today. I've gone over this argument numerous times and it has been mentioned by Steve in his articles as well and I see no need in repeating myself (or Steve) yet again.

Regarding the other bombs:
You're right non of them are better then Wheel, but I think the % in which Wheel is better then running anything out of that list is just to small compared to the % in which you'll notice the lack of basics in the deck to support the red splash. Preferably my maindeck would just have Seal instead.

Intricacies of the deck: Test A LOT, against all match-ups, 2/3 matches with sideboard.  If possible, in person, with a good player you know, and can discuss games regarding possible lines of play, etc, and mistakes.  This sounds like a cop-out, but I think the best and only way to really get a feel for the intricacies of any deck is through experience in playing it.  There is only so much you can learn through theory.

This is so true, I've learned some things discussing the deck but I've learned a lot during my one and a half year stint in playing TPS exclusively. Those countless hours of testing and tournament play are the only way to truly master this deck.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

This mana base is truly open for Wasteland / Stifle. Running something like this overhere in Europe gets you killed in such a hurry it isn't even funny anymore. Now I'm not 100% sure how our metas differ but I'm almost 95% sure I'd be running 4 basics if I were to play TPS in the USA today.

3 Duals instead of 2 Duals, and 6 Fetches instead of 5 Fetches, does make you more vulnerable to Stifle and Wasteland.  However, I think adding only 1 additional land of each type does not make you THAT much more vulnerable.  You will have to play around both of them in either case.

Of the two, Stifle is probably the greater concern, since with my mana base you rely more on fetching your basics than on drawing them.  It is certainly a metagame call.  Here in Ontario (which I believe Killane said he was from), I have not been seeing very many Stifles recently.  Generally the only decks that run it are Fish and Landstill, and many of these builds have been switching over to Spell Pierce for U-costed disruption.

[personalbackfire]

The last tournament I played at I ran TPS w/ splash of red and the mana base was fine. Wheel of fortune is truly an amazing card and won me countless games. I missed top 8 by a game because I was being greedy and misplayed, these things happen.

This is the mana base I ran
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Tolarian

You can see I run 13 lands, this is because I believe the Imperial Seal and 13th Land slot to be interchangeable and for me having 13 lands have always been better. If you were only running 12 lands you could just cut a Sea.

I don't think that cutting a Swamp for a Badlands weakens the mana base that much, as the only matchup it really matters is in the Stax matchup. Lucky for me Stax has been on a down low where I play and I was comfortable splashing. Also, as you have in your sideboard, I run 2 basics in the side.  If shops in general are huge in your metagame then sticking to straight UB is better, and I would encourage you to run the 13th land in that metagame.

Regarding other UB "bombs":
Windfall in my experience has been lackluster.
Thirst for Knowlege was better but not great.

[Marske]

You can see I run 13 lands, this is because I believe the Imperial Seal and 13th Land slot to be interchangeable and for me having 13 lands have always been better. If you were only running 12 lands you could just cut a Sea.

They actually aren't, Imperial Seal serves a entirely different purpose then the 13th land slot.  With the current widely accepted manabase (12 lands) being:

4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Tolarian

I think it's pretty hard to add a Red splash and still have a consistent manabase. That being said, wheel is a great card but it's not nearly great enough to warrant the red splash on it's own. Some sideboard cards can be nice but nothing in red stands out to me screaming: Splash Red.

I don't think that cutting a Swamp for a Badlands weakens the mana base that much, as the only matchup it really matters is in the Stax matchup. Lucky for me Stax has been on a down low where I play and I was comfortable splashing.

If you meta has hardly or now Stax then by all means run Red (or green) but for most of us Stax has been on the rise, not to mention that during big time events (like BOM, Eur0vino etc) you're bound to walk into Stax at least once.

[LennoxLewis86]

I also believe splashing red is fine. Yes, the manabase has to suffer by being more open to Wastelands. Still, I believe that if the pilot is competent enough, he will make good use of fetches and make sure basics are on the table most of the time. When you want to Wheel you fetch out the Badlands (or not.. Petal, Lotus and Ruby also provide red) but you'll be going off when Wheeling so Wastelands are less of a factor.

In the huge TPS topic (Let's talk about TPS shall we? by Marske) it was discussed that Fact or Fiction wasn't optimal but that it was difficult finding a fitting replacement, Wheel does this perfectly. I also remember that Infest (and other ways to get rid of annoying creatures) have been discussed extensively. Pyroclasm is hands down the most effective way to sweep the board against Fish and Beats decks.

