If I were to play Lodestone Golem

[meadbert]

1 Tolarian Academy
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
4 Serum Powder
1 Sol Ring
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Sculpting Steel
1 Trinisphere
4 Sphere Of Resistance
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
4 Expedition Map
2 Karn,Silver Golem
4 Lodestone Golem
sideboard
4 Null Brooch
3 Pithing Needle
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Leyline Of The Void

This is pretty rough.  It has been tested some, but not a ton hence the improvement forum where it belongs.
This is not meant as a rebuttal or criticism of any other Golem list out there.  Other folks running Golems have no doubt tested more than me.
Instead this is mostly an example of where my intuition takes me.  This has been tested some and in my limited testing it has done well.

Lodestone Golem has made the Sphere of Resistance plan stronger.  Because Golem is himself an aggro creature, he is in less need of other creatures to back him up with a clock.  He does not need Juggernaught.  Instead he wants more and more lock components.  He has synergy with Thorn since neither effects the other.  Resistor fits the mana denial theme.  Note that Trinisphere is actually terrible at times because frequently it does nothing with Spheres already out.  Still it is worth it for the random turn 1 "wins."

The drawback of running full sets of Resistors and Thorns is you run a heightened risk of locking yourself out of mana.  This is especially true if you do not have Shop or if your Shop was removed.  There is a false notion that exists among many non shop players that Sphere of Resistance fixes hands without Workshop in them.  Basically the idea is that without Shop you might only have a land and a Mox on turn 1 and for that you want Resistor so you have a relevant turn 1 play.  This does not work.  Although you get your relevant turn 1 play, you are now stuck with the same number of mana sources in play as your opponent and you have to play out from under your own Spheres with a deck that is more vulnerable to Wasteland, just as vulnerable to Null Rod and with higher casting cost spells than Drain decks.  This is no easy task.  Essentially Turn 1 Mox, Land, Resistor is awesome for delaying the turn 2 loss till turn 4, but unlikely to actually win you the game unless you are holding or soon top deck a Workshop.  Turn 1 Resistor with not Shop is what I call a "lose less" card.  You still lose, but you feel like the game was closer.

I propose the following Shell as the best compliment to the 13 Sphere plan.  (Serum Powder + Crucible + Expedition Map)
Powder allows you to mulligan into Shop thus you should start out with it.
Crucible protects Shop so you can get it back if it is Wasted.
Expedition Map can find a new Shop.  Note that Map can be better than Crucible if Shop is Wasted since if you did resolve a Thorn/Resistor you only have to pay for a 1cc spell rather than a 2cc spell.  Shop players generally wish that Map cost 3 with a 0cc activation cost, but with Thorns and Resistors out the 1cc cost and 2cc activation cost is actually easier to achieve.  This is especially true with Serum Powders available to pay for the activation cost.
Crucible and Map combo to get a Strip Lock which is huge with the Resistors.
Serum Powder can be hardcast to help pay for spells through your Resistors.  Turn 1 Mox, Shop, Powder, Thorn/Resistor is a very strong play since you are still able to play any card in your deck the following turn while your opponent is slowed.  Note that "any card" includes both playing and activating Map to get Strip Mine!

There is one HUGE downside to running the Powder + Map shell and that is it makes Null Rod terrible enough that you should not run it.  This is a drawback for sure, but I think it is worth it given how powerful and one sided Expedition Map is.

Dredge is still unfavorable pre-board but you have 5 Wastes and 4 Maps to tutor up Waste to give you a shot preboard.
The real plan is post board where you Powder Mulligan to Leyline and then lock them out of Removal.  Needle is also powerful.

Against Oath you have Chalice@2 and Null Brooch in the board.

Needle is needed against Welders and great against Dredge but I am not sure where to bring it in against Vault or not.  It is easily played out from under Spheres which is nice and can name Vault or Top functioning as a bad Null Rod, but I have not been overwhelmed with it in those matchups.

Chalice comes in against Rituals which were already favorable.

There might be a bit less mana than needed in the main.  I could see another mana source which would be Petrified Field to recur Shop or Strip Mine.
A token Tabernacle in the board could be decent against Dredge, but I have not found I needed it.

