GWSx: Ritual combo after the printing of Lodestone Golem

[honestabe]

I'd strongly suggest imperial seal instead of grim tutor

[toor]

Ran the Following today at the bluebell game day:


// Lands
    4  Polluted Delta
    2  Island
    1  Scalding Tarn
    1  Bloodstained Mire
    3  Swamp
    2  Underground Sea
    1  Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    4  Dark Confidant

// Spells
    1 [JGC] Sol Ring
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Ruby
    3  Cabal Ritual
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Demonic Consultation
    1  Ponder
    1  Brainstorm
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    1  Mind's Desire
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Necropotence
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    3  Tendrils of Agony
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Rebuild
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mana Crypt
    1 [V09] Lotus Petal
    4  Dark Ritual
    1  Timetwister
    3  Hurkyl's Recall
    1  Chain of Vapor
    1  Duress
    4  Thoughtseize
    1 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Island
SB: 1  Swamp
SB: 1  Massacre
SB: 1  Darkblast
SB: 3  Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 [V09] Tinker
SB: 2  Sower of Temptation
SB: 1  Mystic Remora
SB: 1  Spell Pierce
SB: 2  Yixlid Jailer

Notes on Maindeck: Wanted to Beat Shops+Noble Fish. Secondary Concern was Tezz+TPS+Oath. Tested with Ad N and Tolarian (changes from first list). AdN was really bad for me. Lots of 4s in the deck, + already life loss from Thoughtseize and Bob meant Ad N was bad. I decided to run 3rd cabal because i liked just killing people the hard way (aka rituals + tendrils). The SB plan was really good against fish (and pretty much the only thing I tested). The idea being to have answers to meddling mage and overload their swords with must kill targets. LAst minute decision to run darkblast over slaughter pact/death mark cause people were desperately searching for cold eye selkies.

I had some interesting decisions which I want input on:
1.
Rnd 1, Game 1: Against unknown opponent do you keep on the play:
Ritual x 2, Desire, Yawg Will, Lotus Petal?

I did never drew land/mana source had ritual countered on turn 4.

2. Same opponent is playing the oath deck with Iona, Terrastodon, Darksteel. He has spell pierces no drains.
Do you keep:
2x Thoughtseize, 2x Fetch, Tolarian Academy, Mox Emerald, Mox Sapphire.

2b.
I did, and led with thoughtseize seeing:
Jet, TEzz, Vault, Merchant Scroll, Misty Rainforest, Sensei's Divining Top, Mana Crypt

What do you take?

I took the Sensei's divinging top. I know its not the conventional choice but I think it is correct. Basically I wanted to try and make vault a blank while I buy some time. Notice he is bottleknecked on blue mana.
The game played out very odd:
He casts just vault on turn 1, holding the crypt. I then thoughtseize (hes drawn forest) and take tezz (I could take merchant scroll here and pray he never draws blue, I don't know). He merchant scrolls for recall, still short on blue. I draw mystical, he shoots off recall slumping a bit. I tutor for sad sac, and resolve it taking yawg will, darksteel, voltaic key. Turns out he has drawn Terrastodon and Iona (I though he would side out terrastodon) and the next turn (turn 4 or 5) he hardcasts terrastodon only blowing up his mana crypt. I find chain for the terrastodon but hes drawn more moxes (4 at this point) and casts it immediately wiping out 3 of his things.

3.
Against Dredge on the draw in Game 3, I know he has chalices and he has seen my jailers. Do you keep?
Sea, Ancestral Recall, Tendrils, Dark Ritual, Ponder, 2x Fetch.

3b.
I did and he went turn 1 chalice + bazaar off a mull to 5. How do you play my turn 1?

I just cast ponder seeing confidant, ritual, academy. I draw ritual (mistake). But my logic on ponder was that I wanted to make sure that I didn't draw moxes, and taking the best card then shuffling would be the best way to set up turn 2 kill. Doesn't matter much has his first activation leaves him discarding GGT, GGT, Ichorid. Which then therapies me a bunch on turn 2. I play confidant and fetch (with an out being yawg will) but it doesn't matter and I die on turn 4.

