De-Powering Vintage

[Soapbot]

Hey you guys, We all know the staples that go into every vintage deck. I've been fiddling around with some meta and rogue decks
and I'm finding out a couple of things about the P-9 and others. Mainly the moxen, sol ring, and mana crypt. While these cards are integral in most decks,
sometimes they seem to be a burden. When faced with decks such such as, stax, mud, fish, and other artifact disruption the moxen, crypt, and ring
turn into little more the hand bluffs or table trash. This is sorta my new strategy, just giving it a test run, but its worked pretty well

-include sapphire and jet (most cards are these colors)
-you decidei if you include ruby (for an extra red for artifact and blue hate)
-omit emerald and pearl (unless playing these colors, they are just land)

Null rod turns all the moxes into nothing, why have 9 cards in your deck that get shut down by null (5 mox, lotus, cyrpt, ring,etc...)
a first turn chalice chokes off 7 of your cards. Not to mention drawing into a useless mox late game.
De-powering has allowed me very substantial draws, and when a null rod or chalice hits the board, it doesn't completly choke
off your deck,  and your future draws are less likely to be useless.  Also your opening hand doesn't need 2 lands 1 mox and sol ring wiith sensei's top,
you need the meat and potatoes of your deck, the disruption, draw and buisness.  Albeit De-powering makes my deck a bit
slower, but waaaaaay more consistent. And that is more important
Thoughseizing an opponent and seeing a bunch of artifact mana, basically means they are topdecking from then on.  Just
wanted to know what you guys think. Playing with the moxes is cool, but sometimes they backfire, so trade a little acceleration for
more consistency.

[scifiantihero]

I don't think you would advocate not running workshops because of wastelands, or restricted blue cards because of counterspells, would you?

I don't think you're suggesting anything that heavy disruption decks such as landstill or fish haven't figured out, historically.  The decks that benefit from full power, still want the full power, though.   They're designed to.

Do you have alternate lists for Tezz/Oath/Stax/Tps that run light artifact mana?

As far as slower, but more consistent goes:  that will still lose to decks that are faster.

[Ruven]

Not to mention, you can't run Tinker when you don't have enough artifacts for backup...or to create storm with mass artifact bounce etc...

[Soapbot]

I don't think you would advocate not running workshops because of wastelands, or restricted blue cards because of counterspells, would you?

That comment is flimsy, Stax Absolutely NEEDS 4 workshops, its what makes the deck powerful.  Not all decks require 5 mox, crypt, ring, mana vault.

I don't think you're suggesting anything that heavy disruption decks such as landstill or fish haven't figured out, historically.  The decks that benefit from full power, still want the full power, though.   They're designed to.

I understand that, but personally I feel that fish is a strong deck against meta, and very easy to pick up, fish type aggro are gaining some ground. de-powering (even a second game
sideboard de-powering) might be a micro-strategy

Do you have alternate lists for Tezz/Oath/Stax/Tps that run light artifact mana?

As far as slower, but more consistent goes:  that will still lose to decks that are faster.

Fast decks are less consistent you trade off. Flash hulk and doomsday- very powerful and fast if not the fastest- but fragile to disruption and hands filled with no business

[silvernail]

Hate to tell you but, everyone already knows this.

You get basically two choices : run p9 and other artifact mana  OR run null rod/ chalice of the void.

You either build with the strategy or against it - simply omitting both choices from your deck is not terribly feasible in most vintage metagames because you will make your deck consistently incapable of dealing with faster decks.

To win a race you have to be faster than the opponent , you can do this by matching and out pacing them or by slowing them down.

[Soapbot]

Not to mention, you can't run Tinker when you don't have enough artifacts for backup...or to create storm with mass artifact bounce etc...

well you will, what's 2 or 3 artifacts from a tinker deck honestly, and with chalice on the table you can't bounce anyway.

[Rico Suave]

What good is a 4th land when you lost the game in the first 3 turns?

[InfectedMushroom]

Even in the Stax matchup, you must remember that a Mox is still a permanent that can be sacrificed to Smokestack. Being able to lay a land and Tinker turn two is a very strong play against many decks. By removing three artifacts from your list, you are not only a slower deck, you also have greatly reduced your percentages on getting an early game Tinker.

well you will, what's 2 or 3 artifacts from a tinker deck honestly, and with chalice on the table you can't bounce anyway.

Many decks run multiple bounce spells to be able to get around CoTV set on a particular number.

Is there any particular style of deck you are advocating this for? A decklist would be very helpful so that we can more understand your reasoning.