The Karn Silver Golem count could probably be increased to 3 in most matchups.  My original intuition was that 3 was too many because of Welders, but this deck lacks Bazaar so you are less likely to have one in the yard.  Speaking of Bazaar:  A token Bazaar just cannot be that bad with the Maps.

Sculpting Steel is usually amazing, but randomly sucks and having 2 in opening hand without a decent lock to copy is the suck.  For that reason dropping to three might be correct.  I doubt I would drop to two.

A Powder Keg or two to remove Moxen or crucially Welder could be good.  This could work in the maindeck or sideboard.  Keg also remove Orchard Tokens after you Waste an Orchard to hose Oath.  Keg does a lot so I could see adding 1-2 to the main deck and even some in place of Needle in the side board.

The main reason I did not include Keg is that I used to use it as Smokestacks 5-9 against Fish to wipe most of their board, but with 8 Resistors and Thorns Keg gets much worse when set at 2.  The boarding strategy against Fish calls for pulling out Thorns first and then usually some Sculpting Steels.  Chalice comes in, ideally set to two.  Keg is shut off by your own Chalice which is not good and then removes your own Resistors when set to two which is not good.  Noble Fish is a slightly problematic matchup so I could see swapping out the Needles for Kegs.  Then I would board out the Thorns and some Resistors/Sculpting Steels and board in the Kegs + Chalice to hit 2.

[Therubecube]

I really like the Sculpting Steel's.  How have the Expedition Maps been for you?  I tried them, but they were a little awkward for me, especially because I love Chalice 1.

[Duncan]

What is your reasoning behind not including Tangle Wire?

[Evenpence]

IMO, Lodestone Golem is best in a Stax shell.  I totally agree with Meadbert here.

Stax can use the help of a quick clock, and his lockdown component is great.  Right now I'm experimenting with him in a mono-red stax shell, he's working out fantastic.

I ran Juggernauts to keep the pressure up on Gifts in Richmond several years ago (which was a much faster deck than a ton of the decks we have in the format right now).  This guy does everything better than Juggernaut and there's no real reason to run Juggernaut over another mana denial card like Thorn or Sphere.

I'm also maindecking Null Rods and some other interesting cards.  I think Chalice of the Void is better served as Null Rod in this list.  It creates mana denial far better than Chalice @ 0.

Chalice will also lock out some of your pieces regardless of what you're running.  Chalice @ 0 makes it so extra moxes can't be sacced to a ramped Smokey symmetrically.  Clearly this is anti-synergy with Smokestack because your opponent will also have 'dead' moxes out with an active Null Rod -- but, if you are on the draw you will want to play Chalice at a different number anyway (unless your opponent doesn't drop moxes).  So a quarter to half the time, Chalice @ 0 doesn't have any effect on the boardstate.

It also dies to opposing Mox Monkey and Karn (if no Null Rod is present).

4 Sculpting Steel is a little much, you don't want to fan open a hand of Sculpting Steel x2 + one lock component.  Sculpting Steel is infinitely better at the mid or late game, meaning you want ~2 copies.  Three and a singleton is fine as well, right now I'm running a singleton.

I think Karn is right at 2 copies, you can theoretically sac him to Smokestack and then replay another one, but if you have Karn out in this deck you're probably winning.

Serum Powder is interesting but not amazing for this deck as you can't weld it out for more useful pieces.  I get that it's useful for activating Karn and Expedition Map + the mulliganing thing is very nice.  This deck probably mulligans very well to begin with, so it's probably more of a plus than I'm giving it.

Expedition Map is certainly an interesting choice.  If you're not running Null Rod it's cool because it gets Strip Mine for recursion, but you need a better way to lock down enemy artifact mana than Chalice @ 0.

While I'm sure chalice @ 0 into crucible into expedition map for Strip Mine is insane, it requires 3 cards.

Dropping Expedition Map and Serum Powder will greatly increase your threat-card density by adding in cards like Tangle Wire and Null Rod.

