Mind over Temple Bell

[MaximumCDawg]

The printing of Temple Bell in M11 gives Mind over Matter a new toy.  Once you get both in play, you can force all players to draw their entire library.  If you've got a Darksteel Collussus in yours, then you'll recycle him endlessly, but the enemy won't be so lucky.  Here's my first attempt at a deck based on this kill condition:

[/deck]
Mana (24)
5 Mox
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Flooded Strand
3 Blue Fetch
4 Tundra
4 Islands
1 Plains

Disruption (20)
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Seal of Cleansing
4 Repeal
1 Balance
1 Hyrkul’s Recall
2 Abeyance / Silence / Chant

Draw Engine (4)
4 Mystic Remora

Tutor Suite (5)
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Personal Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Academy Rector
1 Tinker

Win Conditions (5)
1 Darksteel Collosus
1 Show and Tell
1 Mind Over Matter
2 Temple Bell
[/deck]

The idea is to use the Remora engine to stall the game while you develop a mana base and eventually land the Bell and MoM.  If you can land these guys, you can make everyone draw their entire deck.

The problem I see (other than getting MoM into play) is that your hand won't get bigger while you're churning, since you are pitching to MoM, but your enemy is drawing his or her entire deck one card at a time.  Naturalize isn't a problem, because this would happen: (1) Bell resolves, we all draw; (2) keep priority, pitch card to untap bell; (3) enemy responds with naturalize on bell or MoM; (4) respond by tapping bell to draw.  Or, alternatively, (1) tap bell to draw; (2) enemy responds with naturalize on bell or MoM; (3) respond by pitching a card to MoM to untap Bell, let that resolve; (4) tap bell to draw; then never let the naturalize respond.  In other words, each instant speed removal spell they have in their library simply requires you to start with one additional card in your hand when you start churning to keep the combo going.

K.Grip is a different problem.  Pretty much the only way I can think of to deal with this is to: (1) have enough cards in hand to tap out the enemy with MoM before going off; or (2) cast Chant/Silence/Abeyance before they find and cast K.Grip, either by having it to start or finding it before they find K.Grip.

Thoughts?

[Cyberpunker]

May want to try Spell Snare if you want to stall the game vs Oath. Maybe s/b?

[Delha]

Mind Over Matter is a really strong card, but I think it's cost is too much of a limiting factor to build around. That said, the ability to cycle your entire deck makes a wincon largely irrelevant. You should be able to loot until you're holding Lotus and Will, then just go absolutely crazy. With that in mind, other tap-to-draw effects are probably a better choice, since they don't feed your opponent cards in the process. Library of Alexandria and Archivist are a couple examples. They are admittedly much more limited, but I think suspect that this still outweights the drawback from using Bell.

Regarding disenchant effects on Bell/MoM, your first scenario doesn't work. You pitch to untap, they respond w/ Naturalize, and you try to tap Bell in response. This doesn't work because the untap effect still has not resolved. You will always have to use the second solution.

Ultimately, I think the combo is unfeasible for competitive play, but I'd still suggest you pursue it, especially in light of your unique meta. A few other cards I'd recommend messing with: Accumulated Knowledge and Deep Analysis. Good luck!

[MaximumCDawg]

The reason I think the Bell has the edge over other tap to draw effects is:
(1) Cheaper than the next best thing, Jademeadye (sp?) Tome;
(2) Can deck your opponent if you've been capped or something; and
(3) Is an artifact, so easier to fetch for blue without wasting space in the deck.

It's actually MoM that is the limiting factor, like you said.

Regarding disenchant effects on Bell/MoM, your first scenario doesn't work. You pitch to untap, they respond w/ Naturalize, and you try to tap Bell in response. This doesn't work because the untap effect still has not resolved. You will always have to use the second solution.

Are you sure?  Stack ends up like this:

(1) Tap Bell to draw a card (bell becomes tapped as a cost)
(2) Opp casts Disenchant
(3) Discard to MoM to untap bell

Allow (3) to resolve, then, before allowing (2) to resolve, activate a new (3):

(3) Tap Bell to draw a card

And you're off to the races.

This is what makes this combo stronger than, say, solidarity, since you are not relying on one specific spell for the untap effect.  As you say, though, probably not yet competitive.

EDIT: Oooooh nevermind I see what you mean.  And the opponent gets to chose which effect to respond to, right?  Still, that doesn't change much, since you will just activate MoM again in response if you can, and you're still good.  K.Grip is the killa.

[Delha]

The reason I think the Bell has the edge over other tap to draw effects is:
(1) Cheaper than the next best thing, Jademeadye (sp?) Tome;
(2) Can deck your opponent if you've been capped or something; and
(3) Is an artifact, so easier to fetch for blue without wasting space in the deck.

