[Deck] Not Quite Madness U/G(X)

[LivingFlame]

Hello everyone, I'm an Italian MtG player (so my English is not so perfect as yours =P) and I was looking for a forum like this in order to discuss about Vintage format, approached by myself about 5/6 moths ago.
I don't actually play in tournaments, so at the moment I'm not "updated" about the format and I play essentially for fun (but also trying to keep decks competitive or something like that).

Now that I've finished to introduce myself, I want to focus your (and mine, too  ) attention to this deck that I built recently.
I know that the list is not so perfect, but I think that it can say something on the current format. This deck is splashed with in order to obtain tutors and creature removal.

Lands & Mana Sources: 21
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Strip Mine
3 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures: 20
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Sage of Epityr
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Tarmogoyf

Draw & Tutors: 5
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Frantic Search
1 Brainstorm

Protections: 13
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
2 Echoing Truth
3 Smother

Others: 2
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Regrowth

So, we have a Madness.deck with some control elements. Now I'm going to explain each part of this deck:

- Lands & Mana Sources: 21
We have dual lands and 6 fetches in order to obtain soon the color(s) we need. This deck doesn't run Wasteland only because I can't find them at the moment, so we run only Strip Mine (and I'm thinking about cut it, because it's only 1). Chrome, Sol and Crypt are good in order to play faster our creatures/spells.

- Creatures: 20
There's an incredible sinergy among Basking Rootwalla, Sage of Epityr (8 drop cc1) and Ninja of the Deep Hours. Basking Rootwalla can be switched for Ninja and return on the battlefied discarded by Wild Mongrel, which meanwhile becomes strong and strong. Wonder is cutted because it's not so important in this format get the flying ability. Finally, we have Tarmogoyf just to finish sooner the opponent.

- Draw & Tutors: 5
Only limited cards here. We have 3 tutors in order to get the card we need; Frantic Search is quite good here and Brainstorm to complete draw/manipulation (Sage of Epityr is a good substitute).

- Protections: 13
I prefer run Chalice of the Void instead of Null Rod just because at turn 2 we: play Wild Mongrel and/or Tarmogoyf, use the Ninjutsu ability, play Smother, etc, so we need all possible mana and we can't spend it to play Null Rod.

- Others: 2
Y. Will simply let us to re-play cards in our graveyard, and Regrowth to recycle a single card (destroyed creatures, etc). However I'm not sure about playing them just because we're an Unspoilered deck (even if we run Mana Crypt, Sol Ring and Chrome Mox).

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So, I hope this deck will interest you and create an interesting discussion about it ^^

See you soon! ^^

[smasher]

It sounds like you play for fun but want a strong deck to play with using any magic cards ever printed. Is this correct?

You don't need null rod or chalice of the void to play a deck for fun. I don't anticipate your opponents to have decks loaded with lotus, mox, time vault, etc. If they are playing these cards then you will probably end up designing a deck much different than the one you have.

I would suggest continue playing the deck you have and make minor changes suited to the opponents you play against regularly or build it legacy style tempo threshold. Check out the Team America deck http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?11605-[Deck]-Team-America/page44

[LivingFlame]

Hi smasher; well, when I said that I'm playing for fun, I ment playing the deck not so seriously but waiting for test it in a regular MtG tournament: at the moment I have no time to test against people and partecipate in tournaments, so for now I often play this deck on MWS.
Thanks for yuor reply ^^ bye!

[RecklessEmbermage]

With very low mana requirements, I think getting that playset of wastes is the most important change you can make to this deck.

Daze is still solid in tempo-decks. I would play some combination of daze, spell pierce and stifle (expensive at the moment, I know) along with wastes and cut the chalices, frantic search and demonic tutor to make the deck more flexible and reactive. Too many of your cards need to be cast at sorcery speed.

Sol ring would be weak if you were to cut chalice. How about jitte? Is there a decent amount of small creatures in your metagame?

I don't know if this deck can support mystical tutor. The card disadvantage and one mana price seems a bit rough. You have good consistency in your draws anyway.

Yawgmoth's will simply does not belong in this deck. At it's very best, it can give you a land back and maybe a two-drop. More often than not though, you won't have time to play it.

Regrowth is similar. Again: your deck is consistent enough that you shouldn't need to sacrifice tempo to find a particular card in your graveyard or otherwise.