1-2 end of day. Liked the deck, hate dredge.

[honestabe]

.

I had some interesting decisions which I want input on:
1.
Rnd 1, Game 1: Against unknown opponent do you keep on the play:
Ritual x 2, Desire, Yawg Will, Lotus Petal?

I did never drew land/mana source had ritual countered on turn 4.

Mulligan.  The hand is powerfull, but you have no plays.  If lotus petal was black lotus however, it's a whole other story

2. Same opponent is playing the oath deck with Iona, Terrastodon, Darksteel. He has spell pierces no drains.
Do you keep:
2x Thoughtseize, 2x Fetch, Tolarian Academy, Mox Emerald, Mox Sapphire.

Keep, the hand has potential if you rip something and the siezes will buy you time to do just that

2b.
I did, and led with thoughtseize seeing:
Jet, TEzz, Vault, Merchant Scroll, Misty Rainforest, Sensei's Divining Top, Mana Crypt

What do you take?

I took the Sensei's divinging top. I know its not the conventional choice but I think it is correct. Basically I wanted to try and make vault a blank while I buy some time. Notice he is bottleknecked on blue mana.
The game played out very odd:
He casts just vault on turn 1, holding the crypt. I then thoughtseize (hes drawn forest) and take tezz (I could take merchant scroll here and pray he never draws blue, I don't know). He merchant scrolls for recall, still short on blue. I draw mystical, he shoots off recall slumping a bit. I tutor for sad sac, and resolve it taking yawg will, darksteel, voltaic key. Turns out he has drawn Terrastodon and Iona (I though he would side out terrastodon) and the next turn (turn 4 or 5) he hardcasts terrastodon only blowing up his mana crypt. I find chain for the terrastodon but hes drawn more moxes (4 at this point) and casts it immediately wiping out 3 of his things.

First I'd take top, to entice him to Scroll for Ancestral and pass, then thoughtsieze the recall.  However, he didn't take that route for some reason.  The second duress is trickier and depends on what you have in hand.  Since you're hand wasn't winning anytime soon, Tezz was probably right, but if your hand was saucier, Merchant scroll is probably correct

3.
Against Dredge on the draw in Game 3, I know he has chalices and he has seen my jailers. Do you keep?
Sea, Ancestral Recall, Tendrils, Dark Ritual, Ponder, 2x Fetch.

Keep this beauty all day.  Between your draw steps, recall and ponder, you will see 8 cards in the next 2 turns.  You will definitly see either hate, or a way to win before they do with all those cards

3b.
I did and he went turn 1 chalice + bazaar off a mull to 5. How do you play my turn 1?

I just cast ponder seeing confidant, ritual, academy. I draw ritual (mistake). But my logic on ponder was that I wanted to make sure that I didn't draw moxes, and taking the best card then shuffling would be the best way to set up turn 2 kill. Doesn't matter much has his first activation leaves him discarding GGT, GGT, Ichorid. Which then therapies me a bunch on turn 2. I play confidant and fetch (with an out being yawg will) but it doesn't matter and I die on turn 4.

1-2 end of day. Liked the deck, hate dredge.

Here, I'd of played a land and ancestraled at his EOT, or in resp to some discard spell, if need be.  You will see more cards if you ancestral first

[personalbackfire]

2. Same opponent is playing the oath deck with Iona, Terrastodon, Darksteel. He has spell pierces no drains.
Do you keep:
2x Thoughtseize, 2x Fetch, Tolarian Academy, Mox Emerald, Mox Sapphire.

Keep, the hand has potential if you rip something and the siezes will buy you time to do just that

I am pretty sure keeping this hand is wrong. You pretty much have no plays to follow up on your thoughtseizing and have to rely on the top of your deck giving you the win. You do have some fast mana, but no rits for fast black. If you are a master at top decking this could be a good strategy but it seems like this deck could mull and do much better. Thoughtseize is good but with no other play it gets worse. Being as your on 7 and should have a favorable match, Id assume you would just mull into a better hand.

