TPTS - The Perfect Tropical Storm

[Ego_Sum]

It puzzles me that nobody has started a thread in this forum with a deck like this afther the latter Gush Unrestriction. This is why I decided to post my idea so we can discuss about it. I know we miss Brainstorm, Ponder and even Merchant Scroll, but even without those pieces the decks seems pretty solid.

NOTE: I call it TPTS, because we already have TPS amd TTS (which was the former list with full set of Brainstorms and Ponders).

"The Perfect Tropical Storm"

Maindeck 60

4x Force of Will
4x Duress

4x Gush
4x Preordain
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Demonic tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal

1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Necropotence
1x Doomsday
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
1x Timetwister

1x Hurkyl' s Recall
1x Chain of Vapor

4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Fastbond

2x Tendrils of Agony

1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Lotus Petal
1x Black Lotus

2x Island
1x Tropical Island
4x Undeground Sea
2x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard 15

1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Xantid Swarm
3x Nature’s Claim
1x Hurkyl’s Recall
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ravenous Trap
2x nihil Spellbomb
2x Yixlid Jailer

The following is a list of cards that can be added to the deck, and some that can be cut:

-Tinker + Memory Jar +Robot (ideally Sphinx of the Steel Wind): adding Tinker + Jar to the main deck and the Robot to the sideboard, so we can empower MUD/Fish Match up (the Sphinx is also decent against GAT). The reason why I' m not sure is that having Tinker + Jar can make potentially 2x1 against ust if we are facig a controllish deck, plus the Jar is too bad against Null Rod decks aswell.

-2nd and/or 3rd Doomsday: it seems very easy to kill through the standard doomsday pile (ritual --> doomsday --> gush. and the pile lotus petal --> ancestral recall --> black lotus --> yawgmoth's will --> tendrils of agony), so it may be interesting to add some more so we can go for 2nd turn kill easier. The problem, though, is that drawing multiple doomsday usually sucks.

-Rebuild: main deck or sideboard, so we can diversify the costs to avoid CoTV. If added to the sideboard it can replace a nature's claim, but I have no idea what to cut to add it to the Main deck.

-Mind's Desire: my favorite card ever. But without Tolarian Academy seems weaker thatn in a regular TPS build.

-Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault: having mana acceleration in a combo deck is always good, though I' m not sure about the advatange that it will be having more colorless mana in a color intensive deck like this.

-Leyline of the Void: I' m not sure if is wise to play a full set of this in a deck that has Force of Will as the only reactive protection. I used to play Leylines in my former TPS because I had 3x Spell Pierce in the Sideboard to SUpport the FoW's.

-Nature's Ruin/Persih: in the sideboard. In order to fight against Fish, GAT or even Oath builds.

-Slaughter Pact: so we can get rid of Iona if she names blue. I still feel this is cornercase.

-Emissary of Despair (4 of), Oath of Druids (with Tidespout Tyrant, for sinegy matters): just some more crazy ideas to defeat MUD.

And this are the cards I' m not sure:

-Cabal Ritual: it seems excellent, as it gives you mana in the color you may need, but it smells like a bad top deck and I guess if these will be redundant (in conjunction with Dark Ritual)

-Yawgmoth's Bargain: a bomb on its own, but the high mana cost and the fact taht is life dependant makes me doubt about it in a deck that also plays Fasbond and Necropotence.

-Moxes off-color: the same reasoning that I said for Sol Ring/..., they give colorless mana, which I' m not sure if it is what the deck needs.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[saradoc]

2 Weeks ago took place in Madrid the Eternal Weekend, around 150 players. Inazio Madariaga made top 8 with the following list:

4 Dark Ritual
1 Doomsday
1 Necropotence
1 Regrowth
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
4 Force of Will
1 Time Walk
1 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Preordain
2 See Beyond
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island

I played the same list, but Inazio had oath plan sideboard. We did not play bargain or off-color moxes, cabal ritual is also out. Timetwister was tested, but did not have great sinergy with gush. The gameplan with this version is very simple, just play gush, some cantrips, 1 or 2 rituals and cast tendrills. Maybe a second doomsday is needed, on this deck it is awsome. Necro is a great card, but not as great as in regular TPS builds, we are considering taking it out. Gush + See beyond is an obvious play that lets you dig 4 cards and getting away an extra land.

