Landfall Combo (This needs big time improvement)

[Blue Lotus]

Would Black Lotus be an example of "better acceleration?"  Would it in fact be the best acceleration?  If so would tutoring for Lotus make sense?  Would it still make sense if rather than Demonic Tutoring for Lotus you instead used Trinket Mage or Grim Tutor or Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal or even Enlightened Tutor?

You are confusing and mixing my two arguments.  Allow me to simplify.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card.  It is bad because it cannot achieve anything without using two cards.  Other top deck tutors have either access to cards that allow a quick recovery from the loss of card.  Sometimes, vamp for lotus is a way to recover from the lost card.  But vamp can get any card in your deck and vamp doesn't always have lotus as a best option.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card because it is white.  This may seem like a lazy argument, but you are most certainly not running mono white, and not running Wx.  So enlightened tutor is a double splash, destroying your mana base for, again, a card that doesn't do much.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card and therefor a combo that relies on it is bad.  Furthermore a deck based on this combo is also bad. 

[Cyberpunker]

Would Black Lotus be an example of "better acceleration?"  Would it in fact be the best acceleration?  If so would tutoring for Lotus make sense?  Would it still make sense if rather than Demonic Tutoring for Lotus you instead used Trinket Mage or Grim Tutor or Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal or even Enlightened Tutor?

You are confusing and mixing my two arguments.  Allow me to simplify.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card.  It is bad because it cannot achieve anything without using two cards.  Other top deck tutors have either access to cards that allow a quick recovery from the loss of card.  Sometimes, vamp for lotus is a way to recover from the lost card.  But vamp can get any card in your deck and vamp doesn't always have lotus as a best option.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card because it is white.  This may seem like a lazy argument, but you are most certainly not running mono white, and not running Wx.  So enlightened tutor is a double splash, destroying your mana base for, again, a card that doesn't do much.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card and therefor a combo that relies on it is bad.  Furthermore a deck based on this combo is also bad. 

Interesting take on White and Enlightened Tutor. You are right that Enlightened Tutor can be very bad at times becauase it cannot tutor for Ancestral Recall or game shifting broken card. But have you taken into account the fact that if you run multiples of it, you can consistently get your combo pieces very quickly early game?

I know a 3 card combo is weak but that is why there is the improvement forum 

[meadbert]

Would Black Lotus be an example of "better acceleration?"  Would it in fact be the best acceleration?  If so would tutoring for Lotus make sense?  Would it still make sense if rather than Demonic Tutoring for Lotus you instead used Trinket Mage or Grim Tutor or Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal or even Enlightened Tutor?

You are confusing and mixing my two arguments.  Allow me to simplify.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card.  It is bad because it cannot achieve anything without using two cards.  Other top deck tutors have either access to cards that allow a quick recovery from the loss of card.  Sometimes, vamp for lotus is a way to recover from the lost card.  But vamp can get any card in your deck and vamp doesn't always have lotus as a best option.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card because it is white.  This may seem like a lazy argument, but you are most certainly not running mono white, and not running Wx.  So enlightened tutor is a double splash, destroying your mana base for, again, a card that doesn't do much.  Enlightened tutor is a bad card and therefor a combo that relies on it is bad.  Furthermore a deck based on this combo is also bad. 

So I have been giving you a harder time than you deserve.  You make some good points.  I have noticed ever since Spell Pierce was printed that top deck tutors are worse in general.  Basically you do not want to invest two cards to have your opponent counter it for 1 mana and 1 card.  So I agree with that.
No deck yet proposed in this thread is good, so I cannot fault you there.  Since we have yet to discover a deck abusing this combo that is good, it stands to reason that the combo itself is not good, so I agree that you are probably correct there.

I am unconcerned about the mana base.  I have been running anywhere from 8-16 white cards which is hardly splash.  Decks run far fewer cards for black all the time.

I do think you underestimate Enlightened Tutor as a card.

[Lurker101]

With lots of land bouncing and possible land recursion if you include crucible could foil be used as a free counterspell since you're having trouble with the blue card count for force? I realize foil is no great shakes as a card but it could possibly be used here, especially with Trade Routes and Oboro, and you need some kind of disruption.

[meadbert]

Foil is actually an interesting card since you are potentially discard two lands.  I will have to test this!

[median]

just along the lines of a crab crucible style list, I've been playing around with nantuko cultivator and it can be kind of fun with nostalgic dreams, -it feels a lot like the tropical storm. you basically have 4 one use crucibles with the dreams + crucibles, the cultivators draw about 4-5 cards. the key is using only the lands you need and regurgitating the rest into your hand with dreams. fetches help maintain the amount of mana you need, the main problem is getting cultivators, 4 isn't really enough.