[Duncan]

2. Same opponent is playing the oath deck with Iona, Terrastodon, Darksteel. He has spell pierces no drains.
Do you keep:
2x Thoughtseize, 2x Fetch, Tolarian Academy, Mox Emerald, Mox Sapphire.

Keep, the hand has potential if you rip something and the siezes will buy you time to do just that

I am pretty sure keeping this hand is wrong. You pretty much have no plays to follow up on your thoughtseizing and have to rely on the top of your deck giving you the win. You do have some fast mana, but no rits for fast black. If you are a master at top decking this could be a good strategy but it seems like this deck could mull and do much better. Thoughtseize is good but with no other play it gets worse. Being as your on 7 and should have a favorable match, Id assume you would just mull into a better hand.

This is about the perfect example of what I mentioned earlier in this thread:

It mulligans really well and I think aggressive mulligans can be great with this deck.

I like to highlight this. With this deck I mulligan more aggresive than with almost any deck I have played. I always ship back hands that do not have a plan. Your 6 or 5 can be real good and often better than a weak 7.

Basically you have a high chance to lose if either your opponent has a decent hand that can handle a first turn thoughtseize and also if your first card drawn is a land/tendrils/ritual/bounce. Even if you draw a confidant, he might drop an oath and you lose. Yawgmoth's will won't do you any good, cause you don't have a yard yet.

Your six cards will almost certainly be better than this, so I would definately mulligan.

[islanderboi10]

I'd strongly suggest imperial seal instead of grim tutor

I know that Seal is probable better, but I don't own a seal. I own a Grim Tutor, though.

I have found Noble Fish being hard to beat preboard. It is easier post board, but it is still kind of rough for me.
Any suggestions?

[honestabe]

2. Same opponent is playing the oath deck with Iona, Terrastodon, Darksteel. He has spell pierces no drains.
Do you keep:
2x Thoughtseize, 2x Fetch, Tolarian Academy, Mox Emerald, Mox Sapphire.

Keep, the hand has potential if you rip something and the siezes will buy you time to do just that

I am pretty sure keeping this hand is wrong. You pretty much have no plays to follow up on your thoughtseizing and have to rely on the top of your deck giving you the win. You do have some fast mana, but no rits for fast black. If you are a master at top decking this could be a good strategy but it seems like this deck could mull and do much better. Thoughtseize is good but with no other play it gets worse. Being as your on 7 and should have a favorable match, Id assume you would just mull into a better hand.

This is about the perfect example of what I mentioned earlier in this thread:

It mulligans really well and I think aggressive mulligans can be great with this deck.

I like to highlight this. With this deck I mulligan more aggresive than with almost any deck I have played. I always ship back hands that do not have a plan. Your 6 or 5 can be real good and often better than a weak 7.

Basically you have a high chance to lose if either your opponent has a decent hand that can handle a first turn thoughtseize and also if your first card drawn is a land/tendrils/ritual/bounce. Even if you draw a confidant, he might drop an oath and you lose. Yawgmoth's will won't do you any good, cause you don't have a yard yet.

Your six cards will almost certainly be better than this, so I would definately mulligan.

I would auto-mull this against any deck except Oath, but I agree that it is weak,  and a mulligan might be the right call

[hitman]

I started testing this deck recently since I have a strong affinity for storm decks.  This deck is really ridiculous.  For instance, I played ~35 games last night against Workshops and Noble Fish and lost 5 games.  Everything my opponents play seem totally irrelevant.  Against Workshops, I won through three Sphere effects, including Lodestone Golem and Noble Fish never seemed to be playing anything worth stopping.  I wanted to make the most savage Workshop deck for me to beat so I made a 12 Sphere 12 huge artifact creature deck to play against and wasn't even phased with this deck.  For reference, this storm deck beat the snot out of this Workshop deck:

4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Juggernaut
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Duplicant
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
6 Island
5 Moxes
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Some card I can't remember

The three mass bounce effects are amazing.  Obviously, they helped me combo out often but also just wrecked any problems I was running into.  Fish has like four relevant spells against you and you have Duress effects for them.  Null Rod, Spell Pierce, Daze and Meddling Mage largely do nothing against this deck.  Fourteen lands is absolutely amazing.  All you do is drop lands and let your opponent goof around playing spells that don't matter and just go off. 

