[Madrid 9/10/2010] Eternal Weekend 2010 Vintage Main Event

[CHaPuZaS]

You will be able to read the full Metagame Breakdown in this link to Evolution Store.

Tournament Data

Format: Vintage (WITHOUT Proxies)
Assistance: 148 Players
When: Saturday, October, 9th, 2010
Where: Alcobendas, Madrid - Spain

Gush Storm, by Rubén González - Champion

Maindeck

3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
4 Force of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
4 Gush
1 Brainstorm
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Repeal
2 Preordain
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Fire / Ice
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth

Sideboard

4 Ingot Chewer
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Mountain
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Mindbreak Trap

Gush Storm, by Guillem Ragull - Finalist

Maindeck

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Fire / Ice
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Repeal
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor

Sideboard

3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror

Jace Control, by Darío González - Semifinalist

Maindeck

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Tinker
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Merchant Scroll
4 Dark Confidant
3 Trygon Predator
4 Force of Will
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
2 Mana Drain
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Misdirection
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce

Sideboard

1 Doom Blade
1 Yixlid Jailer
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Forest
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Nature’s Claim
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

GAT, by Carlos Moral - Semifinalist

Maindeck

3 Tarmogoyf
3 Trygon Predator
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Tinker
4 Preordain
4 Force of Will
4 Gush
4 Thoughtseize
4 Spell Pierce
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Regrowth
1 Misdirection
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Fastbond
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island

Sideboard

1 Island
1 Forest
2 Nature’s Claim
2 Deathmark
1 Smother
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Yixlid Jailer
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Seal of Primordium

MUD, by Pedro Mula - Quarterfinalist

Maindeck

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sculpting Steel
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant
1 Razormane Masticore

Sideboard

3 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Jester’s Cap
2 Karakas
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Spawning Pit
2 Duplicant

MUD, by Alejandro Escribano - Quarterfinalist

Maindeck

4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra’s Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tolarian Academy
1 City of Traitors
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Smokestack
2 Juggernaut
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
2 Tangle Wire
2 Duplicant
2 Sculpting Steel
2 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard

3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Duplicant
1 Null Rod
2 Bottled Cloister

Dredge, by Ricardo Nieto - Quarterfinalist

Maindeck

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Cephalid Sage
1 Sphinx of the Lost Truths
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Fastestitcher
3 Darkblast
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dread Return
4 Serum Powder
4 Bridge from Below

Sideboard

4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Nature’s Claim
1 Darkblast
2 Petrified Field

TTS, by Inazio Madariaga - Quarterfinalist

Maindeck

4 Dark Ritual
1 Doomsday
1 Necropotence
1 Regrowth
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
4 Force of Will
1 Time Walk
1 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Preordain
2 See Beyond
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island

Sideboard

1 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Nature’s Claim
2 Thoughtseize
4 Oath of Druids
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Terastoon
1 Blazing Archon
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tormod’s Crypt

[Cane1024]

Glad to see Gush storm is wrecking shit everywhere. Looks like a very interesting top 8. Thanks for posting these lists.

[Phele]

Thanks for posting the lists. Ragulls list is missing its maindeck disruption suite.

[CHaPuZaS]

Corrected! It was missing 4 FoW and 3 Drain that was wrote on the back of the sheet.

[Troy_Costisick]

Nicely diversified top 8.  I especially like the Dredge list.  Very interesting maindecking a Mox Sapphire.

[CHaPuZaS]

BoM, Ovino and Eternal Weekend are now the sanctioned Vintage events with the highest assistance, aren't they?

This lists represent then Vintage Post Restrictions. Aren't they interesting to discuss?

[Qube]

BoM, Ovino and Eternal Weekend are now the sanctioned Vintage events with the highest assistance, aren't they?

And all of them in Europe, nice to see that. 

This lists represent then Vintage Post Restrictions. Aren't they interesting to discuss?

They are really interesting, but like Cane said:

Glad to see Gush storm is wrecking shit everywhere!

I would like to ask, where your decklist is?? 

[CHaPuZaS]

They are really interesting, but like Cane said:

Glad to see Gush storm is wrecking shit everywhere!

I would like to ask, where your decklist is?? 

I am the organizer of the Eternal Weekend events. In order to not disrupt the event or the players, I don't play my own events. That way I can take care for them to go as well and smoothly as possible. I won the Monday's Vintage All Stars, an invitation.only event for the best Vintage players of Spain. Lists will come out this week.

What I can tell is that the new Dark Tezz(Jace)Cast absolutely wins against Gush Decks, because out of 8 rounds, 6 I got paired against Gush-X Decks and JaceCast ony lost two games, and not in the same round.

[heiner]

I am still not convinced that having an autoloss against MUD game one is tolerable. Apart from that I like the lists.

