[Deck Idea] A Pillar of its Own - Burn with Attitude

[serracollector]

I was just toying with a deck in Legacy, and unfortunately it was not fast enough, BUT (beleive it or not) if has been working fast enough in Vintage.  
The main card of the deck, or type of deck if you will, would be a Pillar deck.  Pyrostatic Pillar to be exact.

In the current meta this is a clock, not a permanent clock, nor a "I win for sure" clock, not by itself at least, but with the amount of Burn available in magic, it becomes absolutely amazing.

First, ofc, the deck list:


Mana: 28
4 Volcanic Island
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
2 Steem Vents
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Great Furnace
10 x SoloMoxen/Crypt/Vault/Petal

Draw: 5
Ancestral
Fact or Fiction
Brainstorm
Gifts Ungiven
Memory Jar

Toys 3
Time Walk
Tinker
DSC

Burn 18
3  Lightning Bolt
3 Psionic Blast
3 Char
3 Flames of the Bloodhand
3 Shrapnel Blast
3 Fireblast

Creatures 3
3 Bloodbraid Elf

The Card 4
4 Pyrostatic Pillar

Sideboard 15
3 Earthquake
3 energy flux
3 nature's claim
3 shattering spree
3 Sower of Temptation


Ok, the first thing I know everyone is going to say is "OMG WTF BLOODBRAID ELF!!!!", yes its t2 trash, or is it?  In this deck its an average of 7 damage (3 from elf, 4 from "insert burn spell").  Under Pillar 7 damage is no joke.
Not to mention the continuos damage it will bring, and it can chump the lodestone.  4 mana is hefty against stax, and stax only in the current meta, thus the high anti mud tech in SB.

As a burn deck, and as a vintage deck most of the cards are "obvious", so I will skip the power, big blue, and most of the burn:

Flames of the Bloodhand - instant, 3 mana, 4 damage, and on RARE occasions, stops that zuran orb or sphinx (yes I will burn before u swing just to stop that 6 life gain).

Shrapnel Blast - Makes mana Vault and Mana Crypt so much easier to play, and they should be anyways.  5 to dome, thats good.

Memory Jar - I included this over wheel and twister just based on the simple, yet very powerful reason, that your opponent does not get to keep the 7 if you don't win that turn.  Too many times I would wheel or twister, and then not win, and my opponent just explode.  

Gifts/Fact - can you name a better draw card? Unfortunately there aren't many, and I would much rather Gifts for Acall, Walk, Tinker, Big Burn, and get 2 than thirst and hope. I originally ran 2 Browbeat, which were sometimes amazing, and sometimes not.  The fact they are sorcery is what kills them, not the drawback of your opponent choosing.  

Sideboard:

Sower of Temptation - simple reason, if I am playing Oath, and they get Iona, they are gonna name RED, and then I steal it.  Other wise, same with terst or Sphinx, mine, mine, mine

Eathquake - 2 mana to kill all goblins?  3 mana to wipe out fish?  Seems good to me.  If I see a rise in Quaddock Teeg decks, I will trade it in for pyroclasm, but for now it fills the critter kill and damage role.  If X is 3 > its not effected by Pillar either.

The rest is MUD hate.  True I have no dredge hate, but in my area/meta, dredge is far and few between, and I might just have to eat the bullet.  Otherwise I would drop 3 Claims for 3....tormod's/relic/ random gy hate.


The deck is simple, the goal is a first turn Pillar, followed by lots of burn.  I play ALL my burn spells EOT, thus leaving me open mana on my turn for w/e I may need, such as a Bloodbraid.

Bloodbraid has proven itself again and again, the worst I have ever gotten was a sol ring or off color mox from him, but even then its amazing.  

I know it may seem this is a pile of trash, but it is so fast, and so unexpected, that most vintage decks don't know wat to do.  Like please spell pierce my Psionic Blast when there is a Pillar in play.  Go ahead draw off that confidant and pop those fetch lands.  With so much damage the average deck does to itself already, have a pillar and 1-2 burn spells is GG.

I am looking for any suggestions, all are welcome, even negative you are n00b ones, because so far in testing on MWS (I only count the tier deck games, oath, tezz, mud etc)  I have been doing really well.  I will post numbers and stats on games after I get a few more under my belt, but out of a dozen or so so far, I have only lost 2 sets of games.  First turn tinker bot stills wins games randomly.  Not much I can do about that.

Thank you, and before you knock it, try it.  

EDIT:  This is mainly a deck trying to break Pyrostatic Pillar.  Against most of the meta this card is a beast.  The burn keeps threats off the board, but I am consistantly losing to MUD, no matter how much SB hate I have.  They win the coin flip its usually game.  Do I NEED to play Force of Will/Spell Pierce in order to fight that first turn sphere?  Is there any other way?

