Possible to break Hunting Grounds?

[Sextiger]

This card has been in the back of my mind forever and I'm wondering if now is a time to really use it.  With all the graveyard hate coming at Drudge this days, a dedicated Hunting Grounds deck is pretty stupid but I don't see why you couldn't just build this into a Aggro or Fish deck of some sort and come out pretty well.  Being useless without Threshold is a big deal but once you get it, it seems kinda hard to lose when your just dropping all your creatures for free.  

Quick ideas
1. Bazaar to feed graveyard
2. Using the good cycle creatures such as Ingot for utility and to later just drop off a Hunting Grounds trigger
3. Survival of the Fittest might work out alright to fetch some big boys
4. If using enough artifacts, could easily just run a Tinker target or two which could possibly be dropped for free off Hunting Grounds


Edit: Please move this to Creative if its a better fit

[BruiZar]

I've been eyeballing this since Sword of Body and Mind for legacy. I don't see this in vintage, but legacy, sure.

[DubDub]

I've been eyeballing this since Sword of Body and Mind for legacy. I don't see this in vintage, but legacy, sure.

How does the new Sword help?  Doesn't the defending player have to do the milling?

[Troy_Costisick]

Quick ideas
1. Bazaar to feed graveyard
2. Using the good cycle creatures such as Ingot for utility and to later just drop off a Hunting Grounds trigger
3. Survival of the Fittest might work out alright to fetch some big boys
4. If using enough artifacts, could easily just run a Tinker target or two which could possibly be dropped for free off Hunting Grounds

If you're going to use Bazaar to feed the graveyard, at least play Riftstone Portal so you can tap the Bazaar for mana when you want to cast this thing.  Also, using lots of fetchlands will help fuel your Thresh.  As for the getting creatures in play, I might run Worldly Tutor, Top, and Emrakul/Iona/Terastadon So you can tutor, draw, and play your guy in one fell swoop.

I think this deck would be horrendously inferior to Oath, but it does look like fun.  BruiZar does have a point that it might be better in Legacy.

[Delha]

A friend of mine used to run Mystic Snake and Clone in a Hunting Grounds deck, which was pretty amusing. Just throwing it out there.

[TopSecret]

Playing decent Evoke creatures doesn't sound too bad, but the problem then is that you're playing utility evoke creatures and it's hard to have a good deck with those in it. Maybe you could try to revamp the Canadian Elementals deck that was floating around a while ago to add this card.

I don't think this card would be good in a typical fish deck because you won't get that many creatures into play by the time this comes online. AEther Vial might be better to consider for fish, although it does get hit by Null Rod.

But if you had some kind of control-ish deck that played fatties, like Survival or something, this might be decent. The problem then is why this card would be better than Oath if you're playing something control-ish with fatties.

This might be a dumb idea, but you could try putting this in some kind of dredge deck and then Dredge back Gravetrolls into hand and then drop them into play. I don't know why that would be good.

[Wagner]

Playing decent Evoke creatures doesn't sound too bad, but the problem then is that you're playing utility evoke creatures and it's hard to have a good deck with those in it. Maybe you could try to revamp the Canadian Elementals deck that was floating around a while ago to add this card.

The elementals deck didn't really play that many evokes, and most of all, didn't play white NOR green. But good try

[Guli]

You need to get lots of cards in your graveyard at the same time you need to successfully cast HG. And while getting cards in graveyard you also need the creatures in your hand (you need cards in your hand). How are you going to do that with green white at a relatively fast speed?

[DubDub]

I did not know this card existed before this thread (which is relatively rare), and I definitely think it has potential... in Legacy.  I've paired Hunting Grounds up with Show and Tell in a Bant shell with Noble Hierarchs for acceleration, and will definitely be giving this a shot at the next local tournament.  I like that both Hunting Grounds and Show and Tell rely on creatures in hand, which removes some of the tension between reanimation and Show and Tell.

Intuition is a powerful tutor here, filling the graveyard while finding 3x Hunting Grounds/Show and Tell, 3x Brainstorm, 3x Swords, 3x Force of Will or 3x Fattie etc.  The only problem with the Intuition route is that you can't profitably Intuition up Emrakul (because you'll lose threshold if he goes to the graveyard).  I can't wait to attack with an exalted Sphinx of the Steel Wind, or Progenitus etc.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

[Troy_Costisick]

Intuition is a powerful tutor here, filling the graveyard while finding 3x Hunting Grounds/Show and Tell, 3x Brainstorm, 3x Swords, 3x Force of Will or 3x Fattie etc.  The only problem with the Intuition route is that you can't profitably Intuition up Emrakul (because you'll lose threshold if he goes to the graveyard).

