Elves! We have a winner!

[Troy_Costisick]

Budget deckers, check this thing out:



This thing is really re-diculous.  Can this make our pointy-eared friends viable?

Peace,

-Troy

[xouman]

What about playing that card in a Oath deck with channel-emrakul?

Resolving a channel means that there is a good chance to hit a creature, or at least a oath (and maybe vault+key). Probably only overkill, but at GGG2 (without channel) it has small chance to hit an oath/orchard/vault/key. It can do wonders with sensei or lim dul's vault, plus a decent amount of mana.

Or it can enable MUD G, with Ancient Stirrings. Oh well, it can't, mws does not work with this card

[BruiZar]

This doesnt make elves more viable for vintage because elves still suffer from the same problems. It does help elves, but not in vintage.

[Klep]

This thing is really re-diculous.  Can this make our pointy-eared friends viable?

Not in Vintage.  It's too expensive in both absolute cost and color requirements.

[Troy_Costisick]

This thing is really re-diculous.  Can this make our pointy-eared friends viable?

Not in Vintage.  It's too expensive in both absolute cost and color requirements.

You can generate 20 mana in a turn with Elves.  How is it too exepense to cast?

[TheBrassMan]

At 20 mana this card looks like a really awful Banefire.

[Anusien]

At what mana cost does this card become better than Weird Harvest? That's the comparison you have to make.

[BruiZar]

Depends on the mana you can generate. If you have a lot of mana, you want Genesis Wave. If you don´t have a lot of mana, Weird Harvest can help complete the combo. In other words, depends on the build. If you want to win through storm, this thing doesn´t add more than one. If you want to win through Crossroads beats, this thing can be a complete blow out.

I personally would rather have Genesis Wave, because it eliminates the need for Regal Force/Weird Harvest.

[nineisnoone]

I thought the point of Elves was to Grapeshot for victory?  

It just seems kind of slow for Elves since it still needs the combo to win, but this forces you to pass the turn.  Plus, you don't get to draw off the Elves it hit so it seems fairly weak as a non-win play.

Maybe if you ran Concordant Crossing (I think that's the name)?  This will put that card into play as well, and then you can attack for the win.  It's been awhile since I've messed with Elves though, so I dunno.  But I don't think this is right for Elf-storm though.

[policehq]

Weird Harvest would let you build storm, and this doesn't. Besides, Elves can generate 20 mana in a turn, but it is so often used in 1-to-3 increments at a time, unless of course, you're just fooling around and have already won the game.

[BruiZar]

I thought the point of Elves was to Grapeshot for victory?  

It just seems kind of slow for Elves since it still needs the combo to win, but this forces you to pass the turn.  Plus, you don't get to draw off the Elves it hit so it seems fairly weak as a non-win play.

Maybe if you ran Concordant Crossing (I think that's the name)?  This will put that card into play as well, and then you can attack for the win.  It's been awhile since I've messed with Elves though, so I dunno.  But I don't think this is right for Elf-storm though.

Extended elves converted to an Akroma´s Memorial build with Elvish Archdruid. Still comboesque, but focused on the attackstep. You refer to crossroads.

[Troy_Costisick]

The problem Elves decks have (a lot) is fizzling on land draws.  This allows you to drop your lands into play along with all your critters.  If requires a rethinking of the deck.  I like better than Chord of Calling, and yes, you'd want to play it with Concordant Crossroads or Mass Hysteria.

[madmanmike25]

What are the advantages of spending a ton of mana casting this as opposed to spending a ton of mana on a card like Biorhythm?

In fact, why not just spend 3 mana and cast Ezuri, Renegade Leader and have a bunch of trampling Elves next turn?  I think that guy adds a great straight-up aggro Elves win.

Btw, take that with a grain of salt because I play more Minotaurs then I do Elves.

[Troy_Costisick]

In fact, why not just spend 3 mana and cast Ezuri, Renegade Leader and have a bunch of trampling Elves next turn?  I think that guy adds a great straight-up aggro Elves win.

Why not do both?  That's what I'm asking.

[Doomsday]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

[BruiZar]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Landfalling with lotus cobras/obnixilis/admonition angel simultaneously? Does that even work?

