[Duel] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

[Mr. Fantastic]

So I got tired of people complaining about how unfair Rofellos was and decided to piece together a "fair" deck around a creature that caught my eye when I was first making the effort to bone up on relevant printings from 2003-2009.  I came up with a Fishy list based on small, efficient creatures and creature theft.  This list is still quite raw and could be greatly improved.  And don't bother trying this in multiplayer; it's hard enough controlling one opponent's side of the board while steadily bringing their life total to 0.  Still, I like the concept of a Fish duel deck and this might just be the first of many attempts so stay tuned to this forum for further decks in this vein.

Enough with the preamble.  Let's get on with it.  Here is the list as of 12/14/09.

General
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

Creatures
Gilded Drake
Waterfront Bouncer
Tradewind Rider
Man-o-War
Callous Oppressor
Old Man of the Sea
Sower of Temptation
Lord of Atlantis
Cursecatcher
Merfolk Sovereign
Merrow Reejery
River Merfolk
Vendilion Clique
Spellstutter Sprite
Cloud Spirit
Rishadan Airship
Spiketail Hatchling
Spiketail Drakeling
Voidmage Prodigy
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Ophidian
Draining Welk
Morphling
Masticore
Serendib Efreet
Keiga, the Tide Star

Bounce and Theft
Repeal
Echoing Truth
Capsize
Cryptic Command
Control Magic
Treachery
Vedalken Shackles
Dominate
Spin into Myth (anti-general tech, yes)

Counters
Counterspell
Forbid
Force of Will
Misdirection
Mana Leak
Mana Drain
Remand
Foil
Hinder (more anti-general tech)
Overwhelming Intellect
Spell Pierce

Draw/Manipulation
Brainstorm
Fact or Fiction
Gush
Gifts Ungiven
Standstill
Sensei's Divining Top

Other
Back to Basics
Sword of Fire and Ice
Umezawa's Jitte

Mana
Sol Ring
Mutavault
Snow-covered Island
Faerie Conclave
Mishra's Factory
Wasteland
Dustbowl
Strip Mine
Lonely Sandbar
Scalding Tarn
Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Misty Rainforest
Thawing Glaciers
31 Island

I hope that is 100 cards.  These lists are quite difficult to type up and organize coherently due to their length, as you well know.

A Note or Two on the List
-Matt suggested Draining Welk on another thread, perhaps jokingly.  Well, all jokes aside, this card is pretty good in EDH as a late game counterspell, as is Overwhelming Intellect, another new pet card I just discovered last week via MTG Forge.
-Morphling obviously isn't that good under the new rules of combat damage but is still probably better than say, Serra Sphinx as a mid to late game creature that can attack for 5 or block for X (or both).
-In general this deck just wants to drop 2 to 3 small threats and then sit on counter magic and creature thievery/bounce, as is the wont of many a similar deck.  Fatties like Sphinx of the Jwar Isle are attractive but costly.  Keiga is on probation as it is.
-Kai needs more Wizards to really be put to good use but I actually don't know of that many playable mono U Wizards. Help?
-Gilded Drake is an MVP with all of the bounce, especially re-usable bounce such as Capsize and Tradewind.  And my oh my, is it ever nice to use those old favorites once more in a magic deck.
-The Merfolk are probably the worst creatures in the deck since they usually suck on their own. I'm ready to cut them just as soon as I find something better.
-If you're wondering where Curiosity is, it didn't make the cut for the same reason I don't have more equipment—Kira's trigger works against you in addition to your opponents.


Looking forward to your suggestions.

[Modred]

Hello again!  Clearly, your decks were superior to mine when we played on MWS, but I wanted to suggest Bribery for your deck.  Fetching your opponents Fatty from his library, along with Kira, while not insta-win, can be extremely valuable. 

I'm also trying to squeeze a Jushi Apprentice into my Kira deck.  You might think about it too.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Hello again!  Clearly, your decks were superior to mine when we played on MWS, but I wanted to suggest Bribery for your deck.  Fetching your opponents Fatty from his library, along with Kira, while not insta-win, can be extremely valuable.  

I'm also trying to squeeze a Jushi Apprentice into my Kira deck.  You might think about it too.

Hey Modred.  Nice seeing you here.

Jushi looks attractive since it's a Wizard and thus has synergy with Kai.  Its power-to-casting-cost ratio leaves a bit to be desired but obviously the Jayemdae Tome on legs ability might be too powerful to ignore.

Bribery was and still is a consideration, and looks especially good if your opponent has 187 creatures like Angel of Despair.  I'm thinking maybe I should take out some of the weenies for slower cards since the format isn't about speed and Spiketail Hatchling isn't that good against an opponent with 10 lands and 40 life.