Discussing them is difficult as their players probably don't post on TMD. I would be interested how they liked of Fire/Ice, Repeal and tendrils+empty but who will answer for them?

[CHaPuZaS]

Some of them are TMD Users, so we can hope they'll discuss about it.

[Qube]

I am the organizer of the Eternal Weekend events. In order to not disrupt the event or the players, I don't play my own events. That way I can take care for them to go as well and smoothly as possible. I won the Monday's Vintage All Stars, an invitation.only event for the best Vintage players of Spain. Lists will come out this week.

What I can tell is that the new Dark Tezz(Jace)Cast absolutely wins against Gush Decks, because out of 8 rounds, 6 I got paired against Gush-X Decks and JaceCast ony lost two games, and not in the same round.

Allright, then I understand why there was no Tezzcast. I'm really interested how your list will look like.
I think it will give another "decktype" to play in the current meta. It's very nice to see how it has changed in this month.

For the question about Fire / Ice, I think it's very nice. Cause there were ~40 decks which played with creature, which are affected by Fire. It can buy Gush.dec some valuable turns to prepare "going off". (and in some situation, after a small empty, you can just fire off those dmg to the player)

[CHaPuZaS]

Until the New Gush Era, Spain was dominated by Dark Confidant as the primary draw engine, so I think that's another valuable reason to run F/I.

[PeAcH]

@heiner:

The suite of bouncers/removal has been the one we have been using for months in different tournaments in Europe/Spain with a certain degree of success.

Fire and Ice is just awesome in a tournament where you expect a certain amount of aggro due to Budget deck prices. Moreover, as the tournament was just one week after unrestriction, we thought some people would just stick to old drawing engines (i.e. full set of bobs) so we would keep f&I in. Additionally, maindecking 2 F&I allows you to free some space in the side versus aggro in favour of other matchups.

[heiner]

@heiner:

The suite of bouncers/removal has been the one we have been using for months in different tournaments in Europe/Spain with a certain degree of success.

Fire and Ice is just awesome in a tournament where you expect a certain amount of aggro due to Budget deck prices. Moreover, as the tournament was just one week after unrestriction, we thought some people would just stick to old drawing engines (i.e. full set of bobs) so we would keep f&I in. Additionally, maindecking 2 F&I allows you to free some space in the side versus aggro in favour of other matchups.

thanks Peach. Could you elaborate a little bit more on the bounce issue. I found that Rebuild is totally useless, as it is completely impossible to cast. Even 2cc can be tough against stax. The only spell you can reliably cast against stax is Ingot so I wonder if one has to play them main to have a chance game one vs. Mud. How did the dec work out against mud?
Repeals don't work against stax either and if I wanted to cantrip them I d rather play preordain which shows me two more cards. Do you really think the repeals are that strong?
Furthermore, how did you like the Twister? Would you consider playing Wheel as well?
I am a big fan of imperal seal in gush, as with two lands you can seal, float green, gush, play fastbond and reply the lands wich is a nice sequence that comes up quite often. Did you consider it?

[Odd mutation]

I've played the winning list a few times and it plays great! How does the MUD matchup play out?

[CHaPuZaS]

Impotant to explain: There was no winning list, both González and Ragull are part of the same team (Jack Drain's) and decided to split. As we are enforced to have a winner in that situation Ragull dropped in order to have a winner in the DCI Reporter. Both lists and players were the winners.

Also, both of them performed to another Top8 in the Vintage All Stars that took place on Monday.

[The Atog Lord]

Cesar, thank you for typing up these lists. First, let me say that I am eagerly anticipating seeing your new decklist. I've enjoyed playing your Thoughtcast lists in the past.

Now, for these lists. There are quite a few interesting things we can observe and discuss here.

Fifteen lands is a bit higher than the 14 I've been playing in the lists that I've tried, but then supporting a fourth color may mandate this. Sol Ring, while of course in many ways different from Land, is a very important card against Workshop decks. It basically counteracts two Sphere effects at once. And because it costs one instead of zero, it lets you play an accelerant in the face of a Chalice at zero.

My next question is whether Jace is something that we want. Jace is four mana -- which is quite expensive. The other cards that cost that much in this deck end the game, while Jace does not. That said, Mana Drain may facilitate casting this spell. And certainly, I have underestimated Jace in the past. He may well be correct. But I doubt that having a single copy of this spell will hinder things much.

Whether 14 or 15 lands are correct, and whether one Jace is correct, are minor. My two real questions are whether we want Red, and whether Firce/Ice is desirable. In my testing, I have often had difficulty assembling the fourth color in modern Gush decks. Typically, I've been able to get Blue, and two other colors, within the first few turns; but when using decks with a fourth color, I've not consistently been able to have all four colors during the critical first few turns. On the other hand, there are things Red can do which other colors cannot and so it may be worthwhile.