[waffles]

this might be jank for this, but ancient runes or kill switch. a better choice would be running mana accel like simian spirit guide. But you are running  blue, why not run force/pierce? this may work well with trinisphere.

[Daenyth]

I think those would dilute the deck too much. What I'm more concerned about is the mana. You run no basic lands at all, and you have a huge number of 3-drops. MUD seems like it would wreck you. I'd go down to 2 shrapnels, cut a furnace and some other nonbasics, split up the fetch lands a bit, and add 3-4 basics. You should be able to run off that with the low color requirements. Stomping grounds should be wooded foothills, that will help a ton with that. You have no disruption of any kind. How do you handle tezz, or belcher, or dredge? What's your normal clock? Running no disruption at all you really need to be turn 2-3 IMO. If I were playing against this deck, the only card I would fear is pillar, and that gets answered by duress/fow/claim/chain and then I explode in your face.

[serracollector]

Right now if I get a successful Pillar into play,  its a turn 2-3 kill, since most people don't realise i am running the burn tactic, and just drop their moxen/confidants anyways.  Tezz/jace are easy to take care of with the burn.

MUD is my wrecking ball if you will sphere's and wastelands kill me obv.  I want to use basics, but if I throw in even 1 basic island, that hurts fireblast alot.  True I could cut down to 2 shrapnel blast and 2 fireblast, but that drops the threat count alot.  The idea is to get a pillar in play, then every turn afterwards cast at least 1 threat (i.e. burn spell).  I usually finish on turn 4 with either a burn spell + fireblast, or a Braid Elf + Burn spell + fireblast.

Fireblast has been amazing as far as the surprise factor goes.

My biggest problems are simply a first turn Sphere effect or a First turn duress (grabbing a pillar), if pillar is already in play I normally don't worry about what they grab.

I am thinking of running 2 jace and 2 bloodbraid elf, Bloodbraid gives you a free spell, and a minimum of 3 damage due to its haste.  Jace won't give me that damage I need, but can find a burn spell for the next turn to win.

If I were to Play 4 Force of will/4 mana drain or Spell pierce, what 8 cards should I drop?  Honestly I would hate to have mana drain and spell pierce due to the fact they hurt me under pillar, and don't hurt my opponent.

Maybe I am going about this the wrong way and it should be a Stax deck?  Like 4 welder, 4 pillar, 4 smokestack, 4 lodestone, 4 juggernaut, etc etc?  Like meandeck MUD with 4 Pillar to help stop storm even if they EOT hurky'lls? 

Either that or 4 Force of Will, 2 Jace, and 2 Misdirection?

Then against Mud side in 4 Annul, and hope I win the coin flip or have a FOW in opening hand?

I'm not sure, any more help is appreiciated.

[silvernail]

You got a pile of 3cc burn spells and no kiln fiends ( which would be ownage in vintage burn due to lack of blockers). To me it seems like the list would be too slow with the high CC burn.

[ArtOvWar]

Oke that list SUCKS

No offense... But BBE?!!?? Cascade into a mox.. GG..
Like said before me: Kiln fiend. also add wee dragonauts to the mix with burnspells like l. bolt, chain light, shrap blast etc.
Also cantrips like Preordain to boost ur fiend. A recall, timewalk and twister etc... And ofc counter magic and arti bounce.


If a blood moon or Magus of the Moon hits the table ur fucked...

[Tobi]

I like the idea, but I don't understand why you use such a lot of 3cc burn spells. Wouldn't it make more sense to have things like Chain Lighning or other 1/2 cc burns instead?
Also, Shrapnel Blast and Fireblast are a bit dis-synergistic, maybe you should go 4/2 or 2/4 and focus more on one of them, probably ShrapB.

Bloodbraid Elf is a nice one, but costy. Never tested it so I cannot tell how it's impact is. The cascade can do a lot of very funny things and make this guy very effective. And in times where control is switching from Mana Drain to Spell Pierce running it may be a good move.
That said, I think I would play four of them and cut either Gifts or Fact, probably Gifts.
Sensei's Top would be good with the cascade ability so you can have a better control of what will flip. These would also be good to ShrapBlast away.


@ArtOvWar: Magus of the Mood shouldn't be that much of a problem for a burn deck, and even Blood Moon, which is not really played anymore, does not do a lot of harm if your deck consists mostly of red spells.

[serracollector]

I rain chain lightnings at first, but I hated leaving mana tapped during my opponents turn.  You never want them to know what you may or may not have, and want to save burn for EOT.  That way even if they counter it they will hopefully be taking 2 off pillar, and then give you an open turn to finish the job.