Do Terastadon or Woodfall Primus instead.

[DubDub]

Intuition is a powerful tutor here, filling the graveyard while finding 3x Hunting Grounds/Show and Tell, 3x Brainstorm, 3x Swords, 3x Force of Will or 3x Fattie etc.  The only problem with the Intuition route is that you can't profitably Intuition up Emrakul (because you'll lose threshold if he goes to the graveyard).

Do Terastadon or Woodfall Primus instead.

Well, I'm testing 7 fatties, so that leaves comfortable room for 2x Emrakul and the ability to Intuition up a fattie if need be.

2x Emrakul
1x It that Betrays (this thing is ridiculous, fetchlands, Wastelands, Sword of the Meek combo, plus the Annihilator synergy)
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Progenitus
1x Inkwell Leviathan

I think the Inkwell should be a second It that Betrays.

[urweak]

Seems like Dawn of the Dead, or a interpretation of it could play that. With both Bazaar of Baghdad and Riftstone Portal in there, this seems like a perfect fit.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=40555.0

[sorcutt]

This seems like a really cool card to break, however, it's more conditional than Hypergenisis, and that doesn't even see too much play in legacy. 

[DubDub]

So I was thinking about this today.  Can anyone get behind a fatty plan of:
4x Grozoth
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Blazing Archon

That plan makes Show and Tell horrible, but Hunting Grounds amazing, since part of the problem is drawing the right mix of creatures and cheat-spells.  Having a bunch of 9/9 walls isn't the greatest, especially against Merfolk who can Islandwalk on by, but Iona's and Archon's abilities pretty much end the game so....  This also improves the Intuition for fatties plan, since 3x Grozoth allows you to still find an additional 1x Grozoth, 1x Iona, 1x Archon, 1x Inky.

[Delha]

Interesting. I'm not about to make a call on the quality of the creature package, but I like it conceptually.

[Troy_Costisick]

So I was thinking about this today.  Can anyone get behind a fatty plan of:
4x Grozoth
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Blazing Archon

That plan makes Show and Tell horrible, but Hunting Grounds amazing, since part of the problem is drawing the right mix of creatures and cheat-spells.  Having a bunch of 9/9 walls isn't the greatest, especially against Merfolk who can Islandwalk on by, but Iona's and Archon's abilities pretty much end the game so....  This also improves the Intuition for fatties plan, since 3x Grozoth allows you to still find an additional 1x Grozoth, 1x Iona, 1x Archon, 1x Inky.

Bringer of the Blue Dawn fits in nicely and draws you a ton of cards the longer it stays out.

[DubDub]

Grozoth actually doesn't completely ruin the Show and Tell plan, since you can transmute it for whichever of the 'good' fatties you're looking for.  Probably slows Show and Tell for a 'good' fatty down by a turn.  Can also contribute to threshold through the transmute ability, though that seems horrendous.  It's too bad that WotC has pushed fatties so much that Sphinx and Hellkite (and the new M11 Stormtide Leviathan) *only* cost 8.

[madmanmike25]

Someone already mentioned fetchlands to get threshold going, but what about Crop Rotation?  Yes, yes if it gets countered blah blah blah...but if it doesnt you can run Loam, which also happens to dredge (faster threshold) and gives the deck resilience AND a Strip Mine lock.

Horizon Canopy seems nice for mid game draw with that engine.  May as well add Fastbond.

This kind of deck may want Qasali and/or Teeg for early control.

Maybe a few Squees to go along with Bazaar, you don't always have to return them if you need threshold though.  Squee also works lovely with Survival/Fauna Shaman.  Maybe 1 copy of Eternal Witness too.

This kind of deck would have to include LOTS of castable creatures or you are just pissing in the wind as well as playing MuchWorseThanOath.dec.  I really don't see being able to run more than 4 uncastable creatures since you won't always get this card out or online.  Don't make the deck suck without Hunting Grounds.

Good luck,
Mike

[desolutionist]

If *needing* hunting grounds becomes an issue, you could play glittering wish

[RecklessEmbermage]

Some kind of midrange deck with mana denial (like new horizons, but probably dropping blue to play colourless sources) including some of the suggestions given thus far could function decently.

