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Author Topic: Questions about Silence, Orims Chant and Isochron Scepter  (Read 12444 times)
Carnac
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« on: November 19, 2009, 02:25:52 pm »

Once again, sorry for posting questions, that for you guys might seem newbish, I dont mean to spam, but its actually quite difficult to find the answers using google.
As told, Ive been away from magic for like 8 years, and a lot has changed.

So... recently I saw this new card "Silence" and thought "Wtf... a 1-white-mana Timewalk!?" Thats really lame, I gotta get my hand on four of those.
I had to pay a Taiga dualland for 3 x Silence... Bad deal for me? I dont know, but Silence seems like a powerful card to me. Afterwards I discovered an even more lame card named "Orim's Chant"...pfff...

According to the rules that I know, if my opponent cast a spell, and I respond with Silence being an instant, my opponents spell will fizzle. But now I am told, that it wont... huh? It says on the card that "Spells cast before this resolves are unaffected".

Now is this a new lame rule? After the Mogg-Fanatic-trick, it wont surprise me, but I want to be sure, so my questions are:

1: My opponent cast a spell, I respond with Silence. Will his spell go off or fizzle?

2: My opponent cast a spell, I respond with Orim's Chant. Will his spell go off or fizzle?

3: Are Isochron Scepter + Silence/ Orim’s Chant combo really legal in Legacy? To me this combo seems more lame than Trix or Memory Jar.

4: Is the Dark Depths/ Vampire Hexmage combo legal in Legacy? I mean… they ban Tinker for being able to get a turn 2 Colossus. But if a turn 2 (using maybe Dark Ritual) 20/20 indestructible creature aint even more lame, I don’t know what else to say… and why is it people are so fond of Tarmogoyf and Baneslayer if they can get a turn 2 Marit Lage?
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Anusien
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 02:40:05 pm »

Orim's Chant, Silence, and Abeyance do not affect spells played before them.  They only stop the player from playing any more spells after they resolve.  So your opponent can respond to Silence by playing a Lightning Bolt, for example.

Also, we don't use the term "fizzle" anymore.  Just countered.

1: My opponent cast a spell, I respond with Silence. Will his spell go off or fizzle?
Their spell will still resolve.

2: My opponent cast a spell, I respond with Orim's Chant. Will his spell go off or fizzle?
Their spell will still resolve.

3: Are Isochron Scepter + Silence/ Orim’s Chant combo really legal in Legacy? To me this combo seems more lame than Trix or Memory Jar.
Yep.  Check out the Legacy banned list here.

4: Is the Dark Depths/ Vampire Hexmage combo legal in Legacy? I mean… they ban Tinker for being able to get a turn 2 Colossus. But if a turn 2 (using maybe Dark Ritual) 20/20 indestructible creature aint even more lame, I don’t know what else to say… and why is it people are so fond of Tarmogoyf and Baneslayer if they can get a turn 2 Marit Lage?
Yep.  Check out the Legacy banned list here.
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Carnac
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 02:47:27 pm »

Really really lame.... To me 4 x Vampire Hexmage, 4 x Dark Depths, 4 x Worldly Tutor and 4 x Crop rotation pretty much looks like a win...
Say... you throw in 20 lands too... leaves 24 slots to protect your combo...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 03:34:34 pm by Carnac » Logged
Wagner
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 04:09:03 pm »

Really really lame.... To me 4 x Vampire Hexmage, 4 x Dark Depths, 4 x Worldly Tutor and 4 x Crop rotation pretty much looks like a win...
Say... you throw in 20 lands too... leaves 24 slots to protect your combo...

Yet again no so deck is played, and it's been a while since I saw Isochron and Orim's Chant played together.

They are good yes, but somehow not good enough for Legacy.

Marit Lage can still be destroyed with Wasteland or Sitfle or killed with Swords to Plowshare.

Isochron and Orim's Chant require a lot of cards and can be very slow to set up.
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Clariax
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 04:37:45 pm »

This is the rules forum, folks.  If you want to discuss what you think is, or is not, a good deck, how strong some combo is, or some other form of strategy, please do so elsewhere.
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Aaron Cutler
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 04:53:41 pm »

Orim's Chant has NEVER been able to counter spells (nor Silence).  This is NOT a M2010 rules change.  The only change was that the card uses "cast" instead of "play" and this is purely to be less confusing since we also use play to describe laying lands. 

To understand why Orim's Chant/Silence cannot counter spells, you have to understand the stack (like a pile of pancakes). 

1. Your opponent casts a spell X.
2. You cast Chant/Silence.
3. You/Your opponent passes priority/does not play another instant.  Now we resolve the stack from most recent to least recent. (Eat the topmost pancake)
4. Chant/Silence resolve.  From this point onward your opponent cannot cast spells for the turn.
5. Spell X resolves since it had already been cast and put on the stack before Chant/Silence resolved.

That is not to say that Chant/Silence are not good cards, but even if you play them during their upkeep before they would have played any spells, they still get to draw a card and play a land for the turn, unlike Timewalk.

The reason Goyf and Baneslayer are played is that they are good BY THEMSELVES and do not need to be paired with other cards to be good/do anything at all. 
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Gandalf_The_White_1
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 09:41:43 pm »

To understand why Orim's Chant/Silence cannot counter spells, you have to understand the stack (like a pile of pancakes). 

1. Your opponent casts a spell X.
2. You cast Chant/Silence.
3. You/Your opponent passes priority/does not play another instant.  Now we resolve the stack from most recent to least recent. (Eat the topmost pancake)
4. Chant/Silence resolve.  From this point onward your opponent cannot cast spells for the turn.
5. Spell X resolves since it had already been cast and put on the stack before Chant/Silence resolved.
This is exactly correct.  I think the OP is confused about these cards because of targeting rules.  The time a spell with "fizzle," that is, become countered upon resolution, is when its target no longer exists or is no longer legal.  This is because targeted spells check for targets both when they are cast AND upon resolution.  Silence/Chant is not the same thing as removing or altering a spell's target, and therefore does not stop a spell from resolving when it has already been put on the stack.
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 10:16:48 pm »

Silence says right on the card: "Spells cast before this resolves are unaffected."
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