Also this might sound silly, but I run the 3 psionic/3 char (I decided to drop the 3 bloodhand, there ability to prevent damage loss was not worth the fact I can't hit creatures with them, this is important sometimes), because chalice for 1-2 are easy, chalice for 3 not so easy, and many aggro mud decks are playing a set of chalices.   Chalice for 0 leaves me Sol Ring and Mana vault as tinker/shrapnel targets, making them almost worthless.  So I need a possible win out of the 3 cc, which I have 24 damage worth, 12 from psionic, 12 from char (theoretically speaking of course).  I mean that makes sense right?  

I have up it to 4 BBE because he is a permanent threat, and a good one.  4 mana for 3 damage and a free card is good even if it is only a mox, one less you have to draw. Also, and I am not clear on this, but the way cascade reads, it says "when you cast this" not "when this is successfully caste", so does cascade occur even if its countered?  If so this card is abosolutely amazing, as its gonna get one of you spells out clean almost every time.  If not eh, he is still beastly.

Kiln Fiend is interesting, but too slow.  Like I said I want to cast my stuff EOT so I can surprise an opponent after he rips a fetchland, and gets me that 1 life pt I need to win, or so they think I have a counterspell, its red and blue wat would you think?  Most ppl see a trop and expect oath, or tezz, not Burn my face off in 4 turns or less.  

I cast a kiln fiend, i then miss out on a turn I could of burned, then next turn I have to caste my instants during main phase to pump this guy and hope he dont get chumped by a confidant.  If BBE gets chumped by confidant, I still got CA out of it, as it replaced itself with something significant, whether it be 3-4 damage to the opponent or another mana source/shrapnel blast piece.  BBE has saved me many a game, and I think it is because of the increase in snare and pierce.  

Also I added 2 jace.  I might make it 1 jace, and 1 top and try it out, but jace dont burn me under Pillar, so not sure yet, TOP might go SB vs MUD since it will be easier to play than jace????
Jace has been absolutely amazing tho, whether to bounce the confidant or fish fodder thats got dropped under Pillar, or to draw me into the burn that much faster, he is amazing.   Casting jace turn 2-3 with moxen, then BBE turn 3-4 is just ridiculous.  By this time you have already done 10+ damage, and probably found the fireblast for the 5th turn swing and blast.  

The deck has been running amazing now that I have made these changes.

So pretty much
- 4 Hand
- 1 Fireblast (3 was too much anyways, even with the 2 life duals.)
- 1 Shrapnel Blast (being artifact driven even with 12+ artifacts is bad sometimes)
+1 BBE
+2 Jace
+1 Char
+1 Psionic Blast
+1 Lightning Bolt

or +2 chain lightning/Incinerate? and just stay with 3 char/3 psionic?  That would lower the avg CC a lot.  But three mana hasn't been a problem to get too even with a Wasteland or 2.

This has been working great for me so far.  As I said tho I might trade 1 jace for top, but it depends on meta I would think.  If your in a bob-tezz field/fish/oath meta then you would want jace, because of his utility, not just his draw.  But against MUD, you want TOP since its cheaper, and keeps you in the permanents race better.

Any other suggestions please continue, I am really having fun with this deck, and outside of MUD based decks I seriously haven't had any problems with the mana base.  The occasional null rod isn't a problem either with my anti-MUD sideboard.

[silvernail]

Klin Fiend too slow? Land mox fiend. 2 1cc burn spells on turn two plus a fire blast = 20 damage on turn 2. It kills in two turns in a solid burn deck, which is just as fast as most creatures or faster.

[Delha]

I rain chain lightnings at first, but I hated leaving mana tapped during my opponents turn.  You never want them to know what you may or may not have, and want to save burn for EOT.  That way even if they counter it they will hopefully be taking 2 off pillar, and then give you an open turn to finish the job.

I think you're trying too hard to be clever. The first time you cast a burn spell to the dome, they know what your game plan is. If Bolt someone on turn one, it's a pretty stupid opponent who gets surprised by your turn three Char.

...because chalice for 1-2 are easy, chalice for 3 not so easy, and many aggro mud decks are playing a set of chalices.

MUD often runs 4xChalice, yes. MUD pretty much ALWAYS runs 12 sphere effects (ignoring Trini), which is far worse for you than Chalice anyway. You are crippling your Plan A to incorporate a weak Plan B. If you need an answer to Chalice game 1, run a couple Shattering Spree main. Actually, I'd do that regardless. It means you don't just autoscoop if they assemble T2 Key/Vault, and lets you randomly nuke someone's board if they were heavily dependent on jewelry in their opener.

I have up it to 4 BBE because he is a permanent threat, and a good one.  4 mana for 3 damage and a free card is good even if it is only a mox, one less you have to draw. Also, and I am not clear on this, but the way cascade reads, it says "when you cast this" not "when this is successfully caste", so does cascade occur even if its countered?  If so this card is abosolutely amazing, as its gonna get one of you spells out clean almost every time.  If not eh, he is still beastly.