[minusblindfold]

Have you guys tried this list with lotus cobras? The cobras are absolutely bonkers.

Beaver and I both top8d with the following list at the last Blue Bell event

   Land: 15
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Library of ALexandria
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island


   Artifacts: 7
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby


   Instants: 18
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
4 Gush
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Vampiric Tutor

   Sorceries: 11
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will


   Creatures: 4
4 Lotus Cobra

   Enchantments: 2
1 Fastbond
1 Necropotence

   Planeswalkers: 3
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor

[Stormanimagus]

Have you guys tried this list with lotus cobras? The cobras are absolutely bonkers.

Beaver and I both top8d with the following list at the last Blue Bell event

   Land: 15
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Library of ALexandria
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island


   Artifacts: 7
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby


   Instants: 18
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
4 Gush
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Vampiric Tutor

   Sorceries: 11
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will


   Creatures: 4
4 Lotus Cobra

   Enchantments: 2
1 Fastbond
1 Necropotence

   Planeswalkers: 3
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor

how is this deck better than the drain version? It seems to me like this deck is very VERY dependent on Jace in order to have consistency. I think Drain variants of Gush-Storm would pound this deck into a bloody pulp and I think those drain versions have a fine game vs. MUD as well. This deck may, admittedly, have better game vs. MUD and Fish than the Drain variants, but I think the Drain variants are fine in those match-ups post SB. Ingot chewer is a house and usually gets there vs. MUD when followed up with a Tinker--> Battlesphere or some-such shenanigans. I'm sorry, this deck seems kinda like weak sauce to me atm.

-Storm

[saradoc]

This built with cobras and jaces is totally different from TTS. You are playing jace, which is a great control card, but with it you are playing for a mid-long game. The same for LoA. Cobras aren´t needed here, they generate tons of mana, but you are not using them for anything. That list is a mix of explosive cards and mid-late game cards, I do not think that is the way TTS should take.

Also drawing cobras should be very frustating if you are trying to get spells and win. GATs mayor problem is that quirion dryad is a bad card that you do not want to draw. Cobra and dryad have the same problem, if they are not in your opening hand they are absolute junk.

[minusblindfold]

how is this deck better than the drain version?...
It seems to me like this deck is very VERY dependent on Jace in order to have consistency.

I think Jace is important in these matchups. Resolved Jace usually means I win. However, it also has everything the above decks
have. So... becuase it has Jace and can use it to win, it is too reliant on Jace? I'm sorry but I don't see a problem with a deck
having win conditions.

I think Drain variants of Gush-Storm would pound this deck into a bloody pulp. This deck may, admittedly, have better game vs. MUD and Fish than the Drain variants.

So maybe it has a bad matchup (which has yet to be proven) at the cost of having a better matchup in other games.
Isn't this game about matchups? Maybe mud/fish is more prevalent in our area.

I think the Drain variants are fine in those match-ups post SB.

So "your" deck is better post board? What stops me from running these cards too? Oh yeah I don't need to becuase as you said it "This deck may, admittedly, have better game". Ut oh this clears up some room in the board to beat drain decks, which I don't need becuase my deck is "very VERY dependent on Jace" a card that excels in this matchup.


weaksauce, alright....

This built with cobras and jaces is totally different from TTS. You are playing jace, which is a great control card, but with it you are playing for a mid-long game. The same for LoA.

I think its good in the deck.  Maybe well call it something different. How about TJS (The Jace Storm)
The thought with library was that we could sneak in an extra draw here or there with gush putting 4 cards in hand.
It's also sweet with necro. I think we were just planning on using library in a different way.

The same goes for Jace really. Sometimes I just beleive the next 6-10% of my deck will win the game.

You don't have to sit on your hands. Who is the beatdown here anyway?

Cobras aren´t needed here, they generate tons of mana, but you are not using them for anything.

I used them to cast stuff vs shops and attack for 2.

Also drawing cobras should be very frustating if you are trying to get spells and win.

I agree. It sucks to draw dead rituals too. On the other hand its cool to just throw them on top with Jace
fetch em away and genetate 3 mana while im at it.