After skimming this thread a little, I knew three Hurkyl's Recall was too much in my opinion.  I cut a Hurkyl's Recall for a Duress.  I don't like a lot of Thoughtseizes when playing Confidant so I opted for 4 Duress and 2 Thoughtseize because I want to reliably see a Duress effect when going off.  Even though Necropotence is my favorite card ever printed, I think it's the worst card in this deck.  The only close games in those ~35 were games where I had Necropotence in play with no Confidants.  It seems like the vast majority of situations I run into with this deck dictate that I should just slowroll the Necros and just fill my hand back up and let Confidant do damage and get me extra cards. 

[smasher]

I wanted to make the most savage Workshop deck for me to beat so I made a 12 Sphere 12 huge artifact creature deck to play against and wasn't even phased with this deck.  For reference, this storm deck beat the snot out of this Workshop deck:

4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Juggernaut
4 Master of Etherium
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Duplicant
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
6 Island
5 Moxes
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Some card I can't remember

All you do is drop lands and let your opponent goof around playing spells that don't matter and just go off. 

When your workshop deck is lacking key lock pieces such as tangle wire, smokestack, chalice, or null rod then yeah I have to agree. I haven't tested your aggro shop list but it seems slopped together and fairly weak against combo. I don't think any results against this deck can really count for much considering it doesn't really resemble any of the shop decks placing well lately.

To everyone else: Are you play testing against workshop decks and consistently beating them 50% or better or are your results just a handful of games in tournament play? I am asking this because play testing against workshop decks on several different nights the tally is approximately 40 wins for workshop, 5 wins for storm. None of these are sideboard games to be fair. With that said the sideboard of either deck is probably only swapping out 1 or 2 cards which will alter the results slightly but not drastically improve storm's chance.

If you want to see the decks tested ask and I'll post them I'm just short on time right now to do so. I can tell you the storm deck is within a card or 2 variation of what has been posted in this thread. The shop deck runs lodestone, sphere, thorn, chalice, tangle wire, smokestack, sculpting steel, trisk, karn.

[MEATROCKET]

I'm gonna agree with smasher for now.  I've used the same list as the OP against a Shops deck with a million lock pieces + Sculpting Steel + Smokestack.  I've found that Duress and even Thoughtseize don't do enough against that deck - you can hit a good piece in their hand, but with that kind of lock piece-density it doesn't matter much.  [As an aside, it seems like people in the Shops thread haven't been playing with Smokestack+Scultping in a not-so-aggressive Shop deck.  Well, they should  ]

What really makes things difficult is damn Lodestone Golem.  I know that this thread is basically about this card, but I haven't felt that these changes to GWSx have helped as much as they need to.  Without the Golem it's possible to slowroll the EOT Hurks/Rebuild as you build a mana base, but the Golem says "You have this many turns to get your bounce spell" while they find more lock pieces.  If a Smokestack hits at that point it's just game over.  Many many times I have felt like even Hurkyl's cost too much mana!  Throw Chalice in there and....ugh.  Pro play of the day was play Chalice at 1, copy with Sculpting Steel 

I think the only games I have won were when Golem never hit, or if I drew exceptionally well.  If I played against something like the list hitman posted I'm sure I'd have much more success.  I'm not going to completely give up with this list, as I've had success with GWSx in the past, and I love rolling over Tez and some fish decks.

[Duncan]

To everyone else: Are you play testing against workshop decks and consistently beating them 50% or better or are your results just a handful of games in tournament play? I am asking this because play testing against workshop decks on several different nights the tally is approximately 40 wins for workshop, 5 wins for storm. None of these are sideboard games to be fair. With that said the sideboard of either deck is probably only swapping out 1 or 2 cards which will alter the results slightly but not drastically improve storm's chance.