Next time I'd recommend you just do your basic research instead of saying asking. If you Google "mtg cascade", the second link points towards Cascade on the MtG Salvation Wiki. It tells you right there that countering the original spell does not stop the cascade. It probably took me less time to find that backup than it took you to type that you didn't know it.

I think you have a skewed vision of what is "good" in Vintage. Four mana for six damage is just not efficient enough, and three mana for three damage (if you hit a mox) is even worse. Consider that your opponent is tapping two mana sources for Golem/Iona/Terastodon, and three for Sphinx/DSC/Inky, all of which far outclass a hasty 3/2.

Also, cutting green lets you just run 1-2x Volcanic, 1xIsland, then keeping the rest of your lands as Mountains/Fetches. This is a huge help against MUD and Fish, which are probably two of your worst matchups right now.

Kiln Fiend is interesting, but too slow.  Like I said I want to cast my stuff EOT so I can surprise an opponent after he rips a fetchland, and gets me that 1 life pt I need to win, or so they think I have a counterspell, its red and blue wat would you think?  Most ppl see a trop and expect oath, or tezz, not Burn my face off in 4 turns or less.

I have up it to 4 BBE because he is a permanent threat, and a good one.  4 mana for 3 damage and a free card is good even if it is only a mox, one less you have to draw. Also, and I am not clear on this, but the way cascade reads, it says "when you cast this" not "when this is successfully caste", so does cascade occur even if its countered?  If so this card is abosolutely amazing, as its gonna get one of you spells out clean almost every time.  If not eh, he is still beastly.

Kiln Fiend is interesting, but too slow.  Like I said I want to cast my stuff EOT so I can surprise an opponent after he rips a fetchland, and gets me that 1 life pt I need to win, or so they think I have a counterspell, its red and blue wat would you think?  Most ppl see a trop and expect oath, or tezz, not Burn my face off in 4 turns or less. 

I cast a kiln fiend, i then miss out on a turn I could of burned, then next turn I have to caste my instants during main phase to pump this guy and hope he dont get chumped by a confidant.  If BBE gets chumped by confidant, I still got CA out of it, as it replaced itself with something significant, whether it be 3-4 damage to the opponent or another mana source/shrapnel blast piece.

As before, only an idiot will be surprised by the third or fourth burn spell you play. Anyone even remotely skilled will understand that your deck includes burn and try to manage their life accordingly. The inefficiency of burn you've chosen suggests that you'll often just lose before you have time to cast enough of them. Fiend is a huge help with this, since every Bolt effect doubles. If they've got Confidant down, why would you dome them, then allow the chump? Nuke their guy, and swing against his open board.

[The Atog Lord]

If you are running a burn deck, and are afraid of MUD, why not just run Pulverize? Also, three mana burn spells are not going to be fast enough. If you actually want to burn out your opponent, then you'll need more low drops. Smash to Smitereens is probably the best solution to Chalice for One that you can main deck.

[swawagon]

Rolling Earthquake also hits fliers.

[Killane]

Rolling Earthquake also hits fliers.

And costs $100. I can think of many many better cards to spend $100 than a Niche card for an bareely playable archetype.

[RecklessEmbermage]

As long as your list looks like this, there's not really much to recommend other than: Play the good burn spells!

After you got 4 bolt and 4 chain lightning and cut all the unplayables (bloodbraid, char, psi blast, fof, flames, etc) we can talk about tuning this. Flames of the blood hand is borderline playable in a monored list, but with blue draw it becomes even more important to keep the cc of your cards down, to take advantage of your draw.

Smash to smithereens is playable as a four-of in the main if the meta does not dictate otherwise.

Cutting bloodbraid and nature's claim lets you drop green. Right now you look needlessly open to mana disruption. What do you need claim for anyway? Against oath, I'd run greater gargadon.

[serracollector]

Ok, I won't disagree with most of the points said, I know the deck is a long shot, but it COULD and DID have its many wins. 

So if your talking this as a base

4 x Chain
4 x Bolt
4 x Pillar
4 x Kiln Fiend
1 x Acall
1 x Time Walk
1 x Brainstorm
2 x Psionic (this card is still amazing to me)
1 x Tinker
1 x Tinkerbot
1 x Mystical
10 x SoloMoxen/cryot/petal/vault
2-3 x Shrapnel Blast
2-3 Fireblast

What can I use in the other slots to
A) be synergistic with Pillar

and

B) be synergistic with Killn?

This is where my problem lies.  I don't want to add subpar instants like Preordain and Ponder to pump up Kiln, but be totally bad with pillar.  Getting a first turn Pillar and sitting with Ponder and Preordian in your hand is a bad thing.