4 wasteland
4 bazaar
4 riftstone portal (better than duals if you got bazaar. Is it crazy to play 4?)
2-3 crop rotation
1 strip
fetches, basics and duals
3-4 null rods
4 knight of the reliquary
4 qasali pridemage
2-4 woodfall primus

You could go crazy and play welders and sundering titans.

[policehq]

Some kind of midrange deck with mana denial (like new horizons, but probably dropping blue to play colourless sources) including some of the suggestions given thus far could function decently.

4 wasteland
4 bazaar
4 riftstone portal (better than duals if you got bazaar. Is it crazy to play 4?)
2-3 crop rotation
1 strip
fetches, basics and duals
3-4 null rods
4 knight of the reliquary
4 qasali pridemage
2-4 woodfall primus

You could go crazy and play welders and sundering titans.

You would have to play Squee in that list, or you wouldn't have creatures in hand to abuse with Hunting Grounds. That said, a reanimate spell is probably better than Hunting Grounds for getting a fat disruptive creature in play.

[RecklessEmbermage]

You would have to play Squee in that list, or you wouldn't have creatures in hand to abuse with Hunting Grounds. That said, a reanimate spell is probably better than Hunting Grounds for getting a fat disruptive creature in play.

Squee or life from the loam are probably the best options. Hunting grounds isn't beaten as badly by counters as reanimation, since you can play it at any time. One hunting ground and an active bazaar go a long way in winning the game even if the opponent is chock full of creature removal and any counters he or she draws would be pretty much blank.

The list should probably include 4 goyf, 1 karakas and some maindeck nature's claim for leylines and oaths. Aven mindcensor would help against tinker and further the mana-denial theme. Eternal witness can be hardcast to get back hunting grounds or provide for valuable CA and flexibility later in the game.

Seems like this could be pretty strong against shops, due to high density of artifact disruption and few spells cast.

It could be interesting to side out null rods for mox diamond or the other way around.

[brianpk80]

Very interesting thread.  

I remember Guli was inquisitive about this card a few years back and it ended up being something to keep in mind on the back burner as a support card for Bant Fish.  If activated, it's like the AEther Vial from hell for the opponent.  I'd thought of it as a sideboard option v. Storm since it allows hatebears to be replayed right after they are bounced.  

As a centerpiece card in a deck, hmmm... well I'm not sure it would be phenomenal (could be wrong), given how many constraints the set-up has.  GW, Threshold, relevant creature(s) in hand, and more.  It's immune from Null Rod and artifact hate unlike Vial, but the casting cost is more prohibitive and still suffers from an increased presence of enchantment hate since Nature's Claim was printed.  It also scoops to graveyard hate.  But since threshhold can sometimes be achieved by Turn 2/3, it's arguably faster than Vial and the clear advantage is the lack of restriction on the creature's casting cost.  

Another consideration is that the opponent must play a spell.  A Standstill comparison is apt, so a deck based on Hunting Grounds should have some way of forcing the opponent to trigger it.  Importantly, casting one's own spell won't break the Hunting Grounds against one's self as Standstill does so the need for Mishra's Factories and its friends is probably not necessary.  

As mentioned above, a Hunting Grounds deck must still function without Hunting Grounds so trying to "live the dream" by plopping down numerous mammoth critters will feel like Tinker.dec with 5 robots in hand.  At its best, I could see a Fish-like construct that borrows brokenness from Oath of Druids and Ichorid but with a smoother CA-like synergy.

Hedron Crab strikes me as the quickest and least embarrassing means of getting threshold.  It comes down for , offers a bit of disruption potential v. topdeck tutors and Sensei, and opens up an alt win that can be surprisingly explosive.  Facilitates a Dread Return means of supplementing a focused big creature suite.  

Life from the Loam and utility lands are sounding good here.  Maybe 1 Bazaar but a set of them would be far too cumbersome on the mana base and strategy.  Glacial Chasm shuts down a lot of wickedness these days and some decks don't even have a maindeck answer for it.  Academy/Cradle are possibilities depending on how a final build looks as alternate ways of resolving large creatures absent a Hunting Grounds.  Karakas.  Rifstone Portal as mentioned before.  

For draw, I'd think of Heartwood Storyteller.  I've never drawn so many cards in Vintage Fish as when that guy hits the table.  I had seen him in a few competitive GWU Fish decks years back, but he's somehow been forgotten.  The synergy with Hunting Grounds is obvious.  