[Troy_Costisick]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

[nineisnoone]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

True, but I don't really see this as a draw engine.  I am curious to see if Gush might fit well in this deck when it gets unrestricted.

[BruiZar]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

True, but I don't really see this as a draw engine.  I am curious to see if Gush might fit well in this deck when it gets unrestricted.

This is more like stroke of genius than it is to minds desire. I consider it a draw engine that cheats the one land per turn limit.

[Klep]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

Conceding, for the sake of argument, that Vintage Elves is even worth talking about, as Brassman implied, you could just win the game.  Drawing cards is nice, but it's not an end in-and-of itself.

[Doomsday]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

Yes, I have this deck built and play it a lot.  You don't ever end up with 20 mana but "no gas".  If you have 20 mana you have glimpses or skullclamp online, most likely both.  The only time there is ever an issue is if you've cast more than one glimpse, have exactly one card left in your library, and that card is your Grapeshot.

[Troy_Costisick]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

Yes, I have this deck built and play it a lot.  You don't ever end up with 20 mana but "no gas".  If you have 20 mana you have glimpses or skullclamp online, most likely both.  The only time there is ever an issue is if you've cast more than one glimpse, have exactly one card left in your library, and that card is your Grapeshot.

If the deck actually worked that well, then budget players would pick it up all over the place.  It doesn't.  It fizzles all the time.  Land clumps, redundant scullcalmps or enchantments, too many Symbiotes and not enough elves.  Sentinals but no Heritage Druids or Rangers.  This stuff happens a lot.  Genesis wave lets you convert a bunch of Priest of Titania mana into to permanents.  This card helps you get there in elf decks.

[Doomsday]

Obviously if you have 20 mana you're already going off, so what is this for?

Have you played the deck?  There's plenty of times you get to a point where you've got lots of mana producers but no gas.  You run into a patch of land or your combo piece is stuck at the bottom of the deck.  So you're left with a bunch of 1/1's that can't kill your opponent right then and there.  Elf decks need draw engines.  Bouncing Visionary once or twice a turn doesn't cut it.  Sometimes Glimpse fails.  Scullclamp can cause you to overextend.  Having another option in the deck is great.

Yes, I have this deck built and play it a lot.  You don't ever end up with 20 mana but "no gas".  If you have 20 mana you have glimpses or skullclamp online, most likely both.  The only time there is ever an issue is if you've cast more than one glimpse, have exactly one card left in your library, and that card is your Grapeshot.

If the deck actually worked that well, then budget players would pick it up all over the place.  It doesn't.  It fizzles all the time.  Land clumps, redundant scullcalmps or enchantments, too many Symbiotes and not enough elves.  Sentinals but no Heritage Druids or Rangers.  This stuff happens a lot.  Genesis wave lets you convert a bunch of Priest of Titania mana into to permanents.  This card helps you get there in elf decks.

If you have symbiotes and no elves, or sentinels and no druids/birchlores, where exactly are you getting the mana to make Genesis at all effective?  Do you actually play Priest of Titania?  I think maybe we're talking about different decks here.

[Troy_Costisick]

Do you actually play Priest of Titania?  I think maybe we're talking about different decks here.

Yes, I do.  And yes, I think we are.

[BruiZar]

This sure looks like an attractive way to generate tons of mana.

[Troy_Costisick]

This sure looks like an attractive way to generate tons of mana.

Yeah.  Wow.  Elf decks got a lot in this set.  A new engine, a new elf, and a way to target Sphinx.  I wonder if RnD is maybe planting some cards to help develop this deck a little further in Extended and beyond formats.

[TopSecret]

Do you actually play Priest of Titania?  I think maybe we're talking about different decks here.

Yes, I do.  And yes, I think we are.

Maybe it would help dispel the ambiguity if you posted an example list?

[Troy_Costisick]

Do you actually play Priest of Titania?  I think maybe we're talking about different decks here.

Yes, I do.  And yes, I think we are.

Maybe it would help dispel the ambiguity if you posted an example list?

This isn't the thread for that, but I will be soon in the Creative forum.  I'll be going to the SoM tournaments this weekend and next, so after that I should have some real data worth sharing.  Needless to say, I'm envisioning something very different from Rich Shay's build that he piloted so well some time ago.  If that strategy were still viable, I think more budget players would gravitate to that deck.