Sideboard options weigh out the fact that you make yourself more vulnerable to Stax and Fish decks.

I would play Marske's suggested configuration but I would cut Fact or Fiction for Wheel of Fortune. Then I would cut one Swamp for Badlands.

My SB would be something like this:

Island
Swamp
2 Hurkyl's Recall (assuming you're playing a Rebuild main, but it's a matter of preference)
Pyroclasm
Empty the Warrens
Tormod's Crypt
Pithing Needle
3 x Sadistic Sacrament
4 x Leyline of the Void

It seems to me this board addresses pretty much all match-ups:

Leylines, Needle and Crypt vs. Dredge (Leylines warrant the 6 slots plus Crypt and Needle are one of the more versatile dredge hate cards).
Sacrament vs. Tezz, Oath, DT and mirror.
Basics and Bounce vs. Stax (basics are useful vs. Fish decks as well. Especially Fish with Stifles).
Pyroclasm vs. Fish and Beats decks.
ETW vs. Fish, Beats and Stax decks.

It can be argued that Sacrament addresses match-ups that are good to begin with so other cards can be used in the board. You can squeeze in a Helm if you feel like it, it makes the Leylines somewhat more useful in the board. Also, if you board in Helm and ETW you will have 4 win cards, this will neutralize opposing Sacraments. This COULD be of the essence when playing against other Ritual decks (besides stopping the Yawgmoth's Will plan with Leylines) but I have no idea if Sacrament is seeing enough play to try this.

[Marske]

I also believe splashing red is fine. Yes, the manabase has to suffer by being more open to Wastelands. Still, I believe that if the pilot is competent enough, he will make good use of fetches and make sure basics are on the table most of the time. When you want to Wheel you fetch out the Badlands (or not.. Petal, Lotus and Ruby also provide red) but you'll be going off when Wheeling so Wastelands are less of a factor.

Seeing as I highly favor the U/B build and currently enjoy running FoF again, lets just agree on the fact that splashing Red for Wheel etc is something that's a pilot's own preference. Some things with TPS are pretty much set in stone while others are open for the pilots own interpretation. That being said, IF I were going to run the red splash, my deck would look something like the list posted below. I would however run at least 1-2 sacraments (possible over 1 Negator and 1 crypt) to deal with Oath a bit better.

The Perfect Storm as suggested by Martijn van der Vaart
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=23030

creature [1]
1 Darksteel Colossus

instant [16]
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [18]
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
2 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will

enchantment [2]
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

artifact [11]
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

land [12]
1 Badlands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
3 Dark Confidant
1 Phyrexian Negator
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Extirpate
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Swamp

Also take into consideration my current TPS list which Martin "Art ov War" Nuijten used to grab a top 4 finish at the Dutch Vintage championship last weekend, these builds highly differ and offer a great view imo of 2 different approaches indicating how TPS is still highly tweakable depending on the meta and pilot preference

The Perfect Storm as suggested by Marius van Zundert Piloted by Martin Nuijten.

creature [1]
1 Darksteel Colossus

instant [19]
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [15]
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
2 Grim Tutor*
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

enchantment [2]
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

artifact [11]
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotul Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

land [12]
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Dark Confidant
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Smother
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Yixlid Jailer

*Seeing as it was sanctioned and we only had one Imperial seal which was in use we opted to go for the 2 Grim setup which worked out as well. This demonstrated the fact that either setup works.

[LennoxLewis86]

I'm not really sure if the 5 Duress effects are better than playing Misdirection. Pitch-counters seem stronger when playing an extra draw 7 in the deck.

The deck only has 15 blue cards to support Force of Will. I'd say lose the extra Seize and the 2nd Grim Tutor. Replace them with Gifts Ungiven (!) and Misdirection.
18 blue cards is considered to be the minimum so perhaps Colossus has to go for Inkwell Leviathan as well.

I also think only playing two basics is pushing your luck. Three is easily possible. If you only play two basics and board in two basics from your board you only have four basics in your deck after boarding. That's not enough..

The sideboard looks interesting but I don't understand why Massacre is played over Pyroclasm. Confidant seems like a strong sideboard option.

Regarding the other list: obviously solid, including sideboard. Did the Smothers work out well for him from the board? Was he lucky enough to not face dredge or do you think that 5 slots is enough? Did the one Sacrament work out well? I'd say it's not a card you want to tutor for, I'd rather find it in my opening hand and surprise my opponent with it. That's why I suggested playing 3.

[Marske]

I'm not really sure if the 5 Duress effects are better than playing Misdirection. Pitch-counters seem stronger when playing an extra draw 7 in the deck.