The deck has to be quick enough, but still manage to not kill itself under a Pillar.  This is a problem because to be quick you need low CC spells, but to work with Pillar it needs to either do more damage than the 2 dealt to you, or it has to cost 4 + mana.  Those slots pretty much only count....Jace, BBE (if i stay with green), and "crap" cards such as Seeker and its red variant.  Mind you seeker + Pillar "could" be good together since ppeople might hold cards, but at that point Black vise would be better.  Maybe black vise belongs in this deck.....

anyways, thats my problem with Kiln, its costs under 3, so I get hit under pillar, and he does nothing for 1 turn, at least my burn gets thru that turn. 

Smash to smithereens could be very viable.  Everyone plays power in my meta, so moxen are bountiful, as the very least smithereens targets.

Also fire and ice, even tho its a 2 damage for 2 damage deal under pillar, just gives me access to tapping a DSC or Sphinx, giving me a 2 life "time walk" if you will.

The only counters you would want to run would be 4 x FoW and 1-2 misdirection, or god forbid, Foil, since there CC is +4 and thus doesn't hurt you under pillar.

Going u/r is probably the best route, and I will test it out, but really I did like BBE.  Its better than most of you probably think, but probably just as bad as some of you say.  From my playtesting he seemed pretty good, but I haven't tested nearly as much as I would like.

Please continue with help, and even if the deck list totally changes that is fine, I just want to make a FAST pillar build, pillar is so good against the current meta there has to be some way to make it viable, has to be.

[Delha]

Kiln IS the answer to cheap burn hurting you under Pillar. In this deck, Kiln Fiend is essentially a 2 mana Furnace of Rath that only affects the opponent. It increases the efficiency of all your spells, and helps ensure that every time you dome the opponent, you gain that much more of a life lead.

Chandra's Spitfire is probably worth testing as Kiln Fiend 5+. Staggershock might be cute. Probably not worth it though. Reckless Charge is definitely cute, but probably too reliant on Kiln Fiend.

Look at this line of play under Pillar:
Kiln: You -2, Opp -0
Bolt, Bolt, swing: You -6, Opp -13

[serracollector]

Ok, your are 100% correct, I was goldfishing with a new build, and it has been much faster, and way more reliant.  Unfortunately my MWS isn't connecting for some reason, so I haven't gotten to play it against anyone.


4 x Kiln
4 x Lightning Bolt
2 x Fire/Ice
4 x Pillar
2 x Fireblast
1 x Tinker
1 x Sphinx
3 x Shrapnel Blast
3 x Smash to smithereens
3 x Vexing Shusher (making fireblast and ancestral uncounterable is very nice.)
1 x time Walk
1 x Acall
1 x M.tutor
1 x Jace TMS
1 x Memory Jar
1 x Brainstorm
4 x Volcanic
4 x Steam Vents
4 x Scalding tarn
1 x great furnace
1 x seat of synod
2 x island
1 x mountain
10 solomoxen/crypt/vault/petal

SB:
3 x Sower
3 x Earthquake
3 x Tormod's Crypt
3 x Shattering Spree
3 x Energy Flux


removed green and BBE, added Kilns, and some more utility with fire/ice,  jace, and vexing shusher,

first or 2nd turn shusher follwed by about anything is good.

Still packing lots of MUD hate, and Sower for Oath, Earthquake and sower for Fish, crypt for w/e gy deck.  Looking better?  Its playing better.

[Tobi]

Shusher is also a very nice solution to the Chalice problem, and he could make Reckless Charge playable. Still, RL is too situational. If you used BBE however... 
What also comes to mind is Lava Dart, that combos nicely with Kiln, but is probably too narrow to use. Nice solution to opposing Confidants though.

Since you don't run any costly spells anymore, you could adjust your manabase a bit, removing Sol Ring, Petal and Mana Crypt and add more Great Furnaces, so your artifact count doesn't drop too low. This also helps the high red mana requirements of Shusher.
Other option is to drop Petal and Crypt only and replace them with 2 Sensei's Top. These help smooth out draws and can still be ShrapBlasted or Tinkered away. 27 mana seems to be a bit too much.

And one comment on the sideboard: E-Flux is a good tool against MUD, but may hurt you as well. Rack and Ruin costs the same and in most cases has the same impact on the game, if not better.

[ArtOvWar]

And one comment on the sideboard: E-Flux is a good tool against MUD, but may hurt you as well. Rack and Ruin costs the same and in most cases has the same impact on the game, if not better.

MUD/WS Aggro has NO way of getting rid of Flux. It is infy better than R&R since R&R hits only two artifacts. Flux can whipe a whole board out.


@ Serra
Also get a more stable mana base. Why the hell would you run Shockduals? MUD and Fish eat you alive with that mana base.
I wont even start on Sui.  Waste ur dual, Pate on it. Then what? Ur gonna sit in a corner and cry? MUD, Fish, Sui, RG Beats etc all run Null Rod. Looky! More mana denial vs you. Waste+Rod kills you. And guess what the decks i mention run both. There is no way in hell that list is gonna work on a tournament. MUD sees alot of play. You cant put pressure on Storm etc...