Neither of your one-drops are amazing. You should consider nimble mongoose, since you'll reach threshold fairly early. If you cut sages for mongeese, you go from 16 to 20 creatures that actually kill the opponent. You could even cut back to 2 mongrels and have a decent threat density.

4 ninjas isn't a lot of draw. I think accumulated knowledge should be solid here, along with more counterspells, as suggested above.

The black splash does not seem great. If you happen to own something like one savannah and one tundra, white gives you swords to plowshares and some very good one-drops:

Mother of runes: Good against aggro, good for making sure ninja connects.

Icatian javelineers: Kills lackeys, welders and confidants and can be reset with ninja. It's slow though.

Loam lion: Just a solid guy.

Heck, you could even play straight UG and replace smothers with some bounce. Repeal is good, as it feeds your dogs and can be used in any match-up (as opposed to smother). If your ninjas tend to get blocked, you could even consider shadow rift. It is nice for getting through a lethal mongrel too. If you are thinking about buying all of these cards (since you currently play on MWS), UG can be run on something like two tropical, 8-10 fetches, wastes and a few basics. You escape the hefty price tag on underground sea and those wastes will do more for your deck than the extra color.

Like smasher suggests, search around in legacy forums for threshold and merfolk decks and see what other folks are running.

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

deep analysis........seems good in this deck. The cards highlighted seem like the key cards in the deck for obvious reasons...bouncer vs oath bc its everywhere on the north east, claim vs stax mud tezz oath etc, and deep analysis is just  good in this deck end of story. I feel like this deck wants to run null rod but doesn't need to run it so i left that out for more tempo gainers and control

4 goyf
4 mongrel
3 waterfront bouncer
2 aquamoeba
4 basking rootwala
2 umezawa's jitte
4 daze
4 stifle
4 force of will
1 brainstorm
3 deep analysis
1 recall
1 mystical
1 scroll
2 natures claim
1 hurkyls recall

1 lotus
1 sapphire
1 emerald
1 ruby
4 tropical island
4 fetch
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
2 island

SB
2 natures claim
4 ravenous trap
3 tormods crypt
1 relic of prog
1 waterfront bouncer
4 spell pierce

[xouman]

I'm working on a core of Quiet Speculation + Ancient Grudge + Deep Analysis + Lava Dart, and mongrel/aquamoeba fit well. First tests haven't been encouraging, but I think there are lots of cards to try (threshold, madness, flashback...). The problem is that it seems more a Legacy deck than Vintage XD

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

yeah i just tested the deck today and made suttle changes...it acts too much like a legacy deck and doesn't have the broken cards that t1 offers....vamp, demonic, will, etc, and lacks the auto-win-condition


= I scrap this deck

[LivingFlame]

Hi there! I tried to make a UG list in order to cut and have a better manabase situation. I also cut Sage+Ninja draw engine, and the result was a more "classic" madness list.

// Lands and Mana Sources: 21

3 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
5 Island
3 Forest

Oboro is interesting: it enters the battlefield non-tapped, and can be bounced simply tapping it in order to discard it to an Aquamoeba/Wild Mongrel and boost them. Artifact - acceleration remain because I've added Deep Analysis.

// Creatures: 15

4 Wild Mongrel
3 Acquamoeba
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Tarmogoyf

Well, 7 discard outlet are enough (currently we're not playing any Circular Logic/Arrogant Wurm).

// Spells: 19
1 Brainstorm
1 Frantic Search
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Misdirection
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Echoing Truth
2 Deep Analysis
2 Nature's Claim/Oxidize/Naturalize/Krosan Grip
5 Missing slots

Some limited cards and good targets for Merchant Scroll (preferred over Mystical Tutor because it doen't suffer CotV@1 and it doesn't create card disadvantage, the card chosen is put directly in hand so we can instant Mis-D an Ancestral o Force a particular spell, for example). We have 5 empty slot and I don't know which cards are useful. Options:

1. Jitte-Sword of Fire/Ice? We have accel, but I'm not sure we can have all the time to play and, after, equip them.
2. Life from the Loam? It's good with Oboro and fetchlands, because we have an endless source of food for Mongrels/Aquamoeba.
3. Quite Speculation? If we agree with this solution, we should create a toolbox of spells with flashback (Ancient Grudge and Deep Analsys IMHO are the best ones, currently).