The deck only has 15 blue cards to support Force of Will. I'd say lose the extra Seize and the 2nd Grim Tutor. Replace them with Gifts Ungiven (!) and Misdirection.
18 blue cards is considered to be the minimum so perhaps Colossus has to go for Inkwell Leviathan as well.

I agree, I did say "similar" or "something like" this. As I'm very biased regarding running U/B my red list would look a bit different but I have to give a reference. During the event and during testing I've come to realize having DSC in the deck is just straight up better then having Inkwell because the one extra turn DOES matter.

The sideboard looks interesting but I don't understand why Massacre is played over Pyroclasm. Confidant seems like a strong sideboard option.

Probably because during that time Massacre was mostly "free" and having to pay 0 mana or 1R during the turn you want to "combo" can make a huge difference.

Regarding the other list: obviously solid, including sideboard. Did the Smothers work out well for him from the board?

The Smothers were golden all day in taking out all kinds of pesky critters.

Was he lucky enough to not face dredge or do you think that 5 slots is enough?

He faced dredge and won the match 2-1, so 5 seems definitely enough, you only really want to "Time Walk" them and take out disruption that doesn't work for stuff that lets you interact with them long enough to slow them down to your speed. I think more is just overboarding and taking out stuff that's arguably better, the dredge matchup does require some practice (pre and post SB) and it's something we've focussed on a lot.

Did the one Sacrament work out well? I'd say it's not a card you want to tutor for, I'd rather find it in my opening hand and surprise my opponent with it. That's why I suggested playing 3.

It actually IS a card you want to tutor for because it's almost a auto-win if you resolve it against Tezz and especially Oath. The correct number is still up for grabs but the one sacrament did give him some games vs Oath in Swiss and top 8 so it's definitely very solid.  Bringing in 3 makes you take out stuff that's arguably better then what you're bringing in so I think 1 is the correct number.

[LennoxLewis86]

It actually IS a card you want to tutor for because it's almost a auto-win if you resolve it against Tezz and especially Oath. The correct number is still up for grabs but the one sacrament did give him the some games vs Oath in Swiss and top 8 so it's definitely very solid.  Bringing in 3 makes you take out stuff that's arguably better then what you're bringing in so I think 1 is the correct number.

Yeah, I have to agree. It IS a card you can tutor for. Although I was thinking that a deck like TPS should use its resources to win the game rather than prevent your opponent from winning the game, Sacrament is in a league of it's own when it comes to preventing your opponent from winning.

He faced dredge and won the match 2-1, so 5 seems definitely enough, you only really want to "Time Walk" them and take out disruption that doesn't work for stuff that lets you interact with them long enough to slow them down to your speed. I think more is just overboarding and taking out stuff that's arguably better, the dredge matchup does require some practice (pre and post SB) and it's something we've focused on a lot.

Interesting, I always found it very, very annoying having to reserve many slots to Dredge but seeing that 5 slots (and not even having to use Leyline) proved to be enough for Martin last tournament really excites me.

Considering your last response and the two suggested decks with sideboards, I would like to suggest the following list:

The Perfect Wheelie as suggested by Onno Versluijs

creatures [1]
1 Inkwell Leviathan (I definitely prefer DSC myself but 18 blue cards to support FoW is more important than being a turn faster with your robot imo)

instant [19]
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Force of Will
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Rebuild
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [15]
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

enchantment [2]
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

artifact [11]
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

land [12]
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Badlands
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Dark Confidant
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pyroclasm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Empty the Warrens

Yes, I've kind of stolen most of your ideas but I don't care, that's how we roll =P
I should have thought of Confidant myself.. Oh well, it's in there now.

Thoughts?

[Marske]

Yeah, I have to agree. It IS a card you can tutor for. Although I was thinking that a deck like TPS should use its resources to win the game rather than prevent your opponent from winning the game, Sacrament is in a league of it's own when it comes to preventing your opponent from winning.

Resolving it against Oath means in most cases they can't ever win meaning you win the game. Unless your opponent is a douche and makes you play it out you've just won the game, if he lets you play it out it should be rather easy as you can just build up to a insane hand without any worries of them ever doing anything like winning before you do.

Interesting, I always found it very, very annoying having to reserve many slots to Dredge but seeing that 5 slots (and not even having to use Leyline) proved to be enough for Martin last tournament really excites me.

