M11 Card Autumn's Veil

[AmbivalentDuck]

Autumn's Veil
Instant   
Spells you control can't be countered by blue or black spells this turn, and creatures you control can't be the targets of blue or black spells this turn.

It's an Orim's Chant-like effect outside of white. With so many decks running for Nature's Claim, will this find a home?  The biggest problem I can see is that Duress and Spell Pierce may simply be strictly better.

[Tha Gunslinga]

So, I play a spell.  You counter it.  I play another spell in response.  You counter that.  I play this and counter both your counters.  It looks sort of like a green anti-counterspell Mindbreak Trap.  I like it.

[Cyberpunker]

This is a Green's Red Elemental Blast!

[Wagner]

Appart from unusual situations like Gunslinga posted, will this really be any better than Guttural Response?

Guttural can also counter regular instants, not only counterspells.

This new one also protect your creatures against black and blue removal, but is this enough?

I don't see this being any better than Duress or the like in combo decks, or even control decks.

[MaximumCDawg]

Appart from unusual situations like Gunslinga posted, will this really be any better than Guttural Response?

Guttural can also counter regular instants, not only counterspells.

This new one also protect your creatures against black and blue removal, but is this enough?

I don't see this being any better than Duress or the like in combo decks, or even control decks.

It has an edge against Noble Fish, since it can either punch you through a counterspell or send your finishing blow past all of the Fish player's blockers...?

[Wagner]

Appart from unusual situations like Gunslinga posted, will this really be any better than Guttural Response?

Guttural can also counter regular instants, not only counterspells.

This new one also protect your creatures against black and blue removal, but is this enough?

I don't see this being any better than Duress or the like in combo decks, or even control decks.

It has an edge against Noble Fish, since it can either punch you through a counterspell or send your finishing blow past all of the Fish player's blockers...?

Did you read the card?

[Troy_Costisick]

Appart from unusual situations like Gunslinga posted, will this really be any better than Guttural Response?

Guttural can also counter regular instants, not only counterspells.

This new one also protect your creatures against black and blue removal, but is this enough?

I don't see this being any better than Duress or the like in combo decks, or even control decks.

It has an edge against Noble Fish, since it can either punch you through a counterspell or send your finishing blow past all of the Fish player's blockers...?

I don't get it.  The creatures don't gain pro-black and pro-blue.  They just can't be targeted by blue and black spells.  Maybe I misunderstand you.

[Xequecal]

It's vaguely playable. In addition to countering counterspells, remember you can lead with it to protect everything you do that turn, like Orim's Chant. The Vintage elves deck might want to play this.

[MaximumCDawg]

I don't get it.  The creatures don't gain pro-black and pro-blue.  They just can't be targeted by blue and black spells.  Maybe I misunderstand you.

Er... my mistake.  But now that I'm reading it closely, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between the two elements of the card.  In what situation would you want to give your critters shroud from blue and black spells but not counter the spell in question?  I suppose this just allows you to use the card pre-emptively?  (I think it was the subtle difference in the spell's abilities that lead me astray in the first place).

[Delha]

Er... my mistake.  But now that I'm reading it closely, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between the two elements of the card.  In what situation would you want to give your critters shroud from blue and black spells but not counter the spell in question?  I suppose this just allows you to use the card pre-emptively?  (I think it was the subtle difference in the spell's abilities that lead me astray in the first place).

It's just distinguishing between your spells on the stack vs your creatures on the board. Excluding some corner cases, it plays a similar role in each of two different zones (the stack and the field).

[nineisnoone]

lol, at it stopping black spells from countering it. (yes, I understand they just did that for flavor).

I don't think it's better than Guttural response.  It's not better than Orim's Chant.  I don't think it's better than Red Elemental Blast.  

If you're running a bunch of your spells into their counter spells, you're deck just has problems.  If it's just a one for one counter, Guttural is better because it hits non-counter instant blue spells.  Orim's Chant has more flexibility in being able shut out an opposing main phase.

[T00L]

Apparently you've never had your hopes dashed

[nineisnoone]

Apparently you've never had your hopes dashed

only in real life. 

[Wagner]

Apparently you've never had your hopes dashed

Or having your death gripped...
Or your Boons withered...

Ok, I'll stop now...

[DubDub]

Apparently you've never had your hopes dashed

Or having your death gripped...
Or your Boons withered...

Ok, I'll stop now...

This spell actually doesn't prevent Deathgrip from countering spells.

[TopSecret]

In a deck like Belcher without easy access to Orim's Chant, this card can be better than Gutteral Response, but it's really scenario specific. I guess if you knew that you weren't going to really ever need to counter any blue instants besides counterspells because your deck was so blindingly fast, then this card would probably be better than Gutteral Response for all of those odd scenarios.

Like, hypothetically, you have a Goblin Welder and someone casts a Threads of Disloyalty on it and this would counter it while Gutteral would not. (I think this works?) There's a bunch of stuff like that that could happen, plus the other stuff that was mentioned. So if one of those hundreds of individual scenarios cropping up seems more likely than needing to counter an Ancestral, then this card is better than Gutteral.

Also, it works like Chant, right? So if you had Memory Jar or another draw 7 in your deck, this card would have an upside over Gutteral because you could cast it and then not have to worry about counters for the rest of the turn even if your opponent drew some off Jar.

[Troy_Costisick]

I think this Mold Adder replacement will be replaced in M12.  The other four color hosers all blow things up.  This is the only one that tries to be sneaky about it.  I'm looking for a Green Elemental Blast next year.

[AmbivalentDuck]

As another way of putting it, you can't Llanowar Elves a Deathmark.  However, you can definitely Mana Leak an Autumn's Veil.  Fail.

[BruiZar]

For Reference

[Darkenslight]

As another way of putting it, you can't Llanowar Elves a Deathmark.  However, you can definitely Mana Leak an Autumn's Veil.  Fail.

You've clearly not seen the baiting opportunities this gives.    It forces your opponent to have the counter NOW, and they MUST use this, or they can gribble all over your face.  Can you imagine this in Belcher on turn one?  "Remove Guide for G, Autumn's Veil.  Do you have the double counter?"  That's almost like a Green 'Force of Monkey'.

[DubDub]

As another way of putting it, you can't Llanowar Elves a Deathmark.  However, you can definitely Mana Leak an Autumn's Veil.  Fail.

You've clearly not seen the baiting opportunities this gives.    It forces your opponent to have the counter NOW, and they MUST use this, or they can gribble all over your face.  Can you imagine this in Belcher on turn one?  "Remove Guide for G, Autumn's Veil.  Do you have the double counter?"  That's almost like a Green 'Force of Monkey'.

Okay so then Belcher has to win with five cards, one or more of which may be additional useless Veils.  One is pretty much banking on an appearance by Lotus, Tinker, Wheel, or Timetwister there right?  Oh, and Veil doesn't stop Mindbreak Trap, or the new white Leyline, so it can be hated out rather easily if it ever does become a threat.  (Note that the white leyline is little help if Belcher instead churns out 12+ gobbos.)