[Multiplayer] Child of Alara - 5cc

[Ufactor]

...If EDH equals Vintage Light, and Vintage Light can include Keeper, then EDH can include Keeper, right?

I started playing EDH about six months ago, and I <3 it.  My meta is a dozen or so players, some with multiple decks.  It can get very competitive, so most strategies tend to be jerk decks or anti-jerk decks.  We also use ten-card sideboards, mostly for optional wish rules.  Initially, I wanted to play old pet cards and stuff that hasn't been viable in type 1 since 1998, so I built 5cc.  And while I got lots of props and style points from my fellow gamers, I was winning very few games.  I constantly wanted the deck to be less reactive, to be able to close stalled games quickly and prevent early hate kills.

I now have an updated version with the inclusion of good creatures (though, considering control decks, that seems like an oxymoron), and Cabal Coffers.  I'm looking for other suggestions, while being able to retain as much flexibility as possible.


Child of Alara

1.   Blightsteel Colossus
2.   Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3.   Kozelik, Butcher of Truth
4.   Platinum Angel
5.   Teferi, Mage of Zalfir
6.   Tidespout Tyrant
7.   Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

8.   Counterspell
9.   Cryptic Command
10.   Dismiss
11.   Forbid
12.   Force of Will
13.   Mana Drain
14.   Miscalculation
15.   Misdirection
16.   Pyroblast
17.   Stifle

18.   Ancestral Tribute
19.   Banefire
20.   Brainstorm
21.   Chromatic Sphere
22.   Chromatic Star
23.   Cloud Key
24.   Compulsion
25.   Crucible of Worlds
26.   Cunning Wish
27.   Demonic Tutor
28.   Elixir of Immortality
29.   Future Sight
30.   Imperial Seal
31.   Impulse
32.   STRANGLEHOLD
33.   Lim-Dul’s Vault
34.   Memory Jar
35.   Mind Twist
36.   Mindslaver
37.   Moat
38.   Mystical Tutor
39.   Pithing Needle
40.   Ponder
41.   Recall
42.   Regrowth
43.   Rhystic Study
44.   Scroll Rack
45.   Sensei’s Divining Top
46.   Skeletal Scrying
47.   Stroke of Genius
48.   Sylvan Library
49.   CONFISCATE
50.   ETCHED MONSTROSITY
51.   Time Spiral
52.   Time Stretch
53.   Timetwister
54.   Tormod’s Crypt
55.   Vindicate
56.   Vampiric Tutor
57.   Yawgmoth’s Will

58.   Academy Ruins
59.   Boseiju, Who Shelters All
60.   Cabal Coffers
61.   Dust Bowl
62.   Strip Mine
63.   Tolaria West
64.   Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
65.   Vesuvia
66.   Wasteland
67.   Arid Mesa
68.   Bad River
69.   Breeding Pool
70.   Bloodstained Mire
71.   City of Brass
72.   Flood Plains
73.   Flooded Strand
74.   Halimar Depths
75.   Hallowed Fountain
76.   Island
77.   Island
78.   Island
79.   Island
80.   Island
81.   Island
82.   Island
83.   Island
84.   Lonely Sandbar
85.   Marsh Flats
86.   Misty Rainforest
87.   Polluted Delta
88.   Scalded Tarn
89.   Steam Vents
90.   Tropical Island
91.   Tundra
92.   Underground Sea
93.   Undiscovered Paradise
94.   Verdant Catacombs
95.   Vivid Creek
96.   Volcanic Island
97.   Watery Grave
98.   Windswept Heath
99.   Wooded Foothills

SB: Brainfreeze
SB: Consume the Meek
SB: Enlightened Tutor
SB: Evacuation
SB: Fact or Fiction/ Gifts Ungiven/ Gush
SB: Mindbreak Trap
SB: Starstorm
SB: Swords to Plowshares
SB: Tsabo’s Decree
SB: Wipe Away/ Krosan Grip




???

Decree of Painal
The Abyss
Braingeyser
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Jester's Cap
Mystic Remora
Platinum Emperion
Spirit of Resistance
Steel Hellkite
Sun Titan
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Zuran Orb

EDIT: Karmic Justice
EDIT: Legacy Wepon
EDIT: Stormtide Leviathan

EDIT: Wurmcoil Engine
EDIT: Phantom Nishoba
EDIT: First to Stand
EDIT: Sphinx of the Steel Wind
EDIT: Windbrisk Raptor


Child of Alara is usually only cast once, on turn 5,6, or 7, as a way vault into the mid game with board position.