[Ego_Sum]

I think that the only point is nota that the deck is better or worse, but as you said, just a different archetype, developing, sometimes, a similar strategy but with a different game-plan (I wish it' s clear enoguh :-S).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Stormanimagus]

@minusblindfold

I guess I'll have to test the Jace Ritual deck before making final judgements, but I don't really see how it's even fast than the drain list. There are just too many mana cards and not enough bombs in my mind. Jace really needs to resolve for the deck to have any sort of consistency and I feel that "mirror" matches where someone is on Gush-Bond but plays more disruption and more bombs you will hardly ever resolve him. You will most likely be plowed under by disruption and mana drains.

Basically here's why I think this deck is inferior to Drain GT10 Battlesphere.dec

Percentages break-down:

Jace-Storm
vs. MUD -- Good
vs. Fish -- Good
vs. TPS -- Poor
vs. Drain-Gush -- Poor
vs. Dredge -- Poor/Fair
vs. Bob Tendrils -- Poor

GT10 Battlesphere.dec:
vs. MUD -- Fair
vs. Fish -- Fair/Good
vs. TPS -- Good
vs. Mirror -- Fair
vs. Jace Storm -- Good
vs. Dredge -- Good
vs. Bob Tendrils -- Good

Perhaps the statistics won't actually end up supporting this hypothesis, but, if they do, you can see that GT10 is probably better overall right now unless MUD makes up more than 60% of the field or something like that.

-Storm

[minusblindfold]

vs. Dredge -- Good               vs. Dredge -- Poor/Fair

heh... How do you come to this conclusion?


Also as that stands its 3 to 2 and you have listed a bunch of decks that are similar as good match ups for gt10. For example TPS and bob tendrils.
What if we list a whole bunch of stax variants?

[saradoc]

What I think is that you are including jace and cobra in any deck. These cards are not made for ritual combo, they work perfect in other decks, but playing them here is ridiculous. You are not taking their full power, because of the cards you play with them. Is like playing a zoo creature base with fact or fiction and the full moxen.

A hand with 2 rituals, a jace and a cobra can be an example of what I mean. This is an instant mulligan you have ate least 2 dead cards no matter where your line of play goes. If you play with the cobra and jace gameplan, you have 2 dead rituals in your hand. If you play with the explosiveness of the rituals, jace and cobra have nothing to do there.

A deck cannot be created just by having all the good cards, they should work together, should have sinergy.

[ArtOvWar]

It puzzles me that nobody has started a thread in this forum with a deck like this afther the latter Gush Unrestriction. This is why I decided to post my idea so we can discuss about it. I know we miss Brainstorm, Ponder and even Merchant Scroll, but even without those pieces the decks seems pretty solid.

NOTE: I call it TPTS, because we already have TPS amd TTS (which was the former list with full set of Brainstorms and Ponders).

"The Perfect Tropical Storm"

Maindeck 60

4x Force of Will
4x Duress

4x Gush
4x Preordain
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Demonic tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal

1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Necropotence
1x Doomsday
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
1x Timetwister

1x Hurkyl' s Recall
1x Chain of Vapor

4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Fastbond

2x Tendrils of Agony

1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Lotus Petal
1x Black Lotus

2x Island
1x Tropical Island
4x Undeground Sea
2x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard 15

1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Xantid Swarm
3x Nature’s Claim
1x Hurkyl’s Recall
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ravenous Trap
2x nihil Spellbomb
2x Yixlid Jailer

I just hope that this decklist is a joke...  No Back up plan. The mirror WILL destroy you. Duress ur 10rails. Pate on it? GG? Pate on gush. What draw engine? We all know that there's one storm deck to beat and thats TPS. Not janky versions with gushes etc in em. Ur wasting slots for speed. This list isnt working. No back up kill. U need Fastbond to go apenuts with gush. Spheres wave their midfinger infront of you.  Doomsday? Sureeee. Try to go lethal with it in a MUD Meta. COTV @ 1. Bye Bye draw spells. If theres a sphere next to it Gush wont work. Vs Control... If they counter ur drawspell ur DOOMed.


@ CobraGush list.

Forget it. We tested it here. Real storm kills you. MUD kills you. Control is win-able if you can chain gushes etc. Sui destroys ur hand and again if ur lucky.

What I think is that you are including jace and cobra in any deck. These cards are not made for ritual combo, they work perfect in other decks, but playing them here is ridiculous. You are not taking their full power, because of the cards you play with them. Is like playing a zoo creature base with fact or fiction and the full moxen.