I'm gonna agree with smasher for now.  I've used the same list as the OP against a Shops deck with a million lock pieces + Sculpting Steel + Smokestack. 

After testing for several nights against the list of Guus (Mantis), a good shop player, (http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1245 deck #8) I came to the list in the opening post. In testing the matchup was ~50%, both pre-board and postboard, and that's with both of us knowing what was exactly in the other one's deck. In the tournament I think I have the advantage because my list differs more from a regular Storm build than my opponent's does from a regular shop deck. Which would explain the >50% match win there.

Guus' list does not run Crucible/Smokestack, but little decks in our meta do. While dropping either a crucible or smokestack can spell doom, it usually gives you one turn because they did not drop a lock piece.

I've found that Duress and even Thoughtseize don't do enough against that deck - you can hit a good piece in their hand, but with that kind of lock piece-density it doesn't matter much.

They do have more lock-pieces, but if you can grab a Golem with Thoughtseize it buys you a lot of time to build up your manabase just like in the old days. Note that I board out duress in the matchup, since it's not that good (which is why we've come to the conclusion to try a 1/4 Duress/Seize ratio in this thread).

Without the Golem it's possible to slowroll the EOT Hurks/Rebuild as you build a mana base, but the Golem says "You have this many turns to get your bounce spell" while they find more lock pieces.

This is the same assessment I made in the opening post and the reason why I overloaded on maindeck bounce, because you do not have the time to tutor for it anymore.

I do not mean to sound arrogant, but I think that if you only win 5 out of 45 games, you might be playing the deck wrong. You should be able to win at least 50% of you games on the play. You've got some turn1 kills, most games with turn 1 confidant (which is about 35% of you hands) and hands with mana and multiple bounce that will buy you enough times to win.

[islanderboi10]

After some testing, this deck is a house against shops.  Only losing 3 of the 10 games we actually played.  The deck can pull itself out of some really awkward positions.

Has anyone else have any new suggestions from Rise of Eldrazi?  What about any results?

[M.Solymossy]

After some testing, this deck is a house against shops.  Only losing 3 of the 10 games we actually played.  The deck can pull itself out of some really awkward positions.

Has anyone else have any new suggestions from Rise of Eldrazi?  What about any results?

I wasn't impressed with any of the cards from Rise.     


side note:  I'm playing this again, so I'll continue to communicate with Duncan on it's direction.

[swawagon]

Bob Tendril's seems a strong deck against TEZ and not too bad against Shops, but tweaking it (even with a devoted SB) to beat Oath has been a trick I cannot figure out.

Is not being able to beat Oath the reason this otherwise powerful deck has been sidelined?

Is Spell Snare in the SB for Oath reasonable?
I'd hate to add green just for reactive Nature's Claims just to 'try' to fight Oath.
3x Sadistic Sacrament doesn't seem to do near enough.

Anybody have any Oath fighting strategies for Bob Tendrils?

[Killane]

Bob Tendril's seems a strong deck against TEZ and not too bad against Shops, but tweaking it (even with a devoted SB) to beat Oath has been a trick I cannot figure out.

Is not being able to beat Oath the reason this otherwise powerful deck has been sidelined?

Is Spell Snare in the SB for Oath reasonable?
I'd hate to add green just for reactive Nature's Claims just to 'try' to fight Oath.
3x Sadistic Sacrament doesn't seem to do near enough.

Anybody have any Oath fighting strategies for Bob Tendrils?

Board out the Bob's and bring in engines that aren't maindeck, turning it into more of a TPS build post-board. Desire should be your main plan vs Oath since it nullifies their countermagic. Unfortuantely, without FoW there's really not much you can do vs first turn Oath-Orchard- especially if hey get Iona. The deck is stupidly powerful now and not really a great matchup for anythign other than Dredge. that said, Tendrils decks have the best shot IMHO, and asogn as you don;t run out Bobs when the opponent doesn't have Orchards, you should be able to combo them out before they can kill you.