I can't stress enough that playing against Ichorid just takes a lot of practice and knowing "What's Important" during that game. I think Martin and me playtested the TPS vs Dredge matchup Ad Infinitum (well at least an arbitrarily large amount of times) during the past several years as he's one of my regular testing partners. We've switched decks up making us both very familiar with either side of the table and we both have made high finishes or at least near top 8's with both decks.

I definitely prefer DSC myself but 18 blue cards to support FoW is more important than being a turn faster with your robot imo

17 Blue cards is the lowest number to reliably support Force of Will. Going down to this and gaining the advantage of having a 1 turn faster robot is enough for me. The only matchup against which I'd prefer having Inkwell is against Stax as it's the only matchup the card ever shined for me. That being said with game 2-3 having Confidant and more bounce should make that matchup good enough. Although again this can be a matter of preference.

Yes, I've kind of stolen most of your ideas but I don't care, that's how we roll =P

Seeing as you're one of my "padawan" and I can safely claim you learned most of this decks interactions from me I wouldn't expect anything less of you

I should have thought of Confidant myself.. Oh well, it's in there now.

DUH !!

[personalbackfire]

What are you bringing Bob in against? Just Stacks?

[Marske]

@personalbackfire,
I've also brought Bob in against Tezz (because they bring in Arcane Lab). As Menendian showed during one of his testing sessions a while back Itou and Eastman Tezz got it's ass handed to itself when he brought in Phyrexian Negator. As I wanted something that works against Stax as well Confidant seemed like the most likely choice.

[LennoxLewis86]

So against Stax something in the lines of:

-1 Misdirection
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-2 Cabal Ritual
-4 Duress/-4 FoW (depending on who begins the game..?)

+2 Basics
+2 Bounce
+3 Confidant
+1 ETW

I'm not really sure how to board with the U/B shell. Something similar but probably boarding in Needles as well.

I believe UBr wants to keep in the off-color Moxen for a possible quick ETW so no Needles then. This could be wrong though, I'd have to test this some more first.

[Marske]

So against Stax something in the lines of:

-1 Misdirection
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-2 Cabal Ritual
-4 Duress/-4 FoW (depending on who begins the game..?)

+2 Basics
+2 Bounce
+3 Confidant
+1 ETW

I'm not really sure how to board with the U/B shell. Something similar but probably boarding in Needles as well.

I'd look at the overall mana curve of the deck after boarding and determine how big the chance is regarding killing yourself with Confidant compared to the amount of cards you'd realistically need to draw to find bounce / win and go from there (which is just plain basic math) I think I'd definitely leave in both Cabal rituals and take out Desire, Gifts, Possibly Jar to lower the curve. Then again I only have experience with the UB build.

[LennoxLewis86]

Personally I'd try and keep in as many bombs as possible. Gifts is slower than Jar and Desire so I'd try keeping them in the deck.

Maybe when I board out FoW I'm keeping more bombs and when FoW stays in I'll board out more bombs, you're right that it's important to lower the curve.

I just don't like playing with Cabal Rituals against Stax, after the first sphere hits the table it's completely useless. Stax is good at preventing decks from achieving threshold. Off color Moxen are less powerful when Spheres are being played but they still help to build up mana to race Spheres and to get more permanents into play.

[personalbackfire]

Personally I'd try and keep in as many bombs as possible. Gifts is slower than Jar and Desire so I'd try keeping them in the deck.

Maybe when I board out FoW I'm keeping more bombs and when FoW stays in I'll board out more bombs, you're right that it's important to lower the curve.

I just don't like playing with Cabal Rituals against Stax, after the first sphere hits the table it's completely useless. Stax is good at preventing decks from achieving threshold. Off color Moxen are less powerful when Spheres are being played but they still help to build up mana to race Spheres and to get more permanents into play.

When your boarding against Stax I have always taken out Grim, Minds Desire, Misdirection, then around 2 duress, depending on draw or play.

Boarding out FOW seems terrible. FOW, lands, and bounce are your best friends in that match up. I don't actually agree that Dark Confidant is at all needed in any of those match ups. I have always just boarded 2 basics and 2-3 bounce, and if im playing red ETW  against Stax and it has always been favorable for TPS. IMO that is one of the reasons to play TPS, it allready has a good shop match up.

It is true against Tezz if they resolve Arcane Lab then it is likely a uphill battle, but I don't think that justifies enough of a reason to play bob out of the board. I don't think that TPS is respected enough for players to devote cards that are specific hate towards TPS. (A SB analysis could disprove this, this is just a general thought). I have been boarding in 2 Thoughtseize and have been quite happy with that against Tezz. Also if you are worried about Arcane Lab you can always bring in a second Chain of vapor out of the board.