2 questions on buying Vintage staples..

[reaperbong]

1. How do you calculate the value of FBB dual lands? I've heard everything from 3-4x the price of Revised. Also is there a rough estimation on how many were printed in each language versus Revised? I've noticed German duals tend to go for a bit more, is that because there was a lower run of German 3rd?

2. What do you think are the chances of WOTC ever reprinting Imperial Seal? I'm thinking about buying one now but the white border and higher price for English is annoying. Also why are the Asian versions of Imperial Seal cheaper than the English version when it's vice versu with cards like a Japanese Goblin Welder? Is it simply down to rarity? If so is there a rough estimation on how many Chinese/Japanese Imperial Seals exist versus English?

Thanks

[A_Outcast]

The only answer I know is about the price thing for #2.  P3K was only really sold in washington, california, and asia.  It was sold a lot more in asia therefor is more common.

[M.Solymossy]

1. How do you calculate the value of FBB dual lands? I've heard everything from 3-4x the price of Revised.

German duals go for more because it's considered the most "pimp" since asian languages didn't see print back then.   As for the dual prices:

Sea's:  I picked up my last german Sea for 120, but that's cheap.  Expect to pay up to 160 for these.  I can see them capping 200 or even 250 by the time SCG is done with their 5K series.

Volcanics & Trops:   100-120

Tundras:  110-130.   For some reason, these are impossible to find (at least for me).  I have 4 seas, and 2 of each other blue, with lines on 2 more, and I can't locate tundra's.  


A bayou runs around 80.   Savannahs are 60-70.   Plateau's are 50-60.   Not sure on Taiga's.  I can sitll get badlands for less than 50.  They're the cheapest one.  Plateau used to be, but it's played in Legacy Zoo.

2. What do you think are the chances of WOTC ever reprinting Imperial Seal? I'm thinking about buying one now but the white border and higher price for English is annoying. Also why are the Asian versions of Imperial Seal cheaper than the English version when it's vice versu with cards like a Japanese Goblin Welder? Is it simply down to rarity? If so is there a rough estimation on how many Chinese/Japanese Imperial Seals exist versus English?

It's about rarity.  I wouldn't buy this.  Imperial seal could very easily see print again.

[yukizora]

2. What do you think are the chances of WOTC ever reprinting Imperial Seal? I'm thinking about buying one now but the white border and higher price for English is annoying. Also why are the Asian versions of Imperial Seal cheaper than the English version when it's vice versu with cards like a Japanese Goblin Welder? Is it simply down to rarity? If so is there a rough estimation on how many Chinese/Japanese Imperial Seals exist versus English?

It's about rarity.  I wouldn't buy this.  Imperial seal could very easily see print again.

It will certainly not be reprinted, not at least for a while. It's a collectible and WotC will need a long time to do this decision. If you actually need it for your decks, go for it.

[2nd_lawl]

I doubt Imperial seal will be reprinted, for a couple reasons:

1) Its Overpowered.  This pretty much means it wont ever be included in a "regular" set as it is pretty significantly above the power curve. Just look at recently printed Black Tutors.

2) Its Banned in Legacy, which limit's its appeal.

3) Its Not really an iconic card the way DT, yawg will, or other banned cards(that have been reprinted) are and since it is just a strictly worse vamp tutor it doesn't have much appeal for casual players who can just get vamp's

4) Wizards hasn't ever really released reprints of cards worth more than 30-40. Berserk from FTV seems to be the top end, and Seal represents a HUGE step up from that in the 200$ range.  A Foil Seal represents reprinting a card 4-5 TIMES more valuable then the previous berserk.  FTV Dragons didn't include Zodiac Dragon, (worth about 100)

[Nazdakka]

I wouldn't be too suprised to see Seal reprinted, either in a FtV-style boxed set or a mass-produced base set. It's a simple, clean card that fits well for black's flavour.

With respect to power level, I know it's banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be problematic in smaller formats. Tutoring is a mechanic that grows in power depending on what it can search for, and bombs of the order of Yawgmoth's Will, Time Vault and Tinker just don't exist in Standard or Extended.

[2nd_lawl]

I wouldn't be too suprised to see Seal reprinted, either in a FtV-style boxed set or a mass-produced base set. It's a simple, clean card that fits well for black's flavour.