My other question is Fire/Ice. It does dig and it does remove some threats. But it is somewhat narrow, and unexciting to cycle. Has anyone tried this in testing? I would imagine that it wouldn't be good enough or powerful enough to run, but I have not tested it.

Edited: For Better English!

[CHaPuZaS]

The main card that stands out is

...  Take us out of doubts!! 

[Doomsday]

Does Inazio post here at all?  If not, does anyone know what his sideboard plan was?  He was playing Tropical Storm sideboarding into Oath, but with only 1 Forbidden Orchard.  It makes me think he was doing it vs aggro, but this deck should be crushing that anyway so probably not.  Was it for control with Bobs, or what?

[heiner]

Fire/ICe is good against confidant and good against noble, but in most cases it will also there kill only one dude. It doesn't hit Jace nor Jugg/Golem which Lightning Bolt does as which is therefore superior in my choice. By far the most important red card though is Ingot Chewer.

[PeAcH]

@heiner

Rebuild is much better than expected. It allows you to cycle through the deck, bounces your moxen and Null Rod versus aggro to prepare for winning storm and gets rid of Tolarian during enemy EOT and combos really nice with twister. In the MUD matchup, helps to get out in your unkeep (thanks to extra artifacts) and paired with repeals it helps you get rid of CotV@0 in the first two turns versus MUD.

Repeals have been just awesome versus Oath, Fish and even control (with Confidants). They let you play the top trick for CA and up the storm count a lot in first 2 turns to allow a winning empty versus anything.

Twister is just incredible. I have to say I have won many many matches playing first turn twister (either by accelerants or with walk). I already played it prior to Gush unrestriction in the Fact slot. Now with Fastbond et al. it´s just too good. Please, give it a try if you play combocontrol (and never ever side it out). Comparing it to Wheel would not be fair. I would rather get back the set of gushes or an already discarded Will (by duress or TGZ on the early turns). If you don´t play with Welders, Twister is much much better.

I would rather play imperial in a more combo oriented decklist. I know it´s great with gush. But the deck does not need Gush to win. It´s another drawing complement, not the only one.


@The Atog Lord

Regarding the 14-15 land issue it has already commented that nonpreordain combocontrol Gush decks need the extra mana to play protected bombs whilst preordain Gush decklist just filter searching for the lesser landcounted lands. I prefer not having to search for lands

An opening with either Ring or Vault is rather strong versus MUD as you comment. The extra boost allows you to get the window one turn earlier than expected even when you are on the draw (thus wrecking MUD guessing and second turn act). Moreover, Vault is golden versus tangle effects, althought this is a minor advantage. These are the only two outs agains a CotV@0 + golem on the draw. For me, focusing on a rather dominated MUD metagame is top priority. That´s why you can find chewers and bouncers 4-5 in the sideboard. Otherwise, you don´t get anough time.
As already commented in this forum, the trap of the metagame will be trying to play 13 lands with 6 artifacs in order to avoid being flooded. I think 24 should be the minimum in non GAT non Doomsday Gush decks.


On the Fire and Ice topic:

I have to admit I have lately prefered conventional bouncers in this slots (I 33ed in Annency with a list of 2 Hurkyl´s, 2 Rebuild, 4 Repeal maindeck plus Chewers in the side. I won versus 3 MUD decks.). However, Confidants were increasingingly more played in Spain prior to Gush unrestriction, plus there is some degree of aggro in our meta too, so I decided to maindeck first one of them and then the other. In this Topdeck world we have been playing during the last 6 months, I think Confidant is one of the cards that steal games from you when no other control card could (appart from Vault+Key or Yagmoth´s). So I needed extra resources apart from repeals.

Jace is really strong, but as you comment, a singleton is not enough to see the impact it could have on the decklist. Ruben commented everytime he untapped with it in play it won him the game on the spot (2 brainstorm efects is toooo much and it allows this deck to go off easily).

As already commented, we decided to maindeck 2 F&I for the tournament in order to free some sideboard space and focusing the deck against first 3 rounds aggro decks (there was a Mox set as budget price). They won me two games during the day.

A further approach could be taking out the Repeals and Fire and ices in order to free some space for preordains. However, the control element will become a little more weak.

What would your suggested changes be?

[The Atog Lord]

I suspect that the optimal build will be only a function of the expected metagame. As evidenced by TravisCon, the United States is seeing a huge surge in Workshop popularity. And a pernicious problem I continue to encounter in testing is how to make Gush decks defeat MUD decks on the draw. In particular, I am finding that even when sideboarding, against Espresso Stax (The MUD variant with Serum Powder), Gush decks have difficulty winning regularly on the draw. Therefore, I would prefer to alter the main deck in order to have a stronger MUD matchup when playing second. The problem is that I am unsure exactly how to accomplish this. Have you found a way to make games on the draw against MUD favorable? If so, I would be happy to try it. Otherwise, I will continue searching. But I would be quite willing to alter the maindeck for a better MUD matchup, if I were convinced it were possible.