I suggest you build a better deck then this Pile O Jank.

[MaximumCDawg]

Why the hell would you run Shockduals?

$$$, of course.  Underground Sea is up to what now, $80?  Shocklands are a totally acceptable budget alternative.

Seriously, the shocklands are not that bad.  I've only got a singleton of some critical dual lands, like Tropical Island and Underground Sea, and I make up the difference in my deck with Shocklands.  I don't think the shock damage has ever made a difference.  Having a singleton to fetch up with your fetchlands is crucial, so that you can avoid damage in most matches, but by the time you need to fetch your second dual, having a shockland is hella better than not having the second dual at all.

NINJA EDIT : I understand your point; that the OP should run basics after his full set of duals.  That's very true.  But it's not the Shockland's fault, is what I'm sayin.

[madmanmike25]

MUD/WS Aggro has NO way of getting rid of Flux. It is infy better than R&R since R&R hits only two artifacts. Flux can whipe a whole board out.

As a MUD player for many years, I'm honestly more worried about cards like R&R and Grudge than E.Flux.  Seeing as how Tangles are all around, you CAN'T respond to Tanglewire trigger by casting E.Flux, you CAN however respond with the instant speed R&R and take out 2 threats.  By the way, some select MUD players still run Metalworker who bitchslaps Energy Flux all night long.  I find it hard to trump instant speed removal.

I suggest you build a better deck then this Pile O Jank.

Maybe Debbie Downer can offer more constructive advice than this?

It does seem like this is the most unlikely Tinker deck ever though.  Personally I would have stuck with green for Hull Breach and/or Claim maindeck and the AWESOME anti-MUD card Artifact Mutation for sb.  Tin Street Hooligan is also worthy.

It's odd you run Memory Jar (Tinker target, I know) and not Wheel of Fortune.  Same cc, just saying.  Also I think a 2/2 Fireblast and Shrapnel Blast split is sufficient.  They are kinda 'closer' cards that require precious resources you can't afford to squander early game so you don't really want to see them that often.

If you do stick with blue, you have better and cheaper options than Flux.  Try Chain/Hurks/Rebuild.  Note that Chain of Vapor has more applications.
 
Good luck,
Mike

[ArtOvWar]

MUD/WS Aggro has NO way of getting rid of Flux. It is infy better than R&R since R&R hits only two artifacts. Flux can whipe a whole board out.

As a MUD player for many years, I'm honestly more worried about cards like R&R and Grudge than E.Flux.  Seeing as how Tangles are all around, you CAN'T respond to Tanglewire trigger by casting E.Flux, you CAN however respond with the instant speed R&R and take out 2 threats.  By the way, some select MUD players still run Metalworker who bitchslaps Energy Flux all night long.  I find it hard to trump instant speed removal.

I suggest you build a better deck then this Pile O Jank.

Maybe Debbie Downer can offer more constructive advice than this?

It does seem like this is the most unlikely Tinker deck ever though.  Personally I would have stuck with green for Hull Breach and/or Claim maindeck and the AWESOME anti-MUD card Artifact Mutation for sb.  Tin Street Hooligan is also worthy.

It's odd you run Memory Jar (Tinker target, I know) and not Wheel of Fortune.  Same cc, just saying.  Also I think a 2/2 Fireblast and Shrapnel Blast split is sufficient.  They are kinda 'closer' cards that require precious resources you can't afford to squander early game so you don't really want to see them that often.

If you do stick with blue, you have better and cheaper options than Flux.  Try Chain/Hurks/Rebuild.  Note that Chain of Vapor has more applications.
 
Good luck,
Mike

You never saw the european lists i bet. Here they run a set of rods and CotVs.. Ive tested 20 games vs Marske yesterday and i was able to play around flux once. Shop cant pay mana for it. TPS runs a shitload of mana accel so that flux easily hits the table. Even when theres a wire. If you dont got a CotV, Rod or Sphere-effect out they can go land mox mox flux... GL on that one.

Why the hell would you run Shockduals?

$$$, of course.  Underground Sea is up to what now, $80?  Shocklands are a totally acceptable budget alternative.

Seriously, the shocklands are not that bad.  I've only got a singleton of some critical dual lands, like Tropical Island and Underground Sea, and I make up the difference in my deck with Shocklands.  I don't think the shock damage has ever made a difference.  Having a singleton to fetch up with your fetchlands is crucial, so that you can avoid damage in most matches, but by the time you need to fetch your second dual, having a shockland is hella better than not having the second dual at all.

NINJA EDIT : I understand your point; that the OP should run basics after his full set of duals.  That's very true.  But it's not the Shockland's fault, is what I'm sayin.

He runs a set of Volcs and Taigas. Why would you need those 2 in shockland version then? His mana base gets killed to easy now. Fish, Mud and Sui destroy the mana base like godzilla wrecking a town.

