Marco
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« on: February 08, 2011, 06:41:59 pm » |
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***Keyword Ability: Augur***
Augur is a triggered ability that may let a player put a random card from his or her library into his or her hand.
Concussion Blast 1R Instant (Uncommon) Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Reveal a card at random from your library. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.) Concussion Blast deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
The official rules for augur are as follows:
702.XXa Augur is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with augur is on the stack. "Augur" means "When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Reveal a card at random from your library. If the card revealed this way shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library."
* On instant and sorcery cards, the augur ability is printed first; on permanent cards, the augur ability is printed last. Regardless of the card type, augur triggers when the spell is cast, not when it resolves (that is, before the permanent would enter the battlefield).
* Here's the timing for augur: 1) You cast a spell with augur. 2) The augur ability triggers and goes on the stack on top of the original spell. You choose a card type. 3) The augur ability resolves. Reveal a card at random from your library. If you reveal a card that shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. 4) The original spell resolves.
* Countering the original spell doesn't counter the augur ability.
* Since augur is a triggered ability, anything that interacts with a triggered ability (such as Stifle) will interact with augur.
Current Wording:
***Keyword Ability: Augur***
Augur is a triggered ability that may let a player put a random card from his or her library into his or her hand.
Concussion Blast 1R Instant (Uncommon) Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.) Concussion Blast deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
The official rules for augur are as follows:
702.XX. Augur
702.XXa Augur is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with augur is on the stack. "Augur" means "When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If the card revealed this way shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library."
* On instant and sorcery cards, the augur ability is printed first; on permanent cards, the augur ability is printed last. Regardless of the card type, augur triggers when the spell is cast, not when it resolves (that is, before the permanent would enter the battlefield).
* Here's the timing for augur: 1) You cast a spell with augur. 2) The augur ability triggers and goes on the stack on top of the original spell. You choose a card type. 3) The augur ability resolves. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If you reveal a card that shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library. 4) The original spell resolves.
* Countering the original spell doesn't counter the augur ability.
* Since augur is a triggered ability, anything that interacts with a triggered ability (such as Stifle) will interact with augur.
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« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 02:36:56 pm by Marco »
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Eric Dupuis
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 10:07:42 pm » |
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In order to reveal a random card, one would have to shuffle first. What purpose does shuffling the library after putting the revealed card into your hand serve? The library would still be random. Why not shuffle and reveal the top card?
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Marco
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 10:45:18 pm » |
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I did ponder how one would reveal a card at random from his or her library. Probably just have an opponent cut into a card. Like having your opponent choose a card from your hand when his Hypnotic Specter deals combat damage to you... I don't know that one would "have to shuffle first" to reveal a card at random from their library.
I didn't initially have the shuffle afterwards either. It was suggested that if you don't reveal a card that shares a type with the chosen card type, you have to put the revealed card back exactly where you found it, "which could also be easy to cheatyface if your opponent isn't paying close attention."
Shuffling afterwards minimizes looking at extra cards tournament violations or other cheats.
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Tempus
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 03:36:00 am » |
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In order to reveal a random card, one would have to shuffle first. What purpose does shuffling the library after putting the revealed card into your hand serve? The library would still be random. Why not shuffle and reveal the top card?
Without library manipulation (Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Top, etc.) you can just reveal the top card, as your library should be randomized. But shuffling it afterwards doesn't make sense in that case either...
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Eric Dupuis
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 10:14:56 am » |
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I get what you're going for flavorwise. In the reality of how the game is played, it just doesn't work. People often know cards position in their library. Between effects like JMS, Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Topdeck Tutors, Sylvan Library, Submerge, Oust, Condemn, Scroll Rack, Flash of Insight, and a ton of other cards, there's no way to ensure that cutting will produce a random card.
As far as a random card from hand with Specter, you do shuffle your hand around. It's definitely not a card of your choosing from their hand. People have tendencies, such as putting all the lands on one side of their hand, and that does not enter into creating a random discard. In a tournament, you either shuffle and they pick it, or more appropriately, a die is used to determine the card.
