[Videos + Top8 decklists]: LCV6 - Berga 24/4/2010 (54 players)

[LotusHead]

I found myself with 75 sleeves laying around (a quickie bomberman deck gone bad) and dug up a list off www.Morphling.de for the local gauntlet (2 Shop Decks, some Tezz Deck, some Oath Deck, a Dredge Deck, Vintage Elves Deck) and came across #2 at Breda recently.  I spent 90 minutes sleeving it up (finding appropriate proxies, etc) whilst watching Dr. Strangelove on www.Hulu.com, happy as can be.

Then I started to really analyze the deck I was assembling. No dark ritualss? No necro? Not even Tinker? How does it win?

Then I came to this thread to see if they had any more vids of the top 8.  There was one!

Doh! It's the very deck I was wondering about!

Thanks for the vids, they are truly helpful and very entertaining. (Just noticed that M.I.A. is apparently the artist that made the cool Slumdog Millionaire song and apparently has other songs that are really good).


<==------   clueless about current music.

[piZZero]

I saw M.I.A. live once here in Barcelona. It was impressive, so much energy on the stage and the music had so much power. Anyways, the first video from the finals will be up shortly

I've taken a little more time editing this one since it's the final's games, so I really hope you guys like it

[piZZero]

There we go with the first game from the finals! I've added it to the initial post, or just check it out at www.team-pataners.com.

[VsTheWorld]

Love the multiple Workshop fails.

[Neonico]

Love the multiple Workshop fails.

The most epic fail of the game is countering trinisphere when you have 4 stable/Wastelandproof manas on turn 1 IMHO....
I don't pretend to be a great Control player, but the first sphere or trinisphere when you're on the play and have at least 3 manas wastelandproof on turn 2 shouldn't be countered in allmost any case.

BTW Jordi, i really enjoyed those videos.... But i have a suggestion : would be nice to have the life totals if you can include them.

[PeAcH]

@Neonico:

It really depends on the role you are trying to play IMHO. If you try not to be a control player but a combo one I think the best way is to keep yourself clear of annoying resistors whenever possible. It´s not that they don´t allow you to develop your game (this is obvious) but also they force you to play just one thread at a time (or tutor or bounce or draw) so it´s like an arcane lab of some sort AND play the game at their PACE, not yours. So, if the Trinisphere hits the table you can just pass the turn back as you have to keep FOW online JIC.

But, as I say, in the end, this decission really depends on your approach to the game itself (and the player you are facing if you know him) and your gameplan.

[Neonico]

What you say could be true but i disagree in those 2 particular situations. I think that it's a bad thing to have a pre-determined gameplan (which it seems to be what happened there) in a deck that can assume 2 gameplan (which a control-combo deck can do). The main decision factor to choose your gameplan is your opening hand, and how it evolves with  your draws.

Considering the hands he opened, both when he first turn counter the sphere in 1/4, and when he counters trinisphere in the final, none of the spheres are bothering him in his plan. He has the force of will opening, with cards like gifts, not a combo made hand (like fast EtW) so he has to play control. In this kind of matchup, your goal is to play a hurlyl's-like effect allmost anytime anyway, so you have to only counter a lethal threat, or the lock element that will keep you unable to play your bounce. I think that it's especially true in a bounce-heavy version of the drain-combo decks. The choice of the plan is really determinant, and i really think that he would have won game 1 if he let a non-bothering trinisphere resolves, whatever his draws would have been after. He had alot of outs to deal with  it anyway, and was allsmost sure to be able to play both a tutor and a solution, at worst on turn 3.

It's especially true considering how much solution he has to trinisphere, even on game 1 :
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Fire // Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
4 Repeal
1 Vampiric Tutor

He has around 51-52 cards left in his deck, and that's at least 12 solutions, all playable as he has 4 mana on turn 1. 9 of them doesn't require black mana, so you don't have to fear wasteland.
Note that with his 5 manas, 4 of them being wasteland-proof, he can play any of those solutions even if he faces a sphere + trinisphere. 2/3 of those solutions can be played end of opponent's turn before comboing out if your plan evolves to a more comboish route during the game. He can also Bounce and counter the most annoying threat just after (like in the final : Hurkyl before Chalice for 2 resolves than counter the chalice with the FoW he would have saved, or something like that).

On a more general note, it's allmost never usefull to counter a first sphere, unless your deck is going to fast combo road (Vault/key or fast EtW), or unless your lands are vulnerable to wasteland, simply because it won't change your possibility to force on turn 1, drain on turn 2 if you have a mox, hurkyl on turn 3 to combo out on turn 4, which i think is the main plan of the deck in the matchup.