[serracollector]

4 x Kiln
4 x Lightning Bolt
2 x Fire/Ice
4 x Pillar
2 x Fireblast
1 x Tinker
1 x Sphinx
3 x Shrapnel Blast
3 x Smash to smithereens
3 x Vexing Shusher (making fireblast and ancestral uncounterable is very nice.)
1 x time Walk
1 x Acall
1 x M.tutor
1 x Jace TMS
1 x Memory Jar
1 x Brainstorm
4 x Volcanic
4 x Steam Vents
4 x Scalding tarn
1 x great furnace
1 x seat of synod
2 x island
1 x mountain
10 solomoxen/crypt/vault/petal

SB:
3 x Sower
3 x Earthquake
3 x Tormod's Crypt
3 x Shattering Spree
3 x Energy Flux

This is the new decklist I am working on, taiga's and BBE's are out.

As far as null rod is concerned, remember I play 3 Smash to Smithereens Main deck. So unless they drop a turn 1 Null Rod, then a turn 2 Chalice for 2, meaning no sphere affects for them, I think I will be ok G1.  I would drop mana vault before sol ring, but the fast mana is needed so you can cast multiple spells at a time.  The deck isn't built like tezz to drop 1 bomb a turn, and just control, this deck is aggro and wants to run along the lines of Land Mox Kiln, turn 2 Smash/Bolt/Fireblast swing ftw.

Even under Pillar you want to just continuosly drop spells to do damage asap.


Sideboard I have 3 shattering spree, and 3 energy flux, this gives me 9 anti mud spells, which cost 1, 2, and 3 mana.  If I side in the 3 energy flux its to replace the 3 shrapnel blasts.  Then I just win with a few unblocked Kiln/Shushers. 

Chalice wasn't even considered when I added shusher, shusher has been used to stop spell pierce, and FoW, and Drain from stopping Kiln or Pillar mainly.

27 mana sources may be too much, but with jace, ancestral, brainstorm, and 2 fire/ice (if I have a Kiln in play I usually use Ice to tap thier blocker/land, to pump Kiln and hopefully draw into a better burn spell), I haven't had a problem drawing into threats, since other than those draw cards, and time walk, the entire deck is threats.

I explained earlier I play Jar over wheel/twister for 2 reasons:

1) its a 2nd tinker target

2) you opponent does not get to keep the 7 cards they draw.  After your turn they chuck them, while under a wheel or twister, they keep the 7, and if you don't win, they DO.

The deck has been doing quite well so far, and IF I were to add another damage spell it would be 1 Fling before 1 reckless abandon.  Pump a Kiln to 7-10 power, swing, then fling is not a bad thing.  And playing 1 fling shouldn't be too shabby.  Heck I would fling my tinker bot if needed.  lol.

[meadbert]

MUD/WS Aggro has NO way of getting rid of Flux. It is infy better than R&R since R&R hits only two artifacts. Flux can whipe a whole board out.

As a MUD player for many years, I'm honestly more worried about cards like R&R and Grudge than E.Flux.  Seeing as how Tangles are all around, you CAN'T respond to Tanglewire trigger by casting E.Flux, you CAN however respond with the instant speed R&R and take out 2 threats.  By the way, some select MUD players still run Metalworker who bitchslaps Energy Flux all night long.  I find it hard to trump instant speed removal.

What it gets back to is "Wipe a whole board out."
The problem is if they have a "whole board" to wipe out the probability of having the mana to pay for Flux approaches 0.
Instead Flux is more likely to hit before they have a board.  It is powerful at this point, but basically they must play with only a few lock components out which ideally is what you are trying to limit them to anyway.  Basically your counters cease to matter much since they are limited by how many lock components they can pay for on upkeep instead of how many they can resolve.
Rack & Ruin synergizes with counterspells better since you use it on what slips through and counter the rest.


EDIT: Ankh of Mishra can be good with Pillars.  Make them pay 5 life to get mana out of a Fetch land.

[Delha]

I still think you should run more basics. How often to you tend to need UU? Two Islands, a three Volcanic, and Fetches + Mountains should be plenty. Why don't you test it out? Remember that every time you play against Fish or MUD, running basics makes you LESS vulnerable to color screw than running duals.

[TopSecret]

Price of Progress is totally key. Where is the PoP at?

Splashing black for Undermine and Counter Squall (and BLIGHTNING?) might not be bad either. Playing Dark Confidant and/or Sygg, River Cutthroat may also be worth it. If you play a good mix of burn and creatures, Bloodchief Ascension may become good.

Also, would Colossus be a better Tinker target than Sphinx since you could more easily burn for the win with the extra damage?

You probably want to kill the opponent uber fast or kill them slowly. If you pick some kind of middle road, you're probably in trouble since you have to blow cards on direct damage while the opponent does not or play cards that are more expensive because they have an effect plus burn.

