Capp'n as a Cost

[MaximumCDawg]

I am interested in the concept of being Jester's Capped as an additional cost.  In Vintage, would a card like this be too powerful?

Ancestral Joke

Instant
Target opponent may search your library, choose up to three cards, and exile them.  Shuffle your library afterwards, then draw three cards.

Or how about a creature along those lines?

Balduvian Jesters

5/5
When this comes into play, target opponent may search your library, choose up to four cards, and exile them.  Shuffle your library afterwards.

[Delha]

In Vintage, the draw version is probably still broken, the creature probably isn't.

Both are unprintable due to Standard.

[Killane]

except that commander has now set a precedent for printing eternal only cards. You'd have to ban the draw one in legacy due to 4xburning wish (yes i know you can't wish back the removed cards) but i think they'd both be fine in vintage.

[MaximumCDawg]

How does burning wish interact with Ancestral Joke?  I don't get what the legacy concern is.

I don't think Joke is overpowered, except perhaps in Fish or Shops.  If you're running a controlish deck, then most or all of your wincons get nuked when you use it.  You want a deck with alot of redundancy, so that the three cards you lose are immaterial and the three cards you draw are gas.  I think I agree that Joke might be too stone cold nuts in an aggro deck like fish, though, since you will load up on countermagic or threats while they take some other creatures. 

So here's a question: how many cards would you have to exile as an additional cost to play Ancestral Recall before the card can be said to be balanced? Obviously "all of them" would not be a power level problem:

Ancestral Suicide
Target opponent may search your library and put three cards in your hand.  Exile the rest.

So where's the spot in between 4 and all that would make it balanced?  Note that, at 12 - 14, you're nuking every creature or counterspell in alot of decks.

[Delha]

Off the top of my head, without really sitting down and thinking about it... 8 sounds good to me.

[Ten-Ten]

Ancestral joke should be a sorcery and maybe a combination of fact or fiction/Jester's cap like effect:

Ancestral joke 

sorcery

Target opponent searches your library for up to cards, puts three of those cards in your hand and exiles the rest.
shuffle your library afterward.

[TheWhiteDragon]

That's just awful...I pay blue to let my opponent give me 3 of my worst lands or dead cards from my deck and exile 4 of my best cards?

[Ten-Ten]

...oops, it was supposed to say non-land.
either way, MaximumCDawg's version is wwaaayy better than that Visions of Beyond..

[A_Outcast]

...oops, it was supposed to say non-land.
either way, MaximumCDawg's version is wwaaayy better than that Visions of Beyond..

if it says nonland, then they can fail to find cards.

i dont understand what MaximumCDawg's version is suposed to do.