[meadbert]

Foil is not quite working out.  Basically with Crucible I want to run a lot of fetches so I frequently do not have the Island in my hand.  I either need Trade Routes out or I want Gush.

Another way to trigger infinite landfall is with 2xExploration and Cloudstone Curio.

You can repeatedly play one exploration bouncing the other and then play a green producing land and bounce another (so you do need two green producing lands)

Getting 2xExploration does not seem likely.
If only Cloudstone Curio did not say "other".

Are there any other relavent combos with Cloudstone Curio?  I know you can generate infinite storm with Kobolds, but I do not see how that fits in such a deck.

EDIT:  Okay so it turns out the Curio, Exploration and Wild Growth is also an infinte Landfall Combo.

EDIT #2:  I think Nature's Chosen, Exploration and Steppe Lynx also have an infinite combo with Cloudstone Curio.  Basically Chosen on Lynx, untap land.  Tap land for mana.  Play Exploration bouncing Chosen.  Play land bouncing land.  Start over.

EDIT #3:  Utopia Sprawl functions as a better Wild Growth.  Also 2xEternal Witness gives infinite turns if Walk is in the yard since you play one Witness getting back Walk and bouncing the other witness.  Then play Walk.  Repeat.

EDIT #4:
Here is my current version of the Hedron Crab version.  Lotus probably belongs.  This is more of a rough sketch.

Mana Base:
6 Fetch
4 Trops
2 Forest

Acceleration:
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Fastbond
4 Exploration

Disruption:
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Null Rod
4 Crucible Of Worlds

Win Conditions:
3 Hedron Crab
3 Eternal Witness

Draw Tutor:
4 Horn of Greed
4 Cloudstone Curio
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Intuition

[TopSecret]

As long as we're mentioning infinite landfall combos that require 3 + cards,
Tideforce Elemental + Sakura Tribe Scout + Oboro + Lotus Cobra = Infinite land drops.

[median]

If you're playing witness and wild growths would a singleton snap be worthwhile for infinite mana/storm/alt win, -also could be fun with curio. Along those lines would high tide be better than growth effects?

[madmanmike25]

3 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Fastbond
4 Exploration

Since you are already running those, have you thought about the possiblity of using Argothian Enchantress as a draw engine?  Horn of Greed seems really situational in that you wouldnt cast it before you assemble a combo because giving your opponents extra cards is b-a-d.

Since Curio can bounce lands, have you thought about getting Tolarian Academy?  If Enchantress pans out, maybe even Serras Sanctum could work.

Since you are running Shops, why not use Crop rotation since it would count as "acceleration".   Also having 5 Strip Mines in a deck is pretty good in decks that run Crucible I hear.  Crop seems like an auto include. 

I like the Eternal Witness factor as a means of protection too.

[zimagic]

EDIT:  Okay so it turns out the Curio, Exploration and Wild Growth is also an infinte Landfall Combo.

Goes without saying that Fastbond + Curio is also finite enough for you to kill your opponent, infinite with Glacial Chasm.

[Cyberpunker]

Wouldn't Curio + Exploration be enough? Play Exploration bounce land, play land, bounce exploration, play exploration and bounce land?? Or does Exploration only work once?

[Troy_Costisick]

Wouldn't Curio + Exploration be enough? Play Exploration bounce land, play land, bounce exploration, play exploration and bounce land?? Or does Exploration only work once?

It would work if your land happens to be an enchantment too

[Portalis]

would  Augury Adept or Thada Adel, Acquisitor be good choices over say Cold-Eye? i know the island walk is what makes him better.

also wouldn't Adventuring Gear make any one of your creatures a pump dude and the landfall combo will work too.

[median]

By the way, recurring tutors/draw with witness(via curio) you can get your entire deck and cast it to beat down for the win. Replaying wild growth also generates infinite mana to play it with. This is not a landfall win.

[wiley]

Kabira Crossroads, wasteland, crucible and fastbond is also inf landfall.  Something to play with since you have the new land gifts and all parts are on color or good on their own.

You might also look into using root maze with a 1 of amulet of vigor to tutor for as a possible back breaker.  May not be competitive, but def looks like fun.  A first go at it from me looks like this:

 Lands
1 Kabira Crossroads
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Riftstone Portal
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Bazaar of Baghdad

 Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Dark Confidant
2 Knight of the Reliquary

 Spells
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
1 Nostalgic Dreams
2 Duress
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Thoughtseize
1 Amulet of Vigor
1 Life from the Loam
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Root Maze
1 Fastbond
2 Argivian Find
1 Regrowth
2 Realms Uncharted

I'm obv. not happy with the build, as I would like a better way to control the gifts, as well as a way to make it generally faster, but it has a decent amount of power and multiple win from nowhere scenarios.