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Marco
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 12:19:00 pm » |
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I don't see anyone cutting into the top three cards (or the bottom card), more like approximately half way through the library. Most if not all of those cards you mentioned, with the exception of Scroll Rack, only affect the top three cards or the bottom card of your library.
This keyword ability was created for a Mechanic Creator Contest with the challenge "design a mechanic that contains a word random!" (Cascade is currently the only printed mechanic with the word random.)
I started off with many variations, including one where you revealed a card at random from your hand (like Cursed Scroll).
It doesn't use the word random, but if I pursue this mechanic for the new tribal set I'm working on, I suppose I could change it to this:
Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.)
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Delha
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 12:41:47 pm » |
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Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.) This version sounds like a much cleaner mechanic to me.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
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Marco
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 02:40:45 pm » |
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Updated original post with current wording. Here are some other sample cards:
Battlefield Teleportation 2W Tribal Instant – Kithkin (Common) Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.) Exile target creature. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
Merrow Sage 2U Creature – Merfolk Wizard (Common) 1/1 T: Draw a card, then shuffle a card from your hand into your library. Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.)
Shock Therapy 1B Sorcery (Uncommon) Augur (When you cast this spell, choose a card type. Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card. If it shares a type with the chosen card type, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it on the bottom of your library.) Choose a card type other than land. Target player reveals his or her hand and you choose a card of that type from it. That player discards that card.
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Eric Dupuis
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2011, 03:45:50 pm » |
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Good change. The previous version would be great in a digital version of the game. In order to actually get a random card in real life, you'd be looking at counting the cards in the deck, then rolling to randomly determine the number of the card, then count down to it. That would be a mess. I don't see anyone cutting into the top three cards (or the bottom card), more like approximately half way through the library. Most if not all of those cards you mentioned, with the exception of Scroll Rack, only affect the top three cards or the bottom card of your library. Yes, that's a casual approach to viewing the cards. For instance, Flash of Insight usually stacks your entire deck when it's actually played in good decks. Another point is how this card would interact with a library of only 3 cards left. These things happen in real games, and loose design can create ugly situations. This all does lose the flavor of "augur" though. You're not really digging into the deck to see what you get. This is much more like what Clash could have been.
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Marco
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 03:48:23 pm » |
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What's your definition of augur? (I think you may be thinking of auger.)
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« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 03:50:57 pm by Marco »
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Wagner
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2011, 07:44:14 pm » |
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I don't see anyone cutting into the top three cards (or the bottom card), more like approximately half way through the library. Most if not all of those cards you mentioned, with the exception of Scroll Rack, only affect the top three cards or the bottom card of your library. That is still not random. If you know the top 3 cards are creatures because of Brainstorm, you know that there are 3 less creatures around the middle of your deck, so it might influence your choice.
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Marco
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 12:23:14 am » |
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Having more information to choose a card type, therefore increasing the chance of choosing the card type that will be revealed, doesn't make it not random (double negative?)
But it's a moot point, because I've changed it to "...Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card..."
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Wagner
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 09:27:17 am » |
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Having more information to choose a card type, therefore increasing the chance of choosing the card type that will be revealed, doesn't make it not random (double negative?)
But it's a moot point, because I've changed it to "...Shuffle your library, then reveal the top card..."
Well, yes, but a random card from your deck must be able to be in the top 3. You can't really say "A random card from your deck at about the half of it". The shuffle then reveal works very well though.
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Darkenslight
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2011, 05:12:14 am » |
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I think the keyword might be better served as changing to Prediction, given the change to the keyword's rules text. IT's something to consider, at lleast.
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Anusien
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2011, 09:47:17 pm » |
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Why shuffle at all? Why not reveal the top card of the library? I would hate to play a block heavy with this mechanic because there's all this shuffling to not really advance the gamestate. If you let them reveal the top card, then you can set it up and it will resonate better with players. Randomness is a Timmy mechanic, but the payoff here is not big enough to appeal to Timmies. For that matter, why is this better than just cantripping? I see the functional difference, but why is that difference important?
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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