Null Brooch is also incredibly strong in the maindeck if you don't want to go with the Null Rod route.  It isn't affected by spheres and provides you an easy out to Hurkyll's Recall and other such effects.

However, I find Null Rod to have just absolutely incredible synergy with Sphere effects and would advocate changing around the deck a good bit to abuse them.  If you'd prefer to keep this thread more on-topic I totally understand.

If you're dead-set on keeping expedition map in the deck, you'll want a singleton copy of Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai.  That card is insane with Smokestack / Crucible.

EDIT:  Sorry for my ramblings, I'm a bit incoherent right now because I'm rushing.  Have to go soon.  

I would also probably move Trinisphere to the sideboard.  As you mentioned, it's really only good turn 1, and most likely only if you're on the play.  Because you're going to be on the draw 50% of the time in game 1 anyway, you might as well have a better card in your opening hand (or mid game, or late game).  You can board it in for when you're on the play.

Expedition Map is definitely very interesting, and I think I'm going to test out this decklist before I make a ton of blind assumptions / comments / etc.  I'm just giving you my initial thoughts. 

[meadbert]

What is your reasoning behind not including Tangle Wire?

In general I am not a huge fan of Tangle Wire.  That control decks are running Spell Pierce makes it that much worse since they will tap out, hit their land drop and still have enough mana for Spell Pierce.  This particular list lacks a fast clock to take advantage of Tangle Wire early, or Welders to recur it from the graveyard.
Tangle Wire is decent, but not as good as Chalice of the Void which is the card I most want to add to the main deck.


2xSculpting Steel sounds about right although 3 might be okay also.  With 4 I do get too many hands with 2 in them.

Expedition Map is a huge bomb that gets either Strip Mine to mana shaft my opponent or Academy/Shop to power out my own spells.  In that vacuum it is amazing.
The problem is it makes Null Rod so much worse.  So in a vacuum Map is amazing, but it is competing with Null Rod so that might not be enough.

The primary reason to run Map/Powder/Crucible is to protect your Shops.  Basically opening with turn 1 Shop into Null Rod is dangerous if Shop is Wasted.

I rarely play Chalice@1.  I will play it against TPS/ANT.  Usually when I board Chalice in, it is against Fish and Oath and I am looking to play it for 2.

Serum Powder's alternate uses in this deck are different than Uba Stax.  In Uba Stax you frequently Bazaar Powder away, or Weld it out.  In this list you actually use Powder as a mana source.  Basically the Mox, Shop, Powder, Resistor opening is very strong.  Powder also pays for Map activations, animates Factory or can be animated by Karn.

[voltron00x]

I actually don’t think Null Rod is very good at the moment, and I wouldn’t play the deck without Tangle Wire, but that’s just me.

One of the main reasons I like MUD is its ability to play Chalice of the Void on 1 with essentially no drawback at all (my list has only one card in the main, Sol Ring, that costs 1).  This is a very powerful play against Noble Fish, Dredge, Tezzeret, and Oath.

That said, Vintage metagames are highly Regional.  What’s good in my neck of the woods might be terrible in yours.  I will say that I went 3-0 against Tezz (consecutively, in rounds 4, 5, and 6 against opponents that were 2-1, 3-1, and 4-1) at the last Blue Bell and never felt I wanted or needed Null Rod.  One of the failures of my early attempts to play Shops late in ’09 (by modifying Twaun’s B/R Stax list) was an overemphasis on Null Rod and an undervaluing of Chalice of the Void.

At Blue Bell, Tangle Wire and Rishadan Port were clutch for me all day and made sure my threats resolved against decks with counterspells.  Tangle Wire is one of the best cards against Shops, Oath, and Fish, all of which are popular.

Expedition Map is a cool idea, though, I’d like to see you actually test it out against some other top decks and see if its worth the inclusion.

Serum Powders are part of the NYSE list at the moment.  They seem relatively strong given the fact that these builds have so much duplication.