EDIT: I'm stubborn about Angel over Platinum Emperion.  Logically, I know that the golem is better because he preserves game state and doesn't screw you if he is removed at an inopportune moment, but Angel gets around weird things like poison.  Of course, if I could find room to run both, I would.

The basic ways of winning are Future Sight combo (note the Brainfreeze), Mindslaver recursion, and Moat + Dudes.

I'm avoiding alot of narrow combos (Grim Monolith, Mind Over Matter, Time Sieve, EDIT: also Hermit Druid).  I hate drawing Cloud Key early on and I imagine giving myself similar fits by including a bunch of other counterpart combination type cards.

[Ufactor]

EDIT: Zuran Orb was a vestigial inclusion from old decks that built for 1v1 or legal Fastbond.  It's been useless for the most part.

[Shax]

If your going to play Child of Alara, make sure you have the control cards or supped up win condition to get the job done. I think a ChildoA list with Hermit Druid combo is the best thing I know of so far, or a Child list that runs lots of EDH control cards.

[Ufactor]

Jesus Christ the King of Kings!

The mods haven't responded to this, so I will.

Whatever sheltered spit of backwoods you come from, you should Please realize that TMD is a global forum.  Maybe in Nebraska or West Virginia it's appropriate to throw your religious beliefs in other peoples faces, but not here.  There are many forums dedicated to promoting Christianity and religious expression.  This is a place to discuss Magic: the Gathering.

Furthermore, in the metropolitan northeast, as well as many places in Europe, in the interest of diversity and tolerance religion is kept as a personal matter.  It is considered rude to bring up religion in a secular setting and insensitive/inconsiderate to give unsolicited preaching.

This has nothing to do with my own beliefs; I am a very religious person.  I believe that practicing your faith is a wonderful thing, and safe places for religious expression should be unquestioningly preserved.  With that said, outside of those sacred places, religion exists as a highly personal link between the individual and his/her creator.  I hope that the mods will correct this, or that you will have the good form to take care of it beforehand.

I've retired from active moderation, so it takes a lot to get me to click the "modify" button and start typing red-text.  Congratulations, Ufactor, you did it.  

First and foremost, the mods got your reports about Shax's signature.  All of them.  They aren't here to enforce your personal notions of appropriate behavior.  They don't need you to make decisions about how to enforce TMD rules for them.  I haven't talked to the mods about this issue, but I'd wager that nothing was done until now because no site rules were broken.  We have no rules against obliquely religious statements in signatures.  If you find them offensive, please feel free not to look at them.

Second, I have to point out that lecturing someone on tolerance and diversity by telling them not to make innocuous statements about their religion smacks of hypocrisy.  If you're really so concerned about having an inclusive environment, by all means, do your utmost to provide an example for others to follow.  I suggest you start by not posting insulting, demeaning polemics against others.  Nothing about Shax's signature is in any way derogatory, exclusive, or intolerant of any other person or point of view.  Your post, on the other hand, attacked and ridiculed someone else because you didn't like what they had to say.  I really can't express my utter amazement that you're invoking hurtful stereotypes in the process of telling someone to stop expressing a viewpoint you don't like, and saying that it's all in service of diversity and tolerance. 

Finally, I'm happy to announce I can grant your wish and tell you that, as of now, the moderation staff is involved in this issue.  Consider yourself warned for flaming Shax.  I sincerely hope you'll take some time to think about how your actions betrayed every single principle you claimed to act on here, from the TMD Rules to basic civility.  -DA

...make sure you have the control cards or supped up win condition to get the job done.

Of course this is a control deck!  Hence the presence of counters, removal and card drawing.  While I don't want any inert or clunky combos, I would love to hear about more CONTROL cards that would suit this deck.

[policehq]

I find it odd that you're not playing anything like Fellwar Stone, Pentad Prism, Sol Ring, Diamonds, Birds of Paradise, etc. Mana acceleration seems especially important in order to stabilize.

Also, one of the best control things you can do is put their general on top of their library.

[Joblin Velder]

I think this is my new favorite thread. Anyway, on to advice.

Gifts is banned.