With respect to power level, I know it's banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be problematic in smaller formats. Tutoring is a mechanic that grows in power depending on what it can search for, and bombs of the order of Yawgmoth's Will, Time Vault and Tinker just don't exist in Standard or Extended.

Are you serious?  You know how retarded good Seal would be in extended Theps? that deck was playing BESEECH THE QUEEN

[Troy_Costisick]

I wouldn't be too suprised to see Seal reprinted, either in a FtV-style boxed set or a mass-produced base set. It's a simple, clean card that fits well for black's flavour.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see a From the Vault: Tutors down the road.

I doubt Imperial seal will be reprinted, for a couple reasons:

1) Its Overpowered.  This pretty much means it wont ever be included in a "regular" set as it is pretty significantly above the power curve. Just look at recently printed Black Tutors.

Well, that's not much of a reason.  Demo tutor was reprinted in a Duel Deck.

[Diakonov]

After testing the waters with the Berserk reprint, I could imagine seeing a promotional reprint of Seal as a step closer to a possible reprint of higher end reserved list cards.  In other words, if there is any real consideration of reprinting power, they would almost definitely reprint something like this first to see what happens.

[Delha]

Wouldn't Drain/Shop/Bazaar make more sense than Seal as a "test the waters" reprint? Seal sees a lot less play than the pillars, and those see less play than LoMoxen.

Answering my own question, I suppose it makes sense if their test steps follow the order of Seal (or similar) -> Pillars -> Power.

[yukizora]

Wouldn't Drain/Shop/Bazaar make more sense than Seal as a "test the waters" reprint? Seal sees a lot less play than the pillars, and those see less play than LoMoxen.

Answering my own question, I suppose it makes sense if their test steps follow the order of Seal (or similar) -> Pillars -> Power.

Reprinting Seal would have less impact than reprinting more used cards, like Power or BoB, because it's less played.

[Delha]

Right. I just meant that as an intermediate step, Drain is much closer to Power than Seal. The larger disparity between Seal and Power makes it a less viable test.

[JACO]

I wouldn't be too suprised to see Seal reprinted, either in a FtV-style boxed set or a mass-produced base set. It's a simple, clean card that fits well for black's flavour.

With respect to power level, I know it's banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be problematic in smaller formats. Tutoring is a mechanic that grows in power depending on what it can search for, and bombs of the order of Yawgmoth's Will, Time Vault and Tinker just don't exist in Standard or Extended.

Are you serious?  You know how retarded good Seal would be in extended Theps? that deck was playing BESEECH THE QUEEN

Imperial Seal would not be broken in Standard, and it would be great but not broken in Extended. Vampiric Tutor (which is strictly better) existed for the longest time in Extended formats that were both faster and much more broken than today's version of Extended. There is ample precedent.

[InfectedMushroom]

I just finally picked up my English Imperial Seal. They better not reprint it, lol

[2nd_lawl]

I wouldn't be too suprised to see Seal reprinted, either in a FtV-style boxed set or a mass-produced base set. It's a simple, clean card that fits well for black's flavour.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see a From the Vault: Tutors down the road.

I doubt Imperial seal will be reprinted, for a couple reasons:

1) Its Overpowered.  This pretty much means it wont ever be included in a "regular" set as it is pretty significantly above the power curve. Just look at recently printed Black Tutors.

Well, that's not much of a reason.  Demo tutor was reprinted in a Duel Deck.

apparently you don't know what a "regular" set is.

[Diakonov]

Wouldn't Drain/Shop/Bazaar make more sense than Seal as a "test the waters" reprint? Seal sees a lot less play than the pillars, and those see less play than LoMoxen.

Answering my own question, I suppose it makes sense if their test steps follow the order of Seal (or similar) -> Pillars -> Power.

Reprinting Seal would have less impact than reprinting more used cards, like Power or BoB, because it's less played.

True, but if they are willing to reprint something that is a major staple, I would imagine they'd be willing to reprint something like Seal.  It wouldn't be a perfect test, but: 1. it makes more sense to start with Seal if you're possibly planning to eventually reprint old staples; 2. you could still get some idea of how certain prices would react; 3. it would be an indicator or warning sign to those who have power that bigger reprints might be coming, and would give them time to perhaps sell off certain cards if they are worried about losing their investment.  Similar to the idea of abolishing the Reserved List but then promising not to reprint anything on it for the next year.