A hand with 2 rituals, a jace and a cobra can be an example of what I mean. This is an instant mulligan you have ate least 2 dead cards no matter where your line of play goes. If you play with the cobra and jace gameplan, you have 2 dead rituals in your hand. If you play with the explosiveness of the rituals, jace and cobra have nothing to do there.

A deck cannot be created just by having all the good cards, they should work together, should have sinergy.

QFT

[Ego_Sum]

As I see you dislike the list, though your arguments are just too empty. We all know how good is TPS, in some enviroments, and we all know that this list, and even TPS or any other storm combo oriented deck, will suffer the rage of MUD badly. This doesn' t mean the list doesn't work. Back up plan? Are you talking about a tinker + robot plan? Tinker + Bot is too bad in certain metagames, I mean in a field with lots of control, combo or combo/control decks tinker bot sucks, and if played it should be in the sideboard in such situation. Nevertheless your opinion is as good as anyone's else, but I can asure you it is not the universal truth, and this is what it seems that you think by the way you explain it.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

P.S. politeness is always appreciatted.

[Phele]

P.S. politeness is always appreciatted.

QFT

This thread is filled up with harsh opinions how certain builds have to look like. I would say this thread is about creating a competetive Gush-Storm list and everone should be open to any suggestions. Why not think about Lotus Cobra for example? Like Ritual its a mana enabler that could certainly fit into a deck which is created around a land based draw engine. Compared to Ritual its worse in that sense, that it just functions in combination with other cards (lands) and costs one mana more. On the other side, it beats and so reduces the needed storm copies, sticks around for more extra mana and doesent care about the common Spell Pierces. I haven't tested it in a storm deck, but I see enough points to be open minded for its inclusion.

[ArtOvWar]

As I see you dislike the list, though your arguments are just too empty. We all know how good is TPS, in some enviroments, and we all know that this list, and even TPS or any other storm combo oriented deck, will suffer the rage of MUD badly. This doesn' t mean the list doesn't work. Back up plan? Are you talking about a tinker + robot plan? Tinker + Bot is too bad in certain metagames, I mean in a field with lots of control, combo or combo/control decks tinker bot sucks, and if played it should be in the sideboard in such situation. Nevertheless your opinion is as good as anyone's else, but I can asure you it is not the universal truth, and this is what it seems that you think by the way you explain it.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

P.S. politeness is always appreciatted.

Me and a mate have tested MUD/Staxx vs TPS alot. We can both tell you that TPS is the only storm deck that can handle shops. If the player knows what hes doing. I've tested TPS with 2 10rails for a while with that mate. The Tinker-Inkwell package is way beter along with 1 10rails. It is un-JaceTMS-able. It can chump all day long vs shops if needed.  Cobra tps is dead vs shops. GWSx doesnt do shizz vs shops. CotV @ 1 will eat this deck ALIVE. So does CotV @ 2. U dont run Rebuild mainboard. You run 2 Islands.  U will never hit blue to keep bouncing. 4 seas? Ur kidding right. MotM or a blood moon will tear that mana base to shreds. Shop decks ruin ur mana base 24/7, Fish and Sui do the same. TPS is the only storm deck with a good mana base. Specialy after SBing. They board in +2 basics that are on color.
Nature's claim aint gonna save you vs Shops. CotV @ 1 will ruin that aswell. Ur better of with running seal of prim or trygons in that spot. Unless you only play them vs oath where you dont even need them.  Nihil spellbomb? Why? id suggest that you run 4 Jailers.

This thread is filled up with harsh opinions how certain builds have to look like. I would say this thread is about creating a competetive Gush-Storm list and everone should be open to any suggestions. Why not think about Lotus Cobra for example? Like Ritual its a mana enabler that could certainly fit into a deck which is created around a land based draw engine. Compared to Ritual its worse in that sense, that it just functions in combination with other cards (lands) and costs one mana more. On the other side, it beats and so reduces the needed storm copies, sticks around for more extra mana and doesent care about the common Spell Pierces. I haven't tested it in a storm deck, but I see enough points to be open minded for its inclusion.

Lotus cobra is only good when you play it with moxen turn 1 or 2. We tested Cobra TPS here. FoW ur cobra. Oh there goes ur mana. Turn 1 sphere vs Cobra TPS will ruin ur day.  The mana accel of it is bonkers. but running rituals+cobra is also to much. Ur cutting important slots for jank that dont do shizz in todays meta.