[beder]

I suspect that the optimal build will be only a function of the expected metagame. As evidenced by TravisCon, the United States is seeing a huge surge in Workshop popularity. And a pernicious problem I continue to encounter in testing is how to make Gush decks defeat MUD decks on the draw. In particular, I am finding that even when sideboarding, against Espresso Stax (The MUD variant with Serum Powder), Gush decks have difficulty winning regularly on the draw. Therefore, I would prefer to alter the main deck in order to have a stronger MUD matchup when playing second. The problem is that I am unsure exactly how to accomplish this. Have you found a way to make games on the draw against MUD favorable? If so, I would be happy to try it. Otherwise, I will continue searching. But I would be quite willing to alter the maindeck for a better MUD matchup, if I were convinced it were possible.

Quite evidently, the first pb of gush decks against shop is the "13 spheres package". For a deck which has a light mana base and a strategy relying on playing many spells, this can 'almost lock' you if shop is on the draw.  Other shop's disruption, like tangle, wastes or chalice for instance, are not as penalizing as spheres given the Gush deck's engine.

With that in mind, I am wondering if a card like "Engeenered explosive" could not be a very interesting option card, perhaps even main deck.
Against shop, setting it at 2 should not be very difficult, to get rid of all the spheres (it trumps sphere, thorn and even lodestone)
Example : even with 2 spheres and one lodestone on board, Engeenered explosive will still cost 2 to come on board and can destroy the 2 sphere. To adress the specific pb of "13 spheres", this is pretty good.
Sure, this cannot be the only tool used but this can  nicely complement trygon or natural's claim or other solutions.

Then, it can also be usefull against other decks :
- against Tezz/blue control, it can help destroying dark conf or even moxes (which are a lot more important for them as for you),
- against Oath, it can also be an interesting option (even if this is not the best one, for sure),
- against dredge, this is a usefull tool, to slow down the zombie infection, in order to have enough time to combo,
- against rod/fish deck, if you face a good player, there is a good chance that he will side out the null rod - given that you don't play vault/key and don't rely strongly on mana artifact - allowing your explosive to be very usefull.

... and it kills "Empty the warrens" tokens, which I am sure will become soon and again a big deal.

To sum up :
- E.E. could be very good against shop's spheres,
- E.E. should rarely be excellent against other decks (in comparison to other options which could be more dedicated),
- E.E. should rarely be useless against other decks.  

[Cane1024]

Your right Rich, our meta is infested with shops. I agree with beder completely on EE though. I think the best answer main deck would be EE on the draw. Out of the board for game 2 on the draw or on the play is Ingot Chewer. EE and Chewer both have in common the fact that they get around certain lock effects. But my main concern is Tangle Wire which is very hard to deal with. In the end its EE over everything.

My opinion on 3 colors vs 4 is that the pro's of 4 colors are more than the con's.
Pro's of 4 colors: Access to Reb and pyroblast which trumps Tezz/Jace badly or any blue based deck for that matter. Empty the warrens which is as strong as ever with the lack of Etruth and EE out there. Access to Chewer and Grudge which are some of the best artifact hate cards around. Fire/Ice which is highly underrated and pyroclasm which is the best fish answer out there.
Con's: Harder to find all 4 colors although I rarely ever experience this but others seem to have. More susceptible to waste effects.

[Phele]

I think one of the biggest problems Gush deck have against modern MUD builds is that they still rely too much on playing a very thin manabase and try to compensate that by using lots of small sorcery digging tools and disruption spells - especially GAT. Preordain and Thoughtseize are very nice spells, but they leave you very vulnerable against MUD with all its sphere effects, Wastelands and Tangle Wires. For example on the play, if you play Thoughtseize you might get an important tool from the MUD player. But a single Wasteland can then ruin your day. Same for Preordain. Yes, you can fetch on a basic Island instead but this causes color problems in an deck that plays three or four colors.  both spells get even worse on the draw. Without much acceleration in addition to lands, you usually can't play one of them, if MUD starts with a Sphere. And it won't get better: With win conditions that heavily rely on playing many of these one mana sorceries (Dryad, Storm spell), every Sphere can easily knock you out. The winning decklists in Madrid give a good example how you can modify your deck, to have at least a game in game one against MUD: Play more acceleration (Moxen, Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Drains ...) and play less sorceries (no Thoughtseizes in the maindeck and almost no Preordains). Instead they play more expensive but at the same time more broken draw and search spells like Twister, Gifts, Jace, which are for sure also very difficult to cast against MUD. But with enough mana to get in the game, you can at least cast your bombs against MUD like Hurkyl or Mana Drain and the big bombs gives you something to do after you have cast these bombs instead of just playing a Dryad and a Thoughtseize.