[Troy_Costisick]

That said, Vintage metagames are highly Regional.  What’s good in my neck of the woods might be terrible in yours.  I will say that I went 3-0 against Tezz (consecutively, in rounds 4, 5, and 6 against opponents that were 2-1, 3-1, and 4-1) at the last Blue Bell and never felt I wanted or needed Null Rod.  One of the failures of my early attempts to play Shops late in ’09 (by modifying Twaun’s B/R Stax list) was an overemphasis on Null Rod and an undervaluing of Chalice of the Void.

Is Tez really the deck to worry about anymore, or is it Fish?  I've only done some rough sampling, but it seems to me, at least, that Tez is on the decline and Rod decks and Shop decks are rising.  I'm liking Chalice a lot myself.

Peace,

-Troy

[RJ]

Nice list Bert.  I do have one question for everyone who is working on MUD right now though.  Have the 4 Ancient Tombs ever been a concern especially with the rise of Fish where the life actually becomes a commodity?

[meadbert]

In this list the answer is Yes and I have been considering swapping out the Tombs for Petrified Fields.

Here is full explanation for why I originally included the Tombs.  I know from experience that with Serum Powder Uba Stax I can just mulligan into either Shop or Welder/RedSource/Bazaar.  Over 90% of the time you get either of those with atleast 5 cards and you probably have 6 or 7 cards 80% of the time.  Hands with Black Lotus, Sol Ring or Academy are also considerations.  Without the Welder/Bazaar option you are left mulliganing to Shop and possibly Sol Ring, Black Lotus or Academy.
Many hands with Lotus are way too risky with Spheres.  In Uba Stax, Lotus can power out a quick Chalice@2, turn 1 Uba Mask or a quick Chalice@2.  Lotus can also pay for Welder or potentially multiple Welders.  With the Resistors, Lotus is a huge risk.  You could open with turn 1 Lodestone Golem which is nice, but turn 1 Resistor or Thorn or both with only Factory + Mox in play is risky since you are locking yourself out.

Anyway, you cannot afford to mulligan quite as aggressively without the Bazaar/Welder plan.  That is why I inserted Ancient Tombs.  It helped provide more keepable hands early.  Also, tombs help pay for Map activations.  Basically if you have turn 1 Mox, Tomb, Map, Resistor.  Then you can activate Map turn 2 and either Strip or get a Shop and you are in business.  There are compelling reasons to run Tombs, but the life loss is an issue and the fact that you do not want to use Tomb to activate Factory is also an issue.

 

[voltron00x]

That said, Vintage metagames are highly Regional.  What’s good in my neck of the woods might be terrible in yours.  I will say that I went 3-0 against Tezz (consecutively, in rounds 4, 5, and 6 against opponents that were 2-1, 3-1, and 4-1) at the last Blue Bell and never felt I wanted or needed Null Rod.  One of the failures of my early attempts to play Shops late in ’09 (by modifying Twaun’s B/R Stax list) was an overemphasis on Null Rod and an undervaluing of Chalice of the Void.

Is Tez really the deck to worry about anymore, or is it Fish?  I've only done some rough sampling, but it seems to me, at least, that Tez is on the decline and Rod decks and Shop decks are rising.  I'm liking Chalice a lot myself.

Peace,

-Troy

Well, that’s sort of what I was trying to say… I view Null Rod as a card that you’d primarily want to use to beat Tezz, but you can beat Tezz without it, and Tezzeret is a much smaller percent of many metas than it used to be.  That’s why I didn’t play it at the last Blue Bell, and I felt no need for it throughout the day, despite playing against Tezz in 50% of my matches; including my match against Brad (Oath w/ Key-Vault), I played against Time Vault decks in 4 of 6 rounds and 4-0'ed those matches.

The only round I really wanted Null Rod would’ve been in round 1 vs Two Card Monte.

[TheShop]

Your comment about the Land + Mox with Sphere hands is interesting to me.  The problem about being locked out an having higher mana costs may be an issue for this list,  but balancing out the threats to include several at the 2 or less cost slots dramatically reduces a shop deck's dependency on workshop itself.  This may not be the focus of your deck, but there has been several complaints on the forums over the last few months about shop decks being inconsistent as a result of not being able to tap a workshop.  Just my 2 cents.