[Stormanimagus]

@ArtOvWar -- Dude, you are wrong on a couple key points:

1. Tinker--> Inkwell is NOT the best plan vs. Shops and perhaps not against the field. Ever heard of a little card called Tangle Wire? Smokestack? both those cards have a way of laughing at one huge, dumb dude. There's a new piece of tech out there called Myr Battlesphere. I think it is far superior to other options at the moment.

2. TPS only beats Espresso Stax better than Gush-Storm could and I'm not even convinced of that. You see, many GOOD MUD lists run Null Rod. TPS runs FULL accelerators in the form of Moxen, + Sol Ring, + Crypt, + Vault + Jar and sometimes even + 1 Top. You do the math. Gush-Storm is a totally different animal than it was 3 years ago because it does not have access to unrestricted Scroll or Brainstorm so the skimping on mana is less and the playstyle is less aggressive. I am convinced that Gush-Storm is a better version of Storm than TPS atm despite TPS's wealth of basic lands because Gush-Storm often has the RIGHT answers for the RIGHT situations. Trust me, 2-3 basic lands is fine vs. MUD. If you are forced to go for more than that to "wait it out until you can cast hurkyl's" well then. . . you lost already and the extra basics would not have mattered. Trust me, I'm not sure who you are, but I have extensive experience piloting Storm and I especially piloting it vs. Shops so I know EXACTLY what the Storm pilot must be able to do to win. There are always the nut hands that MUD will draw on the play that are unbeatable, but I am referring to those games that are close where leveraging the proper advantages = game win and poor deck design = game loss. IMO TPS isn't the best deck design to foil modern MUD.

-Storm

[ArtOvWar]

@ArtOvWar -- Dude, you are wrong on a couple key points:

1. Tinker--> Inkwell is NOT the best plan vs. Shops and perhaps not against the field. Ever heard of a little card called Tangle Wire? Smokestack? both those cards have a way of laughing at one huge, dumb dude. There's a new piece of tech out there called Myr Battlesphere. I think it is far superior to other options at the moment.

2. TPS only beats Espresso Stax better than Gush-Storm could and I'm not even convinced of that. You see, many GOOD MUD lists run Null Rod. TPS runs FULL accelerators in the form of Moxen, + Sol Ring, + Crypt, + Vault + Jar and sometimes even + 1 Top. You do the math. Gush-Storm is a totally different animal than it was 3 years ago because it does not have access to unrestricted Scroll or Brainstorm so the skimping on mana is less and the playstyle is less aggressive. I am convinced that Gush-Storm is a better version of Storm than TPS atm despite TPS's wealth of basic lands because Gush-Storm often has the RIGHT answers for the RIGHT situations. Trust me, 2-3 basic lands is fine vs. MUD. If you are forced to go for more than that to "wait it out until you can cast hurkyl's" well then. . . you lost already and the extra basics would not have mattered. Trust me, I'm not sure who you are, but I have extensive experience piloting Storm and I especially piloting it vs. Shops so I know EXACTLY what the Storm pilot must be able to do to win. There are always the nut hands that MUD will draw on the play that are unbeatable, but I am referring to those games that are close where leveraging the proper advantages = game win and poor deck design = game loss. IMO TPS isn't the best deck design to foil modern MUD.

-Storm

Who i am? I'm a dutchy that played 4 years tps in my testing group. So i know what im talking about. Wires and Staxx dont see that much play here. Cause they all run aggromud with 10 beatsticks. Some play wires and some play null rods.  Null rod = worthless vs storm. How cute... Cuting of Moxen. SDT is bad in storm imo. Jar never see's game 2. Game 2 you board out 2 moxen for 2 basics. So u still got the same amount of mana. And Jar etc for more hate vs shops. You never played TPS in Europe i bet. U wont make it with just 2-3 basics here. Oh btw. Weren't you the one that asked Marske for tips how to play TPS. I know him IRL. I made t4 with his TPS list. So dont tell me that you know how to pilot it cause you asked for alot of tips. Wich i didnt. I just picked up the latest list he brewed without checking it. And played it like a real man should. No tips needed.