[failtofind]

just beat oath by outplaying them, and because the cards in your deck are better than the cards in their deck.
i don't run bob, tried it once but hated it because he is not fun to get with bargain or desire.
the fact of the matter is that to win with this deck, you have to play 100% tight all the time, their is no margin for error.
adding cards that water down the deck but hate on other decks mainboard just isn't an option. You are playing the deck with the highest concentration of broken cards in the format, why add less broken ones?

just my thoughts

[M.Solymossy]

You race them quite easily.

[M.Solymossy]

1 Ad Naseum
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendril's of Agony
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Rebuild
1 Hurky's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Duress
4 Confidant
4 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timewtister
9 Artifacts (no vault)
1 Trop
1 Bayou
3 Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
5 Fetch

[Killane]

1 Ad Naseum
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendril's of Agony
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Rebuild
1 Hurky's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Duress
4 Confidant
4 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timewtister
9 Artifacts (no vault)
1 Trop
1 Bayou
3 Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
5 Fetch

why key-vault? I've always hate key-vault in storm decks. Both pieces are so disynergistc with everything else you are doing and you have enough of an oops I win factor aleady why junk it up with something everyone is gunning for anyways? wouldn't you rather have the 3rd Tendrils and the 5th Duress for consistancy?

What are you boarding in that needs the Green duals? Have you found the Trygon plans that some folks have been running to be of benefit, or it is just Nature's claim and pehaps old faithful- Xantid swarm?

Don't get me wrong it's the first list I've seen with 4 Preordain that I actually like, and it offers allot of strengths in the current Meta I think, I'm just curious about the whole deck, which I can't see without the sideboard, and the whole Key-Vault thing.

Given that this maindeck looks awesome enough vs shops to not need 8000000000 slots in the board, what do you think of a sideboard that drops bobs/desire for Ad Nauseums and turns the deck into ANT vs Oath and Dredge so you can race them much more easilly? (obv with + dredge hate)?

[M.Solymossy]

My tentative board for testing is:

2 Trygon Predator
2 Natures Claim
4 Tarmogufus
4 Yixlid Jailer
3 Pithing Nedizzle

[swawagon]

So your Oath SB plan with that may be:
-4 Dark Confidant
+2 Nature's Claim (Oath, Time Vault)
+2 Pithing Needle (naming Time Vault or Misty) (or "Ichorid" hehehe mmmm)

[Stormanimagus]

1 Ad Naseum
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendril's of Agony
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Rebuild
1 Hurky's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Duress
4 Confidant
4 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timewtister
9 Artifacts (no vault)
1 Trop
1 Bayou
3 Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
5 Fetch

Honestly, I'd just run ANT MD and then transform more into what you have there post-SB. I'd rather steal game 1's with blazing speed against an unprepared opponent and THEN transform to the control role than the other way around. I also think that, if you try it as an ANT strategy, Phylactery Lich deserves consideration over Goyf out of the SB. A 4/5 Goyf only TRADES with Golems while a 5/5 Lich will kill Golems and live to tell about it. Just sayin'.

-Storm

[M.Solymossy]

Lich is another card that's tentative for testing.   Right now, Goyf gets the nod.


I wouldn't board out my Confidants against Oath anymore.  I'd just board in claims.  You play a confidant, claim their first oath, and then grind through it.  I tested this match about a month ago with Rich Shay on MWS, and it wasn't too bad for the bob tendrils player.

[swawagon]

I'd lean toward 2 Jace Mindsculpter over a Key and a Vault... With a Jace down you're drawing or bouncing dangerous/disruptive creatures, with just a Key or a Vault down - nothing. I know the potential for brokenness with Key/Vault, I just don't see it here.

[M.Solymossy]

Further testing shows you can't beat mud efficiently enough.  Lodestone Golem is so fucking unfair. Fuck wizards.  That is all.

[Rico Suave]

Play Force of Will.  The card is some good against a variety of things, and Golem happens to be one of them.

[M.Solymossy]

Play Force of Will.  The card is some good against a variety of things, and Golem happens to be ALLof them.