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Author Topic: Need helm with a deck  (Read 1182 times)
A_Outcast
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« on: June 03, 2010, 01:58:38 am »

Lands/mana
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Wasteland
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Forbidden Orchard
2 City of Brass
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 City of Traitors


Creatures
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

Engines/search
2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Compulsive Research
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Protection/Disruption
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snares
2 Ancient Grudges

1 Ancient Grudge
2 Cunning Wish
3 Pernicious Deed

4 Pernicious Deed
1 Hurkyl's Recall


Wincon/Misc
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Helm of Obediance
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Regrowth


Sideboard
1 Spell Pierce
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Consume the Meek
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Brainfreeze
2 Extirpate
1 Misdirection
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Krosan Grip
1 Rack and Ruin

4 Ravenous Trap
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Misdirection
2 Sower of Temptation


62 cards.  It originally had a Mind twist but I cut it for a second ancient grudge because the stax matchup is bad, and added two sowers because the fish matchup was so bad.  I wish I knew what to cut but I'm totally at loss.  Not sure if I should add in a 3rd cunning wish, had one originally in there but felt that two would be sufficient.

edit (June 5):  anything striken through was removed, anything bold was added.  I'll remove the old strikes/bold if I update the deck again.  I came to realize that the second sower was not that good, and id rather draw deed against aggroe, so i simply cut the sower.  i also cut the off color mox and mana crypt for 2 more lands, to help my compulsive research and help me.  Has worked well so far.

edit (June 13): Came to realize I don't ever really care about taking anything with sower and would rather just clear my opponents board, plus deed is much stronger then sower against almost everything else on the board.  Currently testing with a platinum angel over fact because in general it is a pretty good answer.  Most of the time I see people pitching their hurkyl's against me to counte something.  I'm not sure if platinum is the right call in that spot or if it should be a crucible or if I should just go down to 60 cards.  I feel as though 61 cards is the right number though, not sure why.

edit (june 22): I just donkey punched the decklist.  I came at it with a fresh mindset and tore into it.  I removed the wishes and toolbox sideboard.  I added a 4th deed and added drains.  Added a second crucible again to strengthen the mana denial.  Went down to two moxen (blue and black) due to the fact that any time I saw those moxen I was rarely happy.  Changed most of the sideboard.  Hopefully it will do better now.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 01:36:31 pm by A_Outcast » Logged

NilsH
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 05:42:05 am »

Why do you play Forbidden Orchard? Tech against Oath? In all other matchups City of Brass would be better.

How is the 3 Compulsive Research working out? Do you have enough lands to support it with? On paper it looks like it would just filter most of the time with 16 lands.

The deck looks like a hybrid of The Deck (anno 2010) and Leyline Combo. I can't see why this list is better then either The Deck or some Leyline deck like Two Card Monte or Leyline-Drains. I think The Deck was packing Leyline-Helm Combo in the SB though, maybe check how that deck looked after SB?

The Deck played Wastelands in "spell-slots" with 20 land total. You seem a bit low on colored mana, maybe find room for a additional land(s) and the 4th Wasteland? I see red cards, but no way to fetch a red land. I think adding lands will make both Compulsive Research and Crucible of Worlds better.

Do you need multiple Sowers and Deeds? I think of them as silver bullets, which mean you'll tutor for them most of the time. I would cut 1 of each, but find room for more Sowers in the SB.

How do you like Cunning Wish? I know it's played in The Deck, but I no experience playing The Deck nor that card. Has Regrowth been any good?

Why Fact or Fiction over Gifts Ungiven? Do you need any of them, you allready have Jace and the Compulsive Researches. Is it possible to cut some draw?

Gorilla Shaman used to be good in controll decks with mana denial (Wastelands and Strip Land). He could be tested.

Note: I have not tested the list, nor played anything like it. My questions was asked to get a better understanding of how it works, and start some discussion.  Smile
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A_Outcast
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 12:31:05 pm »

Why do you play Forbidden Orchard? Tech against Oath? In all other matchups City of Brass would be better.

How is the 3 Compulsive Research working out? Do you have enough lands to support it with? On paper it looks like it would just filter most of the time with 16 lands.

The deck looks like a hybrid of The Deck (anno 2010) and Leyline Combo. I can't see why this list is better then either The Deck or some Leyline deck like Two Card Monte or Leyline-Drains. I think The Deck was packing Leyline-Helm Combo in the SB though, maybe check how that deck looked after SB?

The Deck played Wastelands in "spell-slots" with 20 land total. You seem a bit low on colored mana, maybe find room for a additional land(s) and the 4th Wasteland? I see red cards, but no way to fetch a red land. I think adding lands will make both Compulsive Research and Crucible of Worlds better.

Do you need multiple Sowers and Deeds? I think of them as silver bullets, which mean you'll tutor for them most of the time. I would cut 1 of each, but find room for more Sowers in the SB.

How do you like Cunning Wish? I know it's played in The Deck, but I no experience playing The Deck nor that card. Has Regrowth been any good?

Why Fact or Fiction over Gifts Ungiven? Do you need any of them, you allready have Jace and the Compulsive Researches. Is it possible to cut some draw?

Gorilla Shaman used to be good in controll decks with mana denial (Wastelands and Strip Land). He could be tested.

Note: I have not tested the list, nor played anything like it. My questions was asked to get a better understanding of how it works, and start some discussion.  Smile

I mistyped the list, there is also a volcanic island and a tolarian academy, so 18 lands in total.
I run orchard as tech against oath.  Normally I just pitch it to compulsive.
The sowers are strong against aggroe in general which is my weakest matchup.  I originally ran one sower and in another build tried one deed.  The issues was I didn't feel as though I was drawing them enough.  Deed hits so many things.  Most of the times it can easily clear my oponents board.  Plus it deals with my own tokens against everything else.  The second sower was something I added recently so I haven't had a chance to really test it yet.
Cunning wish is honestly amazing.  It lets me find what I need on the spot.  I really regreted cutting it.  It ranges from being a counterspell to a board wipe.  It's utility has been amazing. incredibly good.  Regrowth has been very good in testing.  If I try to resolve helm and they have 2 counters when I'm only expecting one I can regrowth the following turn to recast helm.  The reason I included it was because I originally ran gifts over fact which is why I included regrowth originally, however very rarely did i gifts for yawg+regrowth+2 others.
Cutting draw is possible.  Originally I ran a TfK but cut it for a compulsive research because virtually every time I cast thirst I didnt have an artifact to discard but I did have a land to discard.
I didn't even consider a gorilla shaman.  It could easily take place of the second ancient grudge and give me a stronger control matchup plus help my stax match slightly.    I'll test this deck with a grudge cut for a shaman.
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