[Doomsday]

All cock-measuring aside, have you guys tested Owen's list from his Channel-Fireball article?

Creatures - 1
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Artifacts - 7
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Memory Jar

Enchantments - 2
1 Fastbond
1 Necropotence

Instants - 18
4 Force of Will
4 Gush
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor

Sorceries - 18
4 Preordain
4 Duress
2 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder

Land - 14
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand

[Commandant]

Could someone please explain to me, (preferably in properly formatted English with logic rather than baseless opinion and shit talking), why one would choose to run a Gush based Storm list in the current environment over Dark Confidant Tendrils?

The most recent large tournament in the Northeast (Traviscon) had 16 of 31 players running Shops. I’m unsure if the Shop to Format ratio is an artifactual difference due to low turnout, nonetheless I fail understand why one would run a Gush based engine in this environment. For my own curiosity can someone please provide some reasoning on why this would/would not be viable.

From testing I have done with the Gush Engine it has been far too inconsistent with the loss of Merchant scroll to reliably chain Gush into a lethal Tendrils. It was mentioned in this thread and I would like to try running See Beyond as filler between casting Gush in hopes of improving consistency.

I have yet to test the list from Blue Bell. Planeswalkers are not my favorite card type to run in Storm lists, however I do believe Lotus Cobra is a plus in a Shop dominated metagame; they work quite well at nullifying sphere effects and drop required Storm count via attack step – something I have always enjoyed with Dark Confidant.

Tinker Robot is outdated technology; I’ve been running Darksteel Colossus in my board to help race the mirror and Dredge. If I were to run a Tinker target main deck I believe Myr Battlesphere is the correct call based on its anti synergy with Shop lock components.

[Doomsday]

Well we do have Preordain as an added cantrip which digs just as deep as See Beyond.  Fastbond is a card that I'm happy see vs shops.  Gush draws cards, generates mana and Stifles Wastelands.

[Commandant]

Well we do have Preordain as an added cantrip which digs just as deep as See Beyond.  Fastbond is a card that I'm happy see vs shops.  Gush draws cards, generates mana and Stifles Wastelands.

Preordain has been pretty lack luster for me.

Fastbond is cute vs. Shops - they can remove it now thanks to Rachet Bomb, even then it's still a restricted card that doesn't do much to improve the match up - what % of matches are won by being able to cast Hurkyl's due to dumping lands into play with Fastbond?

Stifiling a Wasteland to be -2 lands vs Shops seems pretty week to me.

Dark Confidant also draws cards and has the added benefit of attack step and tapping to Tangle Wire.

Any real reasons to play Gush in Shopgeddon10?

[Stormanimagus]

I'm curious to know what sort of luck players have been having with the Ritual + Cobra Version of this deck. Does The Cobra->Jace version actually benefit from 3X Rituals? Could it be, god forbid, 2X Rituals instead?

Here's a list I'm thinking about trying based off a theoretical list I saw posted a while back:

Cobra-Storm

Land (14):
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island

Artifacts (6):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures (4):
4 Lotus Cobra

Planeswalkers (3):
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Instants (17):
4 Force Of Will
4 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Dark Ritual

Sorceries (14):
4 Thoughtseize
3 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Enchantments (2):
1 Fastbond
1 Necropotence

Sideboard
3 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Forest
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Doom Blade
1 Tinker
1 Myr Battlesphere

[Metman]

When Gush was first unrestricted my thought was to recreate TTS as close as possible.  Testing proved that there are plenty of capable replacements to the restricted Ponder, Merchant Scroll, and Brainstorm.  Many of the replacements have already been mentioned on this thread in Preordain, Duress/Thoughtseize or Spell Peirce, and Jace the Mind Sculptor.  I think the deck isn't quite what it was once but is relatively close.  

As you may remember Snake City Vault had recently showed awesome results just before the unrestriction proving resilient to Sphere effects so I decided to put Lotus Cobra in TTS and found it to be way too redundant.  I was getting in situations where I had way too many accelerators and not enough bombs for them to fuel.  My conclusion was that Rituals and Cobras together were too much.  I, therefore, tested what Lotus Cobra was capable of doing in place of Dark Ritual and found that with a couple of other small tweaks within the deck they were functionally the same.