  
Remora on legs with no cumulative upkeep.  Symmetrical, but negligible in very creature heavy builds.  Also, is not useless against other Fish decks because it contains a bigger body than most Fish creatures.  MVP.  

If absolutely necessary, Sterling Grove can tutor for the Hunting Grounds and protect it when in play, but I am thinking this would be overkill.  It does bear noting that Grove can also protect Leylines and protect/tutor for Fastbond should such a move be required.  

The "big" creatures that sound most appealing to me at this point would be Tidespout Tyrant, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Iona, Sun Titan, and Primeval Titan.  Tyrant is much more aggressive in clearing a board than Woodfall/Terastodon.  If the opponent attempts to replay something bounced, it would cause Hunting Grounds & Storyteller to trigger.  Augustin is a good lockpiece next to Tyrant and anti-Sphere that's easily hardcastable compared to the other "dramatic" creatures.  Sun Titan does a million different things and does not desperately depend on the HG with a CC of 6, only 2 of which are colored.  A GWU shell is basically begging for Qasali Pridemage and the graveyard filling + land & landfall emphasis is ripe for Crucible, another solid Titan target.  Primeval may work for the same reasons.  They're not as flashy as Iona, but with a CC of 6, they may be better in a Hunting Grounds deck that could "win small" without resolving its eponymous enchantment.  

That being over, the big creature package should only take up around 4 slots.  The remaining creatures would be standard-sized.  

What creatures would be good to Flash for free on an opponent's turn?  

Gaddock Teeg, Aven Mindcensor, Jotun Grunt, Ethersworn Canonist (aka "End the Turn"), Gilded Drake, Meddling Mage, True Believer, Children of Korlis, Heartwood Storyteller, Spore Frog/Kami of False Hope, Qasali Pridemage, 8.5 Tails.    

Perhaps later today I'll put a list together.  Food for thought.  

[DubDub]

Here's the list I ran in a Legacy event today:

4x Noble Hierarch
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Jace the Mind Sculptor

3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection
3x Spell Pierce

3x Show and Tell
3x Hunting Grounds

3x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
2x Intuition

4x Grozoth
1x Blazing Archon
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

4x Misty Rainforest
4x Flooded Strand
2x Savannah
3x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
1x Forest
1x Island
2x Horizon Canopy

The deck felt fine, but not overpowering.  The Grozoth plan was better than I expected it to be.

I'm not sure about the noble Hierarchs and Vendilion Clique, I'd consider cutting them for 1x Basic, 1x Karakas, 1x Horizon Canopy, 1x Hunting Grounds, and 1x Jace TMS.

[madmanmike25]

I agree with a lot of the things Brian said except on a couple of issues.  I don't think Hedron Crap can sub really well as an alt wincon.  Also it's a 0/2 and applies no pressure, I think Bazaars would give threshold fast enough.  Btw, I don't know why but I like the idea of just G and W.  Maybe because there are much much better ways to win with blue in a deck than Hunting Grounds...  But I guess Trygon is an option if you go blue.

Also, I'm not sure about Jotun Grunt.  Tarmogoyf is just much better maindeck imo.  Sb Grunts are nice though for certain obvious matchups.

Glad we agree on roughly 4 'fatties'.  Any more and it's just too risky.  On that note, personally I prefer creatures I could potentially hardcast late game if it comes down to that.  Besides the Titans and Primus, any thoughts on other green or white fatties?  Terra Stomper, Vengevine (mid range i know), Khalni Hydra??

Mindcensor seems great to stop Tinker/Tutor/Fetch.  True believer seems like another good call for Oath.

I kinda like the creature heavy idea to complement Heartwood Storyteller, if that does go in.

Very interesting indeed...

[RecklessEmbermage]

I like bazaar for drawing and riftstone portal for fixing more than storyteller. That said, storyteller could be a complete blowout in some match-ups and may be worth maindeck slots. Life from the loam shoud trump squee in turning on bazaar, since it provides some very strong utility and since the deck will have mana to spare if it gets hunting grounds online.

A decklist, slightly budget if you don't mind:

25 mana sources:
4 bazaar of baghdad
2 riftstone portal (couldn't fit more. Too taxing on the manabase)
4 windswept heath
1 green fetch
2 savannah
1 horizon canopy
2 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
2 wasteland
1 strip mine
4 mox diamond

15 spells
2 crop rotation
3 life from the loam
3 nature's claim
4 hunting grounds
3 sensei's divining top

20 creatures
4 tarmogoyf
4 qasali pridemage
4 knight of the reliquary
2 heartwood storyteller
2 aven mindcensor
1 eternal witness
2 woodfall primus
1 blazing archon

If the metagame allows, starting mox diamond and eventually boarding into null rod seems preferable. This list has a million two-drops and really benefits from top.