1. I'm not sure how you think Jayemdae Tome works, but did you forget that it also costs 4 mana per card drawn? Archivist is probably the next best option, even in spite of summoning sickness and additional vulnerability to removal. Enclave Cyptologist or Ocular Umbra are the next things that come to mind.

2. What do you mean by this? If you've been capped, they're presumably taking 2xBell and DSC, meaning you have no wincons left.

3. Not sure what you meant by this. Were you referring to Tinker? Aside from that, I'm not sure how Bell is easier to dig up than say Library, or Archivist.

[MaximumCDawg]

Wow, that was like... my worst post ever.  Apologies for the late night ramblings.

1. Yes, the train left the station without my brain aboard.  Tome costs 4, of course.

2. What I am driving at is that MoM+Bell wins by itself, if protected from removal, because you can force the other player to draw his or her deck.  Archivist doesn't let you do that.  My ill-advised reference to cap effects was intended to describe how you didn't need a particular finisher in your deck after you get going.  With Archivist/Library+MoM, you draw your library, sure, but you need to draw into a win condition.  With MoM+Bell, you win if you have more cards in your library than the opponent, or if you still have a DSC or Eldrazi in your deck.  Cap was a really bad way of getting at this.

3. Bell is easier to dig up than Archivist or Library, though.  Tinker is already in just about any deck that can support blue, and you could run Transmute Artifact without too much hassle as well.  Other than the black tutors, digging up Archivist (Call or Tutor) or Library (Rotation) you're adding green.  And none of these cards can get MoM.  I think it's better to stick with BU or WU, since those tutors get you MoM and keep you in strong colors anyway.

[ErkBek]

I'm not exactly sure why you want to play White over black. Since you don't have a way to sac Academy Rector, you probably just be better served running another Mind over Matter. I guess you really want to run Seal of Cleansing for board control? Cleansing answers Null Rods, Oaths, and various shop cards, but Black gives you Thoughtseize, Demonic, Vamp, and Yawg Will. I'd think 4 Repeals are a pretty decent start to the board control you want.

You definitely should be playing Vault-Key in the deck. Mind over Matter + Time Vault wins too. I'd start with a list like:

24 Mana (similar to yours above, but another land over Mana Vault)

Control 13
4 FoW
2 Drain
2 Spell Pierce
4 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Engine 7
4 Mystic Remora
3 Repeal

Restricted Cards 9
2 Brainstorm / Ancestral
4 Demonic / Vamp / Mystical / Scroll
1 Walk
1 Yawg Will
1 Gifts

Win 7
2 Time Vault / Key
2 Tinker / DSC
1 Bell
1 Mind over Matter

Dark Confidant instead of Repeals might be worth a look too. I'd play black though, you get all sorts of free wins from broken plays and Thoughseize keeps you from falling behind on the board (thus, less of a need for Seals).

[Delha]

2. What I am driving at is that MoM+Bell wins by itself, if protected from removal, because you can force the other player to draw his or her deck.  Archivist doesn't let you do that.  My ill-advised reference to cap effects was intended to describe how you didn't need a particular finisher in your deck after you get going.  With Archivist/Library+MoM, you draw your library, sure, but you need to draw into a win condition.  With MoM+Bell, you win if you have more cards in your library than the opponent, or if you still have a DSC or Eldrazi in your deck.  Cap was a really bad way of getting at this.

3. Bell is easier to dig up than Archivist or Library, though.  Tinker is already in just about any deck that can support blue, and you could run Transmute Artifact without too much hassle as well.  Other than the black tutors, digging up Archivist (Call or Tutor) or Library (Rotation) you're adding green.  And none of these cards can get MoM.  I think it's better to stick with BU or WU, since those tutors get you MoM and keep you in strong colors anyway.

2. Bell wins by itself, but the drawback is huge. You absolutely guarantee that your opponent will see literally every single piece of hate in their deck. Hurkyl's, Claim, you name it. It not even a matter of saying that they'll see one piece. They will unaviodably see ALL of them. As you've stated, you need to have more cards in hand than they have hate in their deck. Why include such a huge limitation when there are other options?

3. If you're set on staying UW, then yes, it is easier to tutor up artifacts. As ErkBek pointed out though, why are you set on that color combo, when black give you both tutoring and protection?

Lastly, I thought of this last night, but forgot to mention it... Words of Wind also has cute interactions with your engine. If you bounce their entire board (and presumably nix their floated mana via empty attack), drawing them into hate might not be so bad.

[Beralt]

Card count in the original post is off, your list is well over 60.

[Lurker101]

You may want to run an Eldrazi with DSC (I'm assuming dsc is also used as a tinker bot here and not just a way to protect yourself from getting decked) as the eldrazi will shuffle your whole graveyard back into your library.