To concluded my analysis of TPTS is that whichever your direction, be it Dark Ritual or Lotus Cobra, is sufficiently fine but that they conflict with each other yet accomplish the same goal.  I prefer the Cobra's personally because of it being a permanent, and beat stick, and frankly unaffected by Spheres.    

[rologa]

To concluded my analysis of TPTS is that whichever your direction, be it Dark Ritual or Lotus Cobra, is sufficiently fine but that they conflict with each other yet accomplish the same goal.  I prefer the Cobra's personally because of it being a permanent, and beat stick, and frankly unaffected by Spheres.    

I have arrived to same conclusion, you need to choose between Rituals and Cobras, both in the same deck is too redundant. I also prefer Cobras, it's not a one shoot boost of mana like ritual, it's something from where you can extract mana lots of times, very synergistic with Gush including when you don't have fastbond and need extra mana because your lands are in hand. It's also a permanent and a creature that can make extra damage or stop a enemy creature when needed. It's ability helps a lot to skip spheres or spell pierces and the fact that you can choose the color of the mana help you to cast spells with color intensive cast.
A card that has a lot of synergy with this kind of deck is Grim Tutor. It is very easy to  cast with Cobras, find Fastbond very quickly and is no card disadvantaged like when casted with ritual.
Currently I am testing a deck of this kind that I think  has lot of power and could be a contender if refined a little:

Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalnding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
2 Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea

Fast Mana
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Fastbond
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

Protection
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor

Business
4 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Timetwister
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Jace the Mindsculptor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demoinc Tutor
2 Grim Tutor

Finisher
1 Tendrils of Agony

It is a very fast deck, very aggressive and that can explode from nowhere. Plays like first turn Cobra, second turn Fetch, Grim Tutor, Fastbond, Gush,  Jace or other Bomb is not so difficult to find.

[Soapbot]

from my testing of the "tropical storm" I think it is very powerful, but MUD is a hard matchup if you don't get your pieces fast enough.
The deck has really explosive opening hands however, which makes me like the build. Here is what I've been fiddling around with, my mana base
doesn't seem to "flow" however so if anyone could help me on that part, I'd appreciate it.
- I like dark ritual instead of Cobra since you can play it again with yawgmoth's will, to up storm
- Preordain is wack.....but its the best we have so far : (
- Duress is no good against Workshop, they keep forcing the hand, spell pierce is awesome against them though
- I like thoughtseize, but with necro, fetches, fow, fastbond, & bargain.....

Here is my list

Accel

1 Black lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox pearl
1 Mox sapphire
1 Mox emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol ring
1 lotus petal

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Gush
3 Preordain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce

4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Tendrils of agony
4 Duress

1 Fastbond

BOMBS

Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will
Necropotence
Jace, The Mind Sculptor


Mana Base

3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
3 underground sea
2 Volcanic island
2 tropical Island
1 swamp


Side

4 Ingot Chewer
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Empty the Warrens
4 leyline of the void
2 yixlid Jailer
1 Lightning Bolt



I'm Testing a Red sideboard) it has Ingot, which gets around a chalice @ 1 and thorn,
and can trade with a lodestone golem,
Empty the Warrens to race, or if they have Leyline of Sanctity or Meddling Mage on Tendrils.
R.E.B.....well it's just good. Lightning bolt for jace, and Dredge hate.


I'm trying to figure out a way to "Win now" wheter its Doomsday, Vault+Key, or oath maybe.

also does gifts or fact or Fiction have a place in this deck?

[Ego_Sum]

Hey guys. What do you think about Lim-dul's vault for this deck, It works as a card disadvantage merchatn scroll if needed to chain gushes or just as a tutor for fastbond, tendrils or whichever piece we need for the win, with all the cantrips this deck plays it may be a nice card, also being instant makes it a great eot tutor to find fastbond.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Ego_Sum]

I know this thread is a little dead but I have just retaken my Tropical storm shell and retuned it, so I' d like to know your impressions and comments about eh sideboard specially. I would post the entire deck list because otherwise the sideboard will have no sense at all.