When it comes to creatures, I'm more inclined to run overall solid creatures than too many extravagant or bullet creatures main. There is no tutor in these colours I'd be comfortable with running, though top is good. Tidespout tyrant doesn't really work so well. Terastodon might be an interesting option. Woodfall primus is flexible, good against edicts and big enough to beat through most defenses. Archon should be good in a number of match-ups and may be worth more than one slot. Hunting grounds atleast theoretically works best with reactive answers, such as archon, rather than proactive ones, such as Iona. Playing white and not including stp or balance looks kinda silly, but they seem at odds with what the deck tries to accomplish (big board presence, cards at hand and creatures rather than spells).

The combo can of course be taken in other directions and there are sound reasons for playing any other colour on top of white and green.

[Troy_Costisick]

Here's the list I ran in a Legacy event today:

4x Noble Hierarch
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Jace the Mind Sculptor

3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection
3x Spell Pierce

3x Show and Tell
3x Hunting Grounds

3x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
2x Intuition

4x Grozoth
1x Blazing Archon
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn

4x Misty Rainforest
4x Flooded Strand
2x Savannah
3x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
1x Forest
1x Island
2x Horizon Canopy

The deck felt fine, but not overpowering.  The Grozoth plan was better than I expected it to be.

I'm not sure about the noble Hierarchs and Vendilion Clique, I'd consider cutting them for 1x Basic, 1x Karakas, 1x Horizon Canopy, 1x Hunting Grounds, and 1x Jace TMS.

So how'd you do? What were some of the strengths and weaknesses you discovered?

Peace,

-Troy

[DubDub]

So how'd you do? What were some of the strengths and weaknesses you discovered?

Peace,

-Troy

Eh, I was hoping to avoid that question.  I went 2-3.  These notes are probably a little off.

By Round:
Non-LED Legacy Dredge 2-0.
Dreadstill 2-0 (with boarded in Qasali Pridemage beats in G2, though I was in control).
TES 0-2.*
New Horizons 1-2
Legacy Jund (BBE, Blightning, Tarmo, Confidant, Hymn to Tourach, Maelstrom Pulse) 1-2

Dredge was fine, as I countered his card drawing, got threshold, and resolved Hunting Ground into Grozoth into game.  He scooped to Blazing Archon being put into play (he actually Dread Returned Iona, so I put her into play too...).  Game two I had double Wheel of Sun and Moon, and Swords for his Putrid Imp.  I eventually S&T'd Emrakul in, he put in Iona, but that was obviously insufficient.

The Dreadstill games were close, I think he scooped game one when I Hunting Grounds'd Grozoth into play against his empty board.  G2 I had pridemage beats as noted above.

TES I mulled five lands, Noble Hierarch, and Ponder into 1x Swords, 3x Force of Will, 1x Brainstorm, and 1x Grozoth.  He was able to fight through my triple Force and make Goblin tokens the turn before I could Show and Tell Blazing Archon.  Game two against TES I had one land, Brainstorm, Spell Pierce, Misdirection, Grozoth, Ethersworn Canonist, and another non-land card.  I achieved threshold by discarding cards before finding my second land.  I may have misplayed by fetching a tundra in order to Spell Pierce and have white for Ethersworn Canonist, because I subsequently drew Noble Hierarchs that did not help my land woes.

Against New Horizons we had some wars of attrition, and I didn't find the combo consistently enough.  He had a Trygon Predator that killed my Hunting Grounds after Grozothing.  I hung in there by Misdirecting his Swords, and topdecking one of my own, but had no way to get Blazing Archon into play.  My opponent had multiple Knights of the Reliquary, which quickly outgrew my Grozoth wall, that card is pretty broken.

Against Jund I got edged by 'many creatures' in game one, got the combo in game two (and attacked with Grozoth for the win eventually), and fell to Extirpate (after intuition for 3x Show and Tell) in game three.  Game three I was on the 2x Noble Hierarch and Vendilion Clique plan, but he had boarded in REB for my Clique.

I really wish they hadn't 'pushed' the power level of Sphinx so much, because if it cost nine there would be no difference in Legacy Reanimator or Vintage play, but Sphinx would be leagues better than Inkwell here.