Edit: seeing Bribery reminds me of another long forgotten Mercadian Masques blue card—Coastal Piracy. It certainly would be more than a replacement for Curiosity.  I think it's probably a must for my build of the deck.

[Matt]

Needs Thwart! Also Daze? Definitely Dismiss.

Also Aether Vial is probably very good here.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Needs Thwart! Also Daze? Definitely Dismiss.

Also Aether Vial is probably very good here.

Thwart—thought about it since this is basically Blue Skies (old Mercadian Masques block constructed for the uninitiated) and wasn't sure what to take out or put in.

Daze—tested it and it was pretty horrible since I kept top decking it turn 20 when my opponent had 12 lands out.  Obviously great on exactly turns 3 through 6 against mass removal but it was never drawn in those scenarios.

Dismiss—another card on my radar that has been quite good in Numot.  Right now I feel like I'm already light on creatures with only 26 so I'm not sure what to take out for this and Thwart, though they both probably belong.

Aether Vial—see Daze.  Another card that underperformed badly in testing.  You have to remember what horrible top decks a lot of cards make that are generally seen as good when played in sets of 4 in a 60 card deck.  

[Matt]

Sea Drake, then.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Sea Drake, then.

Added.

Dismiss, Thwart, and Coastal Piracy are also in now.  Merfolk are out.  I also found room for a Sphinx of Jwar Isle somehow since EDH is so ridiculously slow (which is a good thing since it makes Tradewind and Capsize near auto-wins).

I'm thinking of even adding a Clone or Vesuvan Doppelganger to get double Tradewinds going but Kira makes that tough.

Edit: also, I want to add Opposition but am not sure how to really take advantage of it.  I'm honestly considering Homarid Spawning Bed which would combo with Old Man/Vedalken Shackles and/or Gilded Drake recursion.  We'll see where this goes.

Re-edit: crap, it has to be a blue creature!  Well, so much for that idea.

[Mr. Fantastic]

One thing I'm noticing in earnest now is that blue's lack of good creatures can be offset greatly simply by focusing entirely on stealing your opponents.  Originally this element of the deck was merely a supplement to the beat down but now it is becoming Plan A, so to speak.

With that said, I cut some more crap like Cloud Spirit and Rishadan Airship and even the not-entirely-awful-yet-not-quite-pulling-its-weight Spellstutter Sprite.

In:

Bribery
Mind Control
Persuasion
Thieving Magpie
Opposition

[DubDub]

I don't see Glen Elendra Archmage anywhere, which is really good on its own, and could be huge with all your bounce.  Do you have enough wizards to support Riptide Laboratory?  The ability targets, so that may not be something you want.

[Portalis]

mana leak and spell pierce are ok in early game but if you draw them late game they are kinda crappy.

maybe counters like
Put Away
Discombobulate
Faerie Trickery

if you are playing mono blue wouldn't Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power speed up your mana as well.

[Sporkcore]

Vendilion Clique is awesome in 1 on 1. Either gets something out of your opponents hand or gets a card that's poor at the time out of your hand.

[Matt]

I'm thinking of even adding a Clone or Vesuvan Doppelganger to get double Tradewinds going but Kira makes that tough.

None of those cards target. Also Vesuvan Shapeshifter if you want to go old-school.

Vendilion Clique is awesome in 1 on 1. Either gets something out of your opponents hand or gets a card that's poor at the time out of your hand.

He already has this.

if you are playing mono blue wouldn't Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power speed up your mana as well.

This is a great idea, btw. Glen Elendra Archmage, too!

[Sporkcore]

Sorry, I didn't see it.

[Anusien]

Jace is probably reasonable card draw.  Also, I would suggest seeing if you can get more activated abilities into the deck to run Rings of Brighthearth. Using it with Waterfront Bouncer or Vedalken Shackles seems really good.

[Mr. Fantastic]

I don't see Glen Elendra Archmage anywhere, which is really good on its own, and could be huge with all your bounce.  Do you have enough wizards to support Riptide Laboratory?  The ability targets, so that may not be something you want.

I don't honestly know if I have enough Wizards to take advantage of Riptide Lab.  Kai is actually quite good on his own, I have found but it's not like his ability is a 187 or comes-into-play effect.  Glen Elendra has gone into the deck. Thanks for the suggestion.  I didn't know about this card but it looks great.  Riptide is looking even more attractive now that I have added Venser, Shaper Savant. I am going to add it and see what happens.  If it starts being disruptive in the opening hand (I need UU early and often) it might not be worth it but I'd probably cut Mishra's Factory over this if it turns out to work well.

