Thoughtslash

[A_Outcast]

Thoughtslash

Instant
Kicker
Look at target players hand and choose three nonland cards from it.  That player chooses and discards one of those cards.
If the kicker cost was payed, only choose two cards instead of three.



Thoughtslash

Sorcery
Kicker 
Look at target players hand and choose three cards from it.  That player chooses and discards one of those cards.
If the kicker cost was payed, only choose two cards instead of three.

[Marco]

I don't get it... I don't see the point of the kicker... the player will just choose the card they least want to discard regardless of whether they have two or choose cards to choose from... 

[Delha]

The kicker means they lose the second best card in hand instead of third best.

[Anusien]

I think it's a very cool card without complicating it by including the kicker.

[A_Outcast]

I think it's a very cool card without complicating it by including the kicker.

That was the point.  The design plan was for being on the play going t1 land, mox pass, after draw cast with kicker.  hit their best 2 cards.  Chances are good they have two relevent cards in their hand.  Maybe dark confidant+acall or dark confidant+force or force+oath.  This allows for you to have extra knowledge into their deck and playstyle.

Simply put by if their hand is force, bob, land, land, echoing truth, drain, crypt, library.  You can hit bob+force.  So if they throw away their force you should know they feel confidant on racing you.  Wereas if they pitch bob, you might realize that they probobly have 3-4 or plan on relying on library as a draw engine and playing conservatively.  Whereas thoughtsieze and duress give you information on their hand with possible lines of play, this card would, at instant speed, give you information about what line of play they feel most comfortable using, giving information into their deck and probobly lines of play.

[Anusien]

Oh it's an instant? Definitely gotta change.

If you want to enable that play, just make it cost 1B or BB straight-out. Don't mess around.

[Nazdakka]

Excellent concept, execution is good but not perfect.

- Should be a sorcery. Discard almost always is; it avoids rules problems where someone who doesn't know the rules too well tries to make their opponent discard a card 'in response' to their opponent casting that card, and also irritating situations where a player with an empty hand draws their card for the turn, but is immediately forced to discard it before they can do anything.

- Not sure about the kicker. The card works just fine without it, which says to me that maybe it could be removed in the name of elegance, but the kicker is a nice extra layer. Maybe this is a case where you can generate two cards from one idea by doing simple version (B, 3 cards), and then extending it by adding a kicker (B, kicker 1, 4 cards/2 cards)?

[Delha]

I completely overlooked that it was Instant as well. Agreed that this needs to be a sorcery.

[A_Outcast]

Taking it down to sorc speed, while still fair, would make it seem like a bad thoughtsieze.  Because they get to pick what gets hit which takes away a lot of the power of this card.

As for the rules issue, just call a judge ><

[Anusien]

Instant speed discard isn't printed except in special circumstances because it's too easy to lock somebody out.

P.S., most Magic players never play in a tournament.

[Delha]

Transparency is golden. Any time you have to hit up the rulebook, that's a strike against the elegance of the game. Better to just build stuff so it works cleanly and is easily understood in the first place.

[thorme]

Taking it down to sorc speed, while still fair, would make it seem like a bad thoughtsieze. 

Maybe allowing the caster to chose lands would make it something different versus a bad Thoughtsieze (also makes it closer to a reverse Blackmail).  I don't think you need to worry too much about it being easy to mana screw someone, since to guarantee a land discard, you have to chose 3 lands from their hand meaning they're not really mana-light to begin with.

[A_Outcast]

Taking it down to sorc speed, while still fair, would make it seem like a bad thoughtsieze. 

Maybe allowing the caster to chose lands would make it something different versus a bad Thoughtsieze (also makes it closer to a reverse Blackmail).  I don't think you need to worry too much about it being easy to mana screw someone, since to guarantee a land discard, you have to chose 3 lands from their hand meaning they're not really mana-light to begin with.

true, thats a good point considering how i made the discard effect.