Suggestions to shore up the problem:

as others have said- Chalice.  Maybe one other threat at a 2-3 cost.  I agree that you can get locked under your own artifacts.  However, I think the idea of shop has always been (to differing degrees), that even if you both are forced to go to draw-go for a while, you have a higher likelihood of ripping mana off the top and playing through than a drain player.  I know several people are going as low as 25-26 mana sources, but keeping the sources high and running those lower costs keeps everything asymmetrical.

[serracollector]

Just wondering but if not the inclusion of null rod then why no mana crypt, or metal workers?  I understand that 99% of the time u want first turn spehere, but first turn worker, second turn cast muli spehres, map, and pop map for strip/waste is pretty pwerful too.  Maybe -1 Karn, -2 Scultping for 1 mana crypt/2 metal worker?  Would help with activations and casting of crucible/map at same time more often.  And with 4 serums, getting a mana source of 3+ on turn one would not be hard at all.

[Prospero]

I like that you didn't fall into the City of Traitors trap.  That card sees play, and shouldn't.  You need recurrable mana sources.

I don't particularly like the Mishra's Factories.  I think you should consider running something else, like Port, or other mana denial.

I would probably also cut the Expedition Maps for Wires.

Still, overall, I like the list.

[Neonico]

I like that you didn't fall into the City of Traitors trap.  That card sees play, and shouldn't.  You need recurrable mana sources.

I don't particularly like the Mishra's Factories.  I think you should consider running something else, like Port, or other mana denial.

I would probably also cut the Expedition Maps for Wires.

Still, overall, I like the list.

I would definatly cutt Powder before Maps to reintroduce Tangle wire (which should be included, especially in this oath heavy metagame). The deck is stable enough, and have a high enough density to make them allmost useless. After all, maps are also a way to have Shops in the first 2 turns, so the powder into shop play isn't that much needed.

After i started to test an allmost similar list (Tangle instead Powder) I now understand better how Meadbert thought this deck, and acheiving the Crucible/Strip lock is your main goal. So i wouldn't cutt completly Expedition Maps, even if i feel that 4 is at least one too much.

About the land base, I totally agree that City of traitors don't belong to this deck. It really shines in the aggro versions of MUD, not the prison ones, where the board developpement is really critical.
Here are some lands i seriously consider to include in the mishra's Factories slots, which also didn't fully satisfy me. I really think that this deck have a so high lock piece density that Karn and Golems are really enough to finish the games early enough when needed..

First, as i also play metalworkers (-1 thorn, 2 Sculpting steel, -1 Expedition map) I'm actually testing a lone Gargoyle Castle as my man land. It's a perfect finisher and has a really good synergy with crucible. Should remain a factory in a non metalworker version of the deck.
Second, i completed the manland suite with 1 Gods' Eye,Which is alot better than Factory in a prison version of MUD, because its really synergic with SMokestack and tangle wire.
Then, i completed this 4 slots with two Horizon Canopy, which have been great actually in the long games. It's even possible that the 4 factories should be 4 horizon Canopy. I'll try that.

One last thought : Chalice has allways been my main weapon against Oath, how do you guys feel without playing it ? It seems that this deck is more built like a 5cStax shell, but even in 5cStax, it has allways been hard for me to completly cutt CHalive of the VOid. Also, isn'tDUppliquant better than Sculting Stell in the actual metagame, especially if you go down to 2.

[meadbert]

So in my testing I have been losing to Tinker on the draw a ton.  Chalice does not help there.  Tangle Wire would not have helped in many of these situations anyway.

The common problem is the Force/Spell Pierce my turn 1 Threat and Tutor for Tinker and Tinker turn 2.  At this point it is too late for Mana Denial.  Karn will not win a race.  Tangle Wire could pull it out if I drop Tangle and Smokey in order so maybe Tangle Wire is the right call.

In Uba Stax I would at least have Ensnaring Bridge as an answer with Bazaars to dig and Welder to recur a countered Bridge.

The good news, is that on the play this deck is very strong.