Here are some more updates, for those who care

-Coastal Piracy is gone.  It lost its usefulness when I dropped the cheap fliers like Spiketail Hatchling and Cloud Spirit.  I also didn't like tapping 4 during my main phase for what was generally a cantrip in terms of immediate game impact.  I actually saw this card put to good use in an old Extended deck full of fish creatures but I have far less weenies now.  For the same reason, Opposition turned out to be hilariously bad. Tap four during your main phase for a really bad Icy Manipulator? No thanks.  

-I just learned Gifts Ungiven is banned in EDH and it is not hard to see why.  Gifts for Back to Basics, Capsize, and whatever other two cards were immediately most useful tended to be a game breaker.  So yeah, no more Gifts.

-Riftwing Cloudskate came and went.  It is not missed.  3 turns is a long time to wait and 5 mana is a lot for a 2/2, even one with a very good ability.  Speaking of creatures that just weren't that good, Serendib Efreet is a joke in a format with 40 life.  You're just paying 3 mana for a really, really slow clock.  How unremarkable compared to the surprise hit of the deck, Callous Oppressor (added trivia: a pet card of Kai Budde).  Sea Drake was incredibly bad in the opening hand since you're practically Plow Under-ing yourself and on turn 15, who needs a 3cc creature?

-Dominate is ridiculous in the late game; a thousand times better than a Control Magic like aura as it laughs at enchantment removal and can be used as a rude surprise; in response to a creature being equipped for example.  It also permanently steals man lands for the very low cost of 1UU.  But I kept drawing it in the early to mid game and finding myself one mana short of dominating a general time and again.  Depending on your list you might want to keep it in as it is very good with lots of mana.  In fact, I'm tempted to re-add it with the Gauntlet and Lens (excellent suggestions, thanks; more cards I wasn't aware of).

-Rings of Brighthearth is very, very good in Conjunction with Jitte (on opposing creatures), Bouncer, Shackles, Tradewind, Old Man, Callous Oppresor, and especially the dreaded late game Dust Bowl. It's yet to be dead.  Thanks Anusien.

There have been so many changes I honestly can't tell you exactly was taken out from the original list.  Here is a full run down of the deck as of 12/15/09.

General
Kira, obviously!

Creatures
Keiga, the Tide Star
Gilded Drake
Waterfront Bouncer
Tradewind Rider
Masticore (on the cusp of being eliminated)
Man-o-War
Old Man of the Sea
Ophidian (see Masticore; I've learned what is good in traditional formats is not always good in EDH)
Morphling
Sower of Temptation
Draining Whelk
Callous Oppressor
Spiketail Drakeling
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Vendilion Clique
Voidmage Prodigy
Thieving Magpie
Venser, Shaper Savant (added 1 minute ago, no testing yet but it has to be good)
Glen Elendra Archmage
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Vesuvan Shapeshifter (thanks Matt)

Bounce and Thievery
Repeal
Echoing Truth
Capsize
Cryptic Command
Spin into Myth
Control Magic
Treachery
Vedalken Shackles
Mind Control
Bribery (thanks Modred)
Persuasion
Treachery

Counters
Mana Leak
Mana Drain
Forbid
Counterspell
Misdirection (used this on a Curse of the Cabal in back to back games; *evil laughter*)
Force of Will
Remand
Foil
Hinder
Dismiss
Thwart
Overwhelming Intellect (even on a 3cc creature, you're getting 4 for 1; better than Stroke of Genius—insane on most generals)

Draw/Manipulation
Brainstorm
Fact or Fiction
Gush
Standstill
Sensei's Divining Top
Jace Beleren

Other
Gauntlet of Power
Extraplanar Lens
Rings of Brighthearth
Back to Basics
Umezawa's Jitte (too powerful to ignore even with Kira's drawback; now the only remaining equipment)

Mana
Sol Ring
Mutavault
Faerie Conclave (I just realized this card is very much in the same boat as Serendib, only worse since you have to keep paying)
Mishra's Factory
Thawing Glaciers
Lonely Sandbar
Scalding Tarn
Flooded Strand
Misty Rainforest
Polluted Delta
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Riptide Laboratory
32 Island

That's a lot of mana; 44, including Sol Ring.  I've found this deck is thirsty for mana at all times.  Getting land screwed is far more intolerable than flooded.  So many of the cards are instants or have activated ability costs that I never find myself with very many untapped lands during my upkeep.

[Modred]

One more that you missed, that you really must, MUST have. 

TUNNEL VISION

With spin and hinder, its a really silly way to win.