[Evenpence]

I was amazed @ the first fail.  I would have figured he would have known how Chalices worked.

...Then to see the sphere get countered like three turns later...

Wow.

[grungyboy]

the videos keep getting better and better...videos like these are very helpful especially to people who wants to learn more about vintage and people who can't go to tourneys lately (like me  ) ..looking forward for more videos from upcoming tourneys...keep up the good work!!

[Shock Wave]

Very interesting G1 of the finals! More tragic misplays by the blue shop player. . I love the "FAIL" interludes  . Keep up the great work!

[PeAcH]

@Neonico

From my POW what is important is to know which role each player has to play in certain match-ups and know when you can race your opponent (specially playing combo-control decks). So, trying to achieve it or to play in relation to this "already established gameplan" seems to me the path to take. As I already commented, trying to set certain routes of action in certain situations (specially in one of this "Good Vs. Evil" matchups where each archetype fights against its most feared foe) really depends on: builds, style of play, and knowing of your opponent's playstyle. So what one thinks can be used for one match/person/deck might not be used in another situation.

You mention the fact that the hand forces you to play a role. Well, this can be turned upside down with a top deck like a tutor or a blue bomb. Then what? You have to keep playing the control role because your opponent forces you to?

Then you find yourself interacting with your opponent, not playing your game

[CwaM]

Nice videos, it sure can be used to improve everyone's game

Like Neonico I wouldn't have Fow the 3Spheres.
With so many way to deal with it (repeals/hurkyl's/fire-ice), I would have used it for a golem/tangle wire
I would love to know Guillem's point of view on this one

[piZZero]

Nice videos, it sure can be used to improve everyone's game

Like Neonico I wouldn't have Fow the 3Spheres.
With so many way to deal with it (repeals/hurkyl's/fire-ice), I would have used it for a golem/tangle wire
I would love to know Guillem's point of view on this one

Read the post on top of yours

[Neonico]

@Neonico

From my POW what is important is to know which role each player has to play in certain match-ups and know when you can race your opponent (specially playing combo-control decks). So, trying to achieve it or to play in relation to this "already established gameplan" seems to me the path to take. As I already commented, trying to set certain routes of action in certain situations (specially in one of this "Good Vs. Evil" matchups where each archetype fights against its most feared foe) really depends on: builds, style of play, and knowing of your opponent's playstyle. So what one thinks can be used for one match/person/deck might not be used in another situation.

You mention the fact that the hand forces you to play a role. Well, this can be turned upside down with a top deck like a tutor or a blue bomb. Then what? You have to keep playing the control role because your opponent forces you to?

Then you find yourself interacting with your opponent, not playing your game

I think that we have a totally different point of view on how playing a control combo deck, and it's okay. For me, a control-combo deck, which is designed to operate on 2 plans is exactly why you can't have a predetermined plan, even in a specific matchup.

As you said, yes i trully think that your opening hand, what your opponent plays, and how your draw will make all that evovles is what decides the path you have to take, and also how you'll change it during the game.

As CwaM noticed, i trully think that it's okay to build your hand/take your time as long as your opponnent isn't threatening. In a MUD like matchup, i wouldn't counter a sphere effect unless it really avoid me to play the control elements, but i would prefer to foprce the real threat, which is Golem in my point of view, because it putts you on a very fast clock. I also really think that your build is sooooo bombs/Tutors/COntrol elements heavy in the matchup that you'll have both a bomb and a solution or a tutor for one or the other, that you don't have to force your role. Your opponent with this kind of deck will give you the time to assemble what you need if you counter the real threat.

You also mention the interaction factor, but as i read your list, i personally think that, at least in the shop matchup, you play your game which for me is something like building your mana in the first 2 turns, draining, bouncing, bombing. The interaction elements are just a way to keep this plan opened, but it's not trully interaction.

At least, it's how i would play your list, which i really like and will give it a try. And congrats on your finish.

[PeAcH]

Neonico
I also really think that your build is sooooo bombs/Tutors/COntrol elements heavy in the matchup that you'll have both a bomb and a solution or a tutor for one or the other, that you don't have to force your role.