Metalworker is a good idea, but does not help against either turn 2 Tinker or a quick Oath.  He actually hurts against Oath.  Also, he sort of makes you play like you are on the draw since you lack turn 1 disuprtion when you play him.  Metalworker is still really good in general.

God's Eye is an interesting idea.

If I were to drop Factories I would be tempted to add Petrified Fields to protect Shop and Recur Strip.
Factories were added to slow down Fish originally.  There are still a ton of Dark Confidants around so Factory is decent, but you cannot play Welder games which I miss.

Chalice is amazing against Oath which is why it is in the board.  Serum Powders help mulligan to Chalice@2.

Regarding the comment about Shops being happy to play draw/go with Drains:  I disagree.  Basically you may run 1-4 extra mana source, but their mana curve is much lower.  Drain decks can play spells that cost 2 and less much more easily than Shops can. 

[Neonico]

I allmost came to all of your conclusions but one.... After the tinker player had dedicated alot of this ressource in the tinker plan, stacks and tangle are a good way to stall a tinkered robot, as very often, the tinker players have a very low permanent count, should be 3 or 4.

[meadbert]

I allmost came to all of your conclusions but one.... After the tinker player had dedicated alot of this ressource in the tinker plan, stacks and tangle are a good way to stall a tinkered robot, as very often, the tinker players have a very low permanent count, should be 3 or 4.

I do not want to just stall.  I want to win.  Tangle does not do that unless followed by Smokey.
Tangle will probably only tap them out a turn or maybe 2.  If you do not follow up with Smokey right behind it you are in trouble.
Even if you can follow Tangle with Smokey you may still be in trouble.

They have 3 Permanents post Tinker.  You drop Tangle.
They Tap out and hit land drop to 4th permanent.
You drop Smokey.
They tap 3 mana source and swing.
Ramp smokey.
They sac 1 mana source, tap 2 and swing and drop another land.
Ramp smokey.
They sac 2 mana sources, tap 1 and swing for win.

Anyway, they need to drop 2 more permanets over 3 turns, but they can definitely win through Tangle + Smokey in order.
If they did not draw 2 lands, then they might have drawn bounce which is worse.

If you have Smokey + Tangle, then that can work better, but they may have drain up for Tangle and to get in 3 Swings through Smokey they only need 1 more permanent.

Just Tangle is bad if not followed quickly by Smokestack since you are not going to win an aggro war or be able to recur Tangle.
Just Smokey has a chance, but they are likely to get another permanent.  You really need both which is the problem in a deck with no draw and no Tutors.

Here are the 3 options as I see them.  None are appealing.
1)  Count on Tangle/Smokey to save you.  For the reasons above I do not see this as a winning strategy, but it may be the best option.
2)  Add Ensnaring Bridge into a deck in which it has negative Synergy.  Basically just decide that Karn and Golem are a house on their own and can always act as lock components in conjunction with Bridge.  Then lock them down, sack Bridge to Smokey, or wait till you have 5 in hand and win that way.
3)  Hope to win the die roll.

[Neonico]

My suggestion was to maindeck 2 dupp instead of 2 Sculpting steel, any thought about that ?

[meadbert]

My suggestion was to maindeck 2 dupp instead of 2 Sculpting steel, any thought about that ?

I am definitely in favor of dropping to 2 Sculpting Steel.  Duplicant does not solve the problem if it is Inkwell Leviathan that is Tinkered for.

[Evenpence]

My suggestion was to maindeck 2 dupp instead of 2 Sculpting steel, any thought about that ?

I am definitely in favor of dropping to 2 Sculpting Steel.  Duplicant does not solve the problem if it is Inkwell Leviathan that is Tinkered for.

Sculpting Steel > any other options vs. Tinker.  If you're worried about Tinker, I would keep your SS count at 3-4.

[meadbert]

How does Sculpting Steel help against Tinker?

[Evenpence]

How does Sculpting Steel help against Tinker?

You copy whatever they got, it's the only card that is ballin' vs. Inkwell Leviathan.

EDIT:  BTW, if you ever drop a Sculpting Steel on an Inkwell Leviathan in a tournament, you need to say BALLIN in my honor now.  I don't ask for much, Meadbert.  <3

[meadbert]

How does Sculpting Steel help against Tinker?