[DubDub]

Ok, I'll say it:
Tidespout Tyrant
Rite of Replication
Time Spiral
Decree of Silence

All have a place in 'big-blue'.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Hey all.  Thanks again for all of the responses.  This will probably be my last post on the EDH board for a while since, quite frankly, I'm ashamed of the amount of time I've been putting into this silly format.

First, let me say what a dunce I am, having missed one of the best blue creatures ever printed, Meloku, the Clouded Mirror.  And I can't claim ignorance either.  I knew all about this card but it never crossed my mind until I saw it across the table from me as an opposing general. D'oh!  Ah well, better late than never.  I'm not sure what is coming out but this is definitely going in.  I'd also like to put the Rings of Brighthearth to better use with another pet card, Helm of Possession (note the synergy with Callous Oppressor and Keiga).  I'd even like to squeeze in a Somnophore if I could, a pet card for many years and extremely useful vs. most green decks.  But all of this will have to wait until I'm satisfied with my non-Magic to do list.  I've said it before and I'll say it again—I hate it when real life gets in the way of gaming.

And now a little quote-and-respond before I fade into the shadows...

One more that you missed, that you really must, MUST have.  

TUNNEL VISION

With spin and hinder, its a really silly way to win.

As great as the synergy with the two cards you listed is, I question whether it's truly a "must" have or is a "nice" to have.  To wit, it is a 6 casting cost sorcery that is more or less dead on its own.  If you want to combine it with Spin, its 11 mana total; 9 with Hinder.  Both of those cards are good on their own.  I question whether the same can be said for Tunnel.  In fact, in order for it to really be a game breaker, I think you'd have to build your deck around it.

Ok, I'll say it:
Tidespout Tyrant
Rite of Replication
Time Spiral
Decree of Silence

All have a place in 'big-blue'.

Tidespout—obviously an amazing card but 8 mana?  I have Extraplanar Lens, Sol Ring, and Gauntlet to accelerate production and I don't really think that is adequate to reliably cast this card.  In fact, I have cast Keiga exactly zero times over 5 games of drawing it since it's not like you want to just tap out and let down the shields.  By the time you are ready to cast cards like Tidespout, you actually don't want to.

Rite of Replication—looks good.  Testing will follow.

Time Spiral—see Tidespout; by the time this card is playable, I frequently have a full hand of 6 to 7 cards and am just sitting on counter magic.

Decree of Silence—probably the strongest consideration of the cards you listed.  Testing is required but it looks playable, certainly.

[smasher]

Desertion seems a good fit for a lot of decks running blue, specifically in your list with steal their stuff theme. Commandeer and Spelljack are pretty nice too. Spelljacking generals and just not playing it are ways to permanently deal with them.

Chamber of manipulation is pretty nice for combat tricks.

Roil Elemental is worth some consideration in mono blue.

High tide for some late game blowout by dropping your hand.

Evacuation if you are looking for a mass removal spell.

I really like mulldrifter. I notice you dropped the sphinx of jwar isle from your newest list. If he was too much mana then mulldrifter is your man Although I think I'd try to fit in both.

Opportunity is pretty nice being instant. Not sure if it is better than stroke though

Winding canyons is an auto include in all my decks. Specifically in a more controlling deck like this.

Urza's factory is the one and only manland I ever play. I even make room for it in my 5color decks.

Tolaria West to tutor for your urzas factory or other utility land or even tormods crypt if you decide you need some gy hate.

Almost every deck plays a few nice targets for Acquire.

Solem Simulacrum seems fine since he ramps your mana and he is great to use as a chump blocker.

Amnesia is such a strong card in duels I wouldn't play without it.

Hopefully you give some of these a try, I've played most of these in various decks but feel like in mono blue most of them are a great fit.

A few I forgot to list earlier

Aeon chronicler
Flow of ideas
Rewind
reliquary tower
Dissipate and/or faerie trickery
Forbid
Spell burst
Duplicant
Academy ruins

[Modred]

One more that you missed, that you really must, MUST have.  

TUNNEL VISION

With spin and hinder, its a really silly way to win.

As great as the synergy with the two cards you listed is, I question whether it's truly a "must" have or is a "nice" to have.  To wit, it is a 6 casting cost sorcery that is more or less dead on its own.  If you want to combine it with Spin, its 11 mana total; 9 with Hinder.  Both of those cards are good on their own.  I question whether the same can be said for Tunnel.  In fact, in order for it to really be a game breaker, I think you'd have to build your deck around it.

It is important to note, Spin is an Instant.  Its not imperative to have all the mana in one turn.

[serracollector]

your missing one of the most important spells for blue there is in EDH, especially for a control deck like yours:

Declaration of Naught.  Stops generals in there tracks.