[serracollector]

hmmm....if I went with 3 Volcanics, 2 island, 6 mountain, and 4-6 fetches, then POP could be possible.  But what to replace?  maybe 1 shrapnel blast and 2 POP?  and drop the 2 artifact lands for basic lands?

I don't want to add black because:

1) Confidant takes away life from you, under Pillar, you need to keep your life ahead of theirs or your gonna lock yourself out.

2) Confidant does not work well with fireblast or Tinker targets (jar/bot) and I don't want to HAVE to play top and Ponder to stabalize this.

3) It makes the mana base even less stable against MUD.


I play Sphinx for 3 reasons over DSC

1) If I tinker DSC, then they Tinker DSC its a standoff.

2) Sphinx can give me life under Pillar, and pillar makes like more a utility than a Necro (maybe bad example but I hope it gets the point across).

3) Sphinx can fly over Terst, Goyf, DSC, and any blocker to get to a Jace or Tezz. Also it can block trygon's which are growing in number in decks every day. Oh, and it can't be Nature's Claimed, another growing card in the current meta.



I was thinking of possible making some "super" aggro deck involving a mix of Ankh's, Pillars, and Black Vise....it would be fun, but drawing a late game Pillar or Black vise is bad, I have yet had a bad time to cast Pillar (unless I already got the game won with burn in hand etc).

That doesn't mean a deck like that isn't possible tho, with Anks, Pillars, Black Vise, Lodestones and w/e else, but I think thats more of a Stax build than my kind of deck.

[RecklessEmbermage]

To accomodate for price of progress while making the mana more resilient to disruption, just cut great furnace, seat of the synod and all 4 steam vents for 2 red fetches, 2 blue fetches and 2 mountains. You end up with 15 solid blue sources where 1 is mox and 8 are "basic island" and 16 solid red sources where 1 is mox and 9 are "basic mountain". You could of course play 2 more basics and still have good enough access to both colours, but the fetches are good with your draw and brainstorm.

Like MMMike mentioned earlier, wheel of fortune looks like an easy fit here. It plays nice with fiends and does not put strains on your manabase like jar does. I'd cut jar for it. 5 mana is a lot to ask. You cannot expect to resolve it against decks playing mana disruption.

I'm sceptical about jace too. He costs so much mana (including double blue) that you should have some way of protecting him when you cast him. 3 shushers seems a bit thin. I'd cut jace, but keep shushers around too protect your less expensive, yet bomby cards.

If you cack off the top of your curve like this (it ends at 3 without jar and jace), you can drop manavault and sol ring and maybe mana crypt and have 4 spots for price of progress. If that leaves you with too few artifacts (I wouldn't think so) you can cut one shrapnel blast and be fine. Less mana, more burn.

[beder]

Well, if I were to play a burn deck, I think I would build it in Green/Red and around the following cards :
- Kiln Fiend
- Tarmogoyf (which is an effective continuous burn)
- Pyrostatic pillar
- Ancient grudge
- Lightening

and.....

- Berserk!!!

I think i would try something as stupid and simple as this build, which I guess could definitely be improved but should already be quite brutal :

// Lands x15
    4 Wooded Foothills
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Misty Rainforest
    3 Taiga
    2 Mountain
    1 Forest

    2 Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
    4 Spark Elemental
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Kiln Fiend

    4 Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Lotus Petal

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Price of Progress

    4 Pyrostatic Pillar

    4 Ancient Grudge

    4 Berserk
    1 Regrowth

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I definitely think that berserk and kiln friend have something to do together :
- One berserk directly on a kiln friend => 8/2 trample
- One burn spell and one berserk on a kiln friend => 3 damage & a 16/2 trample (should be sufficent )

Even a berserk on a tarmo can win you a turn.

[madmanmike25]

Now that looks like an old school R/G deck.  I like that list but I think Hellspark Elemental should be tested instead of Spark Elemental merely because even though its 2 mana, its 2 cards in 1 for 6 damage total if it gets through.  I would also test out Hooligan in the Grudge slot merely because it leaves behind continuous damage.  But since Grudge is also like 2 cards in 1 its debatable.

Price of Progress was a good suggestion in a deck that runs zero strip effects.  Seems great with Kiln and the whole 'Pillar' theme.  Also note that if for some reason you decided to add Magus of the Moon, PoP still counts them as non basic mountains.  Tarmogoyf seems like a good choice too.

I would still run Sol Ring with all the Sphere effects around.  +1 mana this turn and +2 mana every turn after is just too good.

4 Beserks seem like too much, if it even should be included at all.  It reminds me of all-in cards like Fireblast and Shrapnel Blast.  They are cards you want to hit a little later and not really see multiples in your opening 7.

With Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning, Lodestone (and Juggs) become 4cc Lightning rods.  Should help.