[Royal Ass.]

Along the lines of price drop impacting the older card, does anyone know the price of Berserk before the reprinted it?  The SCG price for a mint Alpha/Beta Berserk is at $99.  I could be wrong, but I remember it being something like $140 or so (I have an Alphia Berserk so I checked periodically).   A mint Unlimited is listed on SCG as $50.  I don't recall what the pre-reprint price was.  I'd be curious to know what the price change was.  A mint FTV Berserk is listed at $30, $20 less than the unlimited one, despite the fact that the FTV card is BB and foiled.  I wonder if those prices would be closer if the picture on the FTV version didn't suck so bad... and the ABU version wasn't so bad ass.

[smasher]

Pretty sure If I remember correctly the price of unlimited berserk was like 70-90 depending on condition prior to reprint. I know I recall a couple stores buy prices being in the 40 to 50 dollar range which makes me think my recollection of the original price is pretty accurate.

[i_set_fire]

Along the lines of price drop impacting the older card, does anyone know the price of Berserk before the reprinted it?  The SCG price for a mint Alpha/Beta Berserk is at $99.  I could be wrong, but I remember it being something like $140 or so (I have an Alphia Berserk so I checked periodically).   A mint Unlimited is listed on SCG as $50.  I don't recall what the pre-reprint price was.  I'd be curious to know what the price change was.  A mint FTV Berserk is listed at $30, $20 less than the unlimited one, despite the fact that the FTV card is BB and foiled.  I wonder if those prices would be closer if the picture on the FTV version didn't suck so bad... and the ABU version wasn't so bad ass.

im pretty sure on ebay unlimiteds were going for 50$ mint and a/b were around 100$.  now its about 30 and 60 respectively. 

[M.Solymossy]

The problem is Berserk stopped seeing play in competitive decks in 2008.

[reaperbong]

some great stuff in this thread, thanks for contributing.

I went ahead and bought some German Volcanics instead of a Seal, seems like a better investment. I just can't get over how pricey the English Imperial Seal is, that card is peaking at like $300 on ebay, that's damn near the price of a beta Timetwister or Time Vault, or UL Mox. naw, that's unacceptable to me, here's hoping for a reprint as I have to agree it seems likely, especially since it's strictly worse than Vampiric which already saw a reprint in a basic set..

..which leads me to ask, has there ever been a card from one of these Portal sets reprinted? If not then I wonder why.

[Chill79]

..which leads me to ask, has there ever been a card from one of these Portal sets reprinted? If not then I wonder why.

in 8th there was atleast couple of Balance of Power,Vampiric Spirit... 

[reaperbong]

Excellent, so there is precedence.

[BurningIce]

I'm hoping they reprint it one day.  I hate white border cards.  I made it a goal to collect one of every card (by name, not by printing), which then became a goal to collect an alpha/beta combined set.  (I'm currently missing Time Vault... and Wild Growth ).  All this to say that when I make my decks, I'm proud that few if any white border cards get in.  The fact that they're so other option for Imperial Seal is very irritating.

EDIT: vassago is sending me a Wild Growth... so I only need a Time Vault now. 

[reaperbong]

I can deal with white border, I actually prefer it with a few cards like Time Walk. it's the higher price for English that bothers me, I don't own a single Asian card and don't plan to start now.

[forests failed you]

I think that it is very likely Imperial Seal could be reprinted in a core set at some point.  The power level of the card would be reasonable in Standard, and although there is the potential for it to be overpowered in Extended--the possibility of banning it is always available if necessary.  Seal would sell a TON of packs of core set.  Keep in mind that Wizards has really been pushing the power level of chase rares:  The stats on Baneslayer Angel and Jace, the Mindsculpter would have seemed impossible three years ago! 

[Tha Gunslinga]

Excellent, so there is precedence.

Yes, for reprinting crap rares.  P3K rares have never been reprinted, much less $200 rares, and I see no likelihood of Wizards starting now.

[2nd_lawl]

Why would wizards print one of the most powerful combo enablers of all time, that also happens to be a 200 dollar card, and unleash them on a format that is already dominated by combo decks(extended)?  It is pretty clear that Imperial seal is VERY far above the curve for what you get for B in a modern set.  Grim tutor is far more balanced for both standard and extended, and I even doubt they would reprint that.