Well, in this case, it´s better to have the path clear to play your spells whenever you want to instead of playing at your opponent´s pace, no? ehhehehe. In the end, it´s just the way I like to play the deck. But all opinions are welcome, of course. I truly like to see how people would play in certain situations

Regarding the interaction war, this deck normally plays none...with Tendrils being the "I win NOW" factor, Mid Range Desire helping versus control (which you normally crush) and Empty being the backup plan for mana heavy hands, Fish and MUD matchups. You can play on your own not having to worry about almost anything until you go off.

The bouncers are focused mainly to be played on you (now I play CoV again which was dropped from the list as I normally play in a fish/confidant heavy populated metagame hence the 2 F&I) except for this very same MU. That´s why I overload the side with additional bounce/Emptys.

What would your changes to the maindeck be? Any comments? There are maybe 1/2 slots still open and undecided depending on the meta.

[Neonico]

Actually, the 3 slots i dislike the most are :
4th Repeal
2nd FIre/ice
2nd Top

I wouldn't play any control-combo deck without tinker in the maindeck actually, and would certainly try to putt in a dark ritual in the mix....
2-3 Spellpierce could also be a possibility for me, simply because, as you perhaps noticed, i love to assume the more control role with this kind of deck.
 
At first, those are the few changes i can think of, but the list is also really good like that and i will give it a try this weekend and let you know what i think of it.

[piZZero]

I wouldn't play any control-combo deck without tinker in the maindeck actually, and would certainly try to putt in a dark ritual in the mix....

Actually, that's what I was thinking of. I remember playing Mono Gifts Tendrils with 1 main deck Dark Ritual and it was absolutely awesome.

[Sobolev]

More videos!

[piZZero]

Hopefully tomorrow i'll be able to release the video from the 2nd game of the finals.

I've been quite busy at work the past 3 days, leaving me without any free time for myself

[chrissss]

so effin awesome, I wish more people would record and post videos, its fun to watch.

thanks a lot dude.

[islanderboi10]

Thanks for the vids, they were definetly a cool change.

Is there going to be more posted?

[piZZero]

Thanks for the vids, they were definetly a cool change.

Is there going to be more posted?

Thanks!

Yes, there's going to be more videos soon. I still have pending the 2 remaining videos from the finals. I haven't had a day off in the past 2 weeks and that's why I haven't found myself forces enough to sit down and do some editing. It doesn't help neither that I've been chosen for the SC2 beta

But don't worry! More videos comming soon!

By the way, on the mean time, feel free to check the tournament analysis done by Roger Riera:

http://www.team-pataners.com/top8-decklists-and-analysis-from-lcv6-4/

There's some pretty cool data and charts.

Cheers,

piZZero - Jordi Amat

[FAVO!!!!1]

Thank you very much for the advices! I'll try Final Cut as soon as I get my hands on it. The poing about the light is also important, I felt like moving all the time to avoid the reflexes from the cards. I guess it would it be better to use a tripod, but then you don't get to see the hands and draws. What do you guys prefer?

A tripod won't make any difference when it comes to lighting; the reflection is actually the florescent giving you problems. Unlike other light sources, florescent is made to bounce harder to give you more light. That is why most florescents needs a cover. That is also why everything we use on set needs reflectors: to keep it from bouncing into oblivion.

The only thing stronger than a florescent light is natural sunlight.

What a tripod will help with is shakiness. Its easier to focus with a tripod because you are not constantly moving the camera.

[piZZero]

Second video from the finals is up! Enjoy!

http://www.team-pataners.com/video-lcv6-4-final-guillem-ragull-vs-israel-munoz-g2/

[waikiki]

that brainstorm was awesome!

[marcb]

What did he discard to TfK?

[covetousrat]

He discared Time walk+Hurkyls recall. Broken brainstorm to save the day.

[piZZero]

Game 3 is going to take a little longer to be published due to the heavy amount of editing that is required. The game was around 38 minutes long, which I need to cut down to 10. On top of that, there's a 1st turn Sensei's Divining Top, which makes my work totally insane. (Ban Top for the sake of video editors!).

It's a good game and I hope you guys like it

Stay tunned!

piZZero - Jordi Amat

[InfectedMushroom]

Instead of cutting too much out, you can always do, for example, a part one and part two of the round. Thank you for the work though, I have enjoyed watching all of your videos!

[Evenpence]

Instead of cutting too much out, you can always do, for example, a part one and part two of the round. Thank you for the work though, I have enjoyed watching all of your videos!

Seconded.

If you didn't want to edit the games at all, and just put them up unedited, I think everyone would be cool with that too.  That being said, the editing does make it much better.  Great work, and thank you.