You copy whatever they got, it's the only card that is ballin' vs. Inkwell Leviathan.

EDIT:  BTW, if you ever drop a Sculpting Steel on an Inkwell Leviathan in a tournament, you need to say BALLIN in my honor now.  I don't ask for much, Meadbert.  <3

HUGE!!!  I will be saying BALLIN in your honor!
So I assumed Sculpting Steel targeted!  Yeah, that answers Tinker right there and means that first I will be running 4 and second, all my problems are solved!
Time to retest in a world where I play by the rules.

There were a couple of other questions I ran into mostly involving Sculpting Steel and Mishra's Factory.  Basically what happens if I Sculpting Steel an animated Factory and what if it was pumped?

[Troy_Costisick]

There were a couple of other questions I ran into mostly involving Sculpting Steel and Mishra's Factory.  Basically what happens if I Sculpting Steel an animated Factory and what if it was pumped?

Meadbert,

My understanding of the rules would mean that SS would come into play as an unanimated Mishra's Factory.  Here's the relevant text from the comprehensive rules:

503.2
When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics (name, mana cost, color, type, supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, and toughness) and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values that are printed on the object, as modified by other copy effects, plus any values set for face-down spells or permanents and any values set by "comes into play as" abilities. Other effects (including type-changing effects) and counters are not copied.

Example:
Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads ": Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature that reads, "As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you do, Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature." After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone comes into play as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)

Peace,

-Troy

[meadbert]

So after more testing Tez and TPS are very favorable matchups and still favorable post board.
Fish is favorable.

Oath is currently the only unfavorable matchup.

[Neonico]

IMO, considering the actual builds of all of the tiers 1 and 2 decks, i really think that dupp should be played instead of Sculpting steel, simply because it's better against fish, confidant, welder, and its only worst against Inkwhell leviathan, but it's not a card i fear the most.... It's simply blocked forever by karn, and anyway, it's actually unplayed (not sure if it's the same everywhere, but at least in my aera, it's unplayed).

The only real issue for the deck with tinker is a fast tinker into Sphynx (which is the most comonly played targtet actually) because of flying (which is the only revelant ability) and both dup and sculpting steel deal with it. But considering all the important targets that dup can hit and not steel, i'll allways prefer dupliquant, assuming the build include Metalworker, of course (6 CMC being an issue if not)

[TheShop]

Prediction:  God's Eye will be a disappointment.

[meadbert]

IMO, considering the actual builds of all of the tiers 1 and 2 decks, i really think that dupp should be played instead of Sculpting steel, simply because it's better against fish, confidant, welder, and its only worst against Inkwhell leviathan, but it's not a card i fear the most.... It's simply blocked forever by karn, and anyway, it's actually unplayed (not sure if it's the same everywhere, but at least in my aera, it's unplayed).

The only real issue for the deck with tinker is a fast tinker into Sphynx (which is the most comonly played targtet actually) because of flying (which is the only revelant ability) and both dup and sculpting steel deal with it. But considering all the important targets that dup can hit and not steel, i'll allways prefer dupliquant, assuming the build include Metalworker, of course (6 CMC being an issue if not)

Duplicant hits Oaths creatures which is nice as well and as you mentioned, Welder is pretty important!  Worker + Duplicant is interesting.  One question is if I add Workers can I drop lands like Factory?  I will have to test that.

[TheShop]

Duplicant + Welder is frequently hilarious.  I actually beat an Oath player with 5 color after being beat to 1 life...winning with 3 permanents: welder, welder, duplicant.

The fact that sculpting steel is easier to cast and is better than a 2/4 while the opponent is not tinkering seems like a heavy dose of additional utility.

[madlucas]

Dear Meadbert,
I'm intensively testing your decklist and I really like how it works.
I really like how the Serum Powders fit into this deck and I can't wait to face any Ichorid player in my next tournament.
Have you ever thought about Spawning Pit to solve our problems vs Oath?( I guess not )

Greetings from Italy.