[brianpk80]

I agree with a lot of the things Brian said except on a couple of issues.  I don't think Hedron Crap can sub really well as an alt wincon.  Also it's a 0/2 and applies no pressure, I think Bazaars would give threshold fast enough.  Btw, I don't know why but I like the idea of just G and W.  Maybe because there are much much better ways to win with blue in a deck than Hunting Grounds...  But I guess Trygon is an option if you go blue.

There's truth here.  I've had the misfortune of once playing against a deck that opened with double Hedron Crab and had my library down to <15 cards by Turn 4 a few fetchlands later.  I may have been biased by that experience, since it did naturally make me think "WTF that's ridiculous."  I was one Flooded Strand away from losing that game. 

Maybe Painter/Grindstone would be a good alt win, since the Stone fuels threshold and the Painter can come down at EOT uncounterably if Hunting Grounds is online. 

I like Bazaar of Baghdad in theory but I've had bad results playing it in Fish-like builds.  I see it and think "oh good, this can find the answers and get rid of redundant cards" but the sacrifice of a land drop and the card disadvantage is a big setback that has cost me games.  I can think of too many times where it's found an answer but left me 1 mana shy of resolving it or it's caused me to discard the spell I was going to use as counterbait and the answer's been countered.   Dredge, Animate, Welder... > Dark Confidant > ... Life from the Loam.       

Also, I'm not sure about Jotun Grunt.  Tarmogoyf is just much better maindeck imo.  Sb Grunts are nice though for certain obvious matchups.

Goyf is a better beatstick but I think the best creatures in this build would be ones geared towards defense/disruption since it has both inevitability and set-up requirements.  Goyf is better with early pressure (Daze, Duress, Null Rod) and an aggressive clock.  Here, staying alive for three or four turns is the primary early objective.  To that end, I'd want Teeg, Qasali, Meddlers, Believer, draw-critters, and similar guys that buy a turn or two v. Ichorid and Storm.   

Glad we agree on roughly 4 'fatties'.  Any more and it's just too risky.  On that note, personally I prefer creatures I could potentially hardcast late game if it comes down to that.  Besides the Titans and Primus, any thoughts on other green or white fatties?  Terra Stomper, Vengevine (mid range i know), Khalni Hydra??

I've played around with a HG build and found Sun Titan to be the strongest.  Tyrant is amazing but the non-Hunting Grounds casting cost is too prohibitive.  Same with Iona. 

I kinda like the creature heavy idea to complement Heartwood Storyteller, if that does go in.

He's a total gamebreaker v. most decks.  Wonderful w. Mindbreak Traps in the sb.   

Life from the loam shoud trump squee in turning on bazaar,

Definitely.  Squee does nothing w/o Bazaar.

Archon should be good in a number of match-ups and may be worth more than one slot. Hunting grounds atleast theoretically works best with reactive answers, such as archon, rather than proactive ones, such as Iona.

A good point, quoted for truth. 

[madmanmike25]

Just out of curiosity, did you ever use Riftstone Portals in conjunction with Bazaar?  I wonder if that helps the land drop loss.  Also if you run Crop Rotation, you can play a singleton or pair of Bazaars.

The main issue i had with Jotun grunt is that it seems to have bad synergy with HG, since it will inevitably eat up your threshold or you have to lose your 4/4 beater.  But I agree that creatures that disrupt are paramount.  Qasali, Teeg, Canonist, Aven seem ok enough.  Actually in a MUD meta Kataki would be better than Canonist.  Also dont forget that Vexing Shusher is GG, pun intended.  That card is beastly against control and often overlooked as a green creature.

I almost hate to type this next part.  I've been thinking quite a bit and I wonder if instead of HG a deck like this should just run the green Tinker, Natural Order.  Me and a buddy worked briefly on that deck a bit and it tested fairly well.  Two mana vs. four mana is offset by running BoP's/Heirarch/Llanowar/Lotus Cobra.  HG requires threshold, Natural Order does not.  HG requires the creature to be in hand, Order does not.  HG requires the opponent to play a spell, which they won't do if they have board control.

On the other hand Order doesn't appear to be as great in multiples, would be a bitch if its countered(Shusher helps), and limits the creature to being green.  That said, seems like Order is a much bigger bomb if it resolves though.  Not trying to derail this, but if I were to answer the thread;  I'm not sure it is possible to break HG.  The more I think about it, I get the idea that it is slower than Survival if it comes down on turn 2.  Drawing multiple HG's doesn't do much if you aren't drawing creatures.