Maindeck 60

1x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest

1x Mana Crypt
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald

4x Dark Ritual

4x Force of Will
4x Duress

4x Gush
4x Preordain
2x See Beyond
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll

1x Yawgmoth Will
1x Doomsday
1x Necroptoence
1x Timetwister
1x Time Walk

1x Chain of Vapor
1x Hurkyl's Recall

1x Fastbond
1x Regrowth

2x Tendrils of Agony

And now the important part the sideboards

1st - Sideboard 15

4x Leyline of the Void
3x Dispel
3x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Massacre
1x Pithing Needle
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Island
1x Swamp

2nd Sideboard 15

3x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Dispel
3x Nature's Claim
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Massacre
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Island
1x Forest

If I play the second sideboard the main will suffer the following mana base changes:

-2x Polluted Delta
-1x Island

+2x misty Rainforest
+1x Tropical Island

The second side has the nature's claim to fight MUD, though I ' ve not tested it, and I' m not sure it will work due to chalice being at 1 too often. I ' d like to know the impressions of players with experience with shells similars to this and know how doest this works on board, not only in theory (since it seems that in theory with the mass bouncers the 3 green sources and 3 nature's claim would be enough to fight MUD. I' ve chosen nature's claim over oxidize to fight remora's aswell as MUD, though I know the 4 life may hurt (it may also make me live longer in some matches).

I was also thinking to play 3x Trygon Predator instead of the nature's claim would it be a good idea in a deck like this.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[chingpaq]

Just wanna share.

I was able to take this to top 8 in a Sanctioned Vintage Tournament in Manila November of last year. There were over 30 players that participated in the event. In the 7 rounds of that tournament i got paired with MUD(2-1), Ichorid(2-0), MUD(2-1), Grindstone(1-1-1), Jace Tez(1-1-1), Ichorid(2-1) and T8 -MUD(1-2). The fellow that beat me in T8 won the whole thing.

1 Magister Sphinx*
1 Tinker
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce*
4 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Jace the Mindsculptor*
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Timetwister*
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
4 Gush

1 Fastbond

4 Dark Ritual
2 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Doomsday

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Island
4 Polluted delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand


SB

4 Oath of druids
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
3 Energy Flux

Looks like your regular TPTS but i made a lot of changes to the build. Instead of discard effects, i added my suite of Spell Pierces. It was there specifically for the Shops matchup. Normally a 1st turn resistor should be met by a FOW followed up by an on your turn Seize or Duress to net other spheres. I find it better to FOW the initial sphere then Pierce the succeeding sphere (which could be missed by your discard and the shops player happens to top deck another). Once that sphere is down, its downhill from there. I like my 2nd turn free from pesky +1ers

Another change i made is on the Tinker-bot plan. I insisted on using Magister Sphinx instead of using the usual Inkwell Leviathan or Sphinx of the Steel Wind. My plan is to fully utilize the down to 10 life effect that Magister provides and Tendrils the rest away. I had two chances to use this 5 spell combo to end games: Mana Crypt (1), Tinker (2) to Sphinx -10 life, Dark Ritual (3), Dark Ritual/Petal/Black Lotus (4) and Tendrils (5) for another -10 life. Plus that Magister bot works well with my Oath sideboard plan with Progenitus.

The workshop plan i used was either win fast or cheap counter the resistors in the 1st game and Oath the shops pilot in the succeeding games. When i transform to Oath i don't remove lands when i side in the Orchards (more permanents)
Thanks for looking

[Ego_Sum]

I' m not sure, it seems like your deck has a lack of support agaisnt everything that is not Mud (in the board) the Oath package is not terribly efficient aganinst fish if you don' t play pithing needle or more creature countermagic, and very few grave hate and nothing to enfore the mirror or combo contro match.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[chingpaq]

@Inaki: Thanks for the insight. Indeed yes and its glaring. No support for everything else. My gameplan for that particular tournament was to force my way through in game 1 using the additional counter magic i added and do it very quickly. Game 2 calls for that Oath gamble (which nobody in that tournament expected... in fact nobody expected any ritual-based having the guts to play one). And if that gamble fails, go back to plan A in game 3, which is to force my way again. Honestly its crudeand most probably would not do that SB stunt again the next time around. And if ever ill do that xform thing, ill go bold and go for Leyline of Anticipation for the Needles, Crypt, and another card.

[kalisia]

Hi Iñaki,
Your current list seems strong, and I like the two copies of See Beyond. With enough mana, it's another draw2, so another way to win after having cast Doomsday.
Concerning your question about Lim Dul's Vault, many people may have thought about this card, but the life loss seems to be a problem with Fastbond.