ritual based wgd

[shroomy2dope]

i think cunning wish is being underplayed here.
1(it is a win spell.
2(it can pull any instant from your board for 3. which means you can bounce twice game 1.
3(it provide an alternate win beyond your creature. which means you can win through extirpate.
4(it enables me to run demonic consultation.

here's the thing. are lists diverge at several junctures. you are one step away from removing duress and adding FOW. thereby making your list the initial WGD list. that is fine. the deck has always been good. once intuition is added its own personal support system comes with it. deep analysis. then moxen to cast it early game as a tutor.

the decision to run moxen over ritual means that you greatly reduce your first turn kill probability, and increase your stable mana base which is quite irrelevant in the first two turns.
if this is the path you deem to take i propose that you up your D.A. count to 4, and include necromancy over dance.

the other factor of difference in our builds is that you don't stick around for game 2.
i run dragon all 3 games. i fight through the hate and lure my opponent in to boarding against oath via the lands i let them see.

i would like off color moxes in my build to cast animate second turn after a turn one bazaar, but not at the cost of ritual.

and i can not believe that a petal is better than a mox unless you want to play a long game. none of the other 3 mox can cast ritual entomb or a tutor. the relevance of petal is often blue for a read the runes after you just ritualed off your land.
however i suppose without brainstorm, imperial seal, demonic consultation, and only 1 ritual, a mox may be the better choice for you. just hope you don't want to cast an ancestral recall and entomb on turn 1.

all in all i like your list, however, i beleive you are on the threshold of regressing back to the original lists and gaining no speed in the process.





edit:
sideboard
-1swamp
+1pithing needle
this helps against dredge as well as stax. i normally never lose to dredge post board fate stitcher or traditional.
the dredge plan looks like this.
-3bazaar
-4duress
-1runes
-1ritual
-1necromancy
+4leyline
+3pithing needle
+2chain of vapor
+1echoing truth

[shroomy2dope]

the side board has changed to include 1 hurkyll's recall and 1tormod's crypt. the list now looks like this:
Creatures(5)
4 worldgorger dragon
1 caller of the claw
artifacts(5)
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mox saphire
1 mox jet
1 mana crypt
enchantments(7)
4 animate dead
3 dance of the dead
1 necromancy
instants(19)
4 dark ritual
4 entomb
4 read the runes
2 cunning wish
1 demonic consultation
1 vampiric tutor
1 ancestral recall
1 brainstorm
sorcery(7)
4 duress
1 demonic tutor
1 imperial seal
land(17)
4 bazaar of baghdad
4 forbidden orchard
1 polluted delta
4 underground sea
4 misty rainforest
1 gemstone mine

sideboard
1 lake of the dead
1 echoing truth
2 chain of vapor
1 stroke of genius
3 pithing needle
1 pact of negation
4 leyline of the void
1 hurkyll's recall
1 tormods crypt

an idea for further posting.... not many players expect to see WGD in a competative enviorment, therefor they do not pack sideboard cards especially for it. so my question is what would you board in against WGD from what deck. extirpate is clearly the best choice however most people i play against only pack leylines, crypts, and relics for yard removal. traps are also efficient but i don't beleive many players consider that.

 the large question is this: if you were to play against wgd and see orchard, misty, and no green spells, would you board for dragon combo or oath of druids?

[swawagon]

Through the course of a smaller tournament, 15-35 players or so, the room would probably somewhat know what you are running. Dragon... or Dragon, with Oath board. yadda yadda.
For the most part - what I mean is, surprise is less important than the quality of a sideboard.

But your sideboard is fine. I surely don't know for sure if fighting or dodging Dragon hate is better.

I've been testing Entomb-Dragon against some Tez lists and am winning many fewer game ones than I'd like. I think more Thoughtseize (or Pack of Negation, Spell Pierce) would help because if they pack Echoing Truth or Chain of Vapor and you got for it early (which you have to do with these builds) - every time it was a game loss. Dragon cannot recover from losing it's board per a bounced Worldgorger Dragon.

Sometimes you can cast more Animate Spells (you run 8) than they have counters, but cannot fight bounce the same way.

[TheBrassMan]

the large question is this:  if you were to play against wgd and see orchard, misty, and no green spells, would you board for dragon combo or oath of druids?

Specifically on this topic, I've seen this before, and in my opinion it's one of the classic mistakes of sideboarding.  Enchantment hate, or just bounce, is equally devastating to both Oath and Dragon.  It would be devastating to sacrifice deck strength on a gambit, hoping to trick your opponent, actually succeed in tricking them, and then lose because they cards they boarded in to beat oath (maybe e truth, ray of revelation, diabolic edict) beat Dragon anyway.

[shroomy2dope]

@swawagon
you are right about the thoughtsieze and i've emphasized many times that i would like to fit more them in. i beleive it is really what the build needs. would you have any suggestions on their inclusion that does not call for the removal of wish.

on the topic of board configuration vs. second game hate.... well i suppose i meant it like this, enchantment removal that comes in for oath, along with diabolic edict are good against dragon, but not game over. Greater Garadon is useless, bounce is harsh as well, but not game over and if a player had additional bounce in the board they would send it in against dragon or oath. the point is that dragon can still fight through all of this. however, dragon can not fight through extirpate, and fighting through crypt/relic is much more difficult than replaying your field. it does not take much time to get on-line again with dragon

i'm still up in the air as to whether  the transformational build or the fight and hate build is better.
i am sure about some facts though.
with oath in i would rather see dragon hate.
with dragon in i would rather see oath hate, even though it is still effective against dragon.
this tells me that deception is a strong element, and i would like to exploit that.
so the information i was trying to garner from my question was highly relevant in determining which sideboard may be the optimal choice.

@brassman
i thouroughly agree with your statement on something of this nature being a classic mistake in sideboarding. however, if you analze my sideboard posted, against the transformational oath boards, then compare that to the current feild, do you really think i'm sacrificing deck strength.
the only strength i may lose through the deception could be the tokens i give them from orchard. but if that means i see a GG or even a diabolic edict game 2 instead of an extirpate then i think it was well worth it. Gambits do not always come at a sacrifice

thank you both for your posts. any more input will be appreciated.

[swawagon]

1 Oona
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Street Wraith

4 Bazaar
3 Read the Runes
4 Intuition

4 Animate Dead
4 Dance of the Dead

4 Entomb
1 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize

2 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Orchard

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
4 Moxen


This is what I've been testing. It's fast, but dies if it does not win early.

Intuition, Deep Analysis, Street Wraith all have great synergy. Intuition is about the most flexible tool in the deck.

I think you should try Deep Analysis. It does help keep up with other docks.

Also Imperial Seal and Vampiric Tutor work well with Street Wraith, turning them to in-hand tutors.

[shroomy2dope]

yeah i imagine tutors do make wraiths good. that was my favorite part of whispers and study. it allowed for some crazy first turns when you saw multiple accelerants.
have you ever tried running the DA in the board to maximize speed on game 1. or do you still play  complete oath board?

by the bye- how is your match up against dredge?