Mana acceleration is an important part of the format. You can easily get left behind by other explosive starts if you rely solely on land drops. Since you're running green, you have access to mana ramp that doesn't get nuked by Akroma's Vengeance or Planar Cleansing. If you don't like the idea of running a bunch of Cultivates and the like, at the very least run Mana Crypt and Sol Ring.

I feel that as a 5 color deck, skipping Thawing Glaciers may be a mistake. It fits in perfectly with the aims of your deck and ensures you get the specific colors you need.

I really think you should be running some number of board resets. As it stands, you don't have enough counters or spot removal to keep an entire table safe for you. I've found Decree of Pain at the very least an amazing solution that also furthers my game plan. I'd run one or two more in addition to that. Definitely Akroma's Vengeance. 8-for-1ing the table is awesome.

Etched Oracle could be amazing here. I always wish I could run it.

Condemn, Oblation, Hallowed Burial, and Spin into Myth all deserve consideration. They demolish any gameplan that revolves directly around a general. In fact, outside of soft resets, that's really why I love running white in EDH.

hope this helps!

[Joblin Velder]

Oh! Collective Restraint! That card makes me want a 5cc deck.

[Shax]

As much as I love to spread the love of Jesus Christ all over TheManaDrain's forums I just will keep it to a signature but I can talk in a PM anytime, likewise DA was right in don't look at the signature if you do not want to. I am more interested in talking about Magic:The Gathering, specifically of the Vintage format since I think it is the format of Kings for magic and there are highly skilled players in this Format.

For specific control cards I would suggest.

The H-Bomb
General (1)
1 Child of Alara

Recursion (4 + 2 in lands)
1 Corpse Dance
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fool's Demise
1 Genesis

Sac Engines (1 + 4 in lands)
1 Worthy Cause

Tutors (22)
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Buried Alive
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Expedition Map
1 Intuition
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Perplex
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scapeshift
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wargate
1 Weathered Wayfarer

Counters (11)
1 Arcane Denial
1 Dream Fracture
1 Forbid
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Hinder
1 Mystic Snake
1 Negate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Trickbind
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Voidslime

Draw (4)
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Life from the Loam
1 Pulse of the Grid
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Other (5)
1 Capsize
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Stonecloaker
1 Reiterate

Accelerants (6)
1 Cultivate
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Primal Growth
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Viridian Emissary

Lands (46)

Utility (10)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Diamond Valley
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Eye of Ugin
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolaria West
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Fixing (30)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Flood Plain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Krosan Verge
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Sungrass Prairie
1 Temple Garden
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

Basics (6)
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp


want to include and looking for room:
1 Primeval Titan
1 Reiterate
1 Archon of Justice
1 Mystic Snake
1 Knight of the Reliquary


This is obviously not my list, but it does have a few things I think should give you some ideas.

[Ufactor]

Oh! Collective Restraint! That card makes me want a 5cc deck.

That's funny.  I started this deck themed around Domain and Sunburst, then both mechanics slowly rotated out in favor of more powerful cards.  I tried Collective Restraint - it was always worse than Moat.

I think this is my new favorite thread. Anyway, on to advice.

Gifts is banned.

Mana acceleration is an important part of the format. You can easily get left behind by other explosive starts if you rely solely on land drops. Since you're running green, you have access to mana ramp that doesn't get nuked by Akroma's Vengeance or Planar Cleansing. If you don't like the idea of running a bunch of Cultivates and the like, at the very least run Mana Crypt and Sol Ring.

I feel that as a 5 color deck, skipping Thawing Glaciers may be a mistake. It fits in perfectly with the aims of your deck and ensures you get the specific colors you need.

I really think you should be running some number of board resets. As it stands, you don't have enough counters or spot removal to keep an entire table safe for you. I've found Decree of Pain at the very least an amazing solution that also furthers my game plan. I'd run one or two more in addition to that. Definitely Akroma's Vengeance. 8-for-1ing the table is awesome.

Etched Oracle could be amazing here. I always wish I could run it.

Condemn, Oblation, Hallowed Burial, and Spin into Myth all deserve consideration. They demolish any gameplan that revolves directly around a general. In fact, outside of soft resets, that's really why I love running white in EDH.

hope this helps!

There is an uncommonly-known loophole involving Gifts.  While it's generally understood that banned cards are banned, that is not exactly the case.  In a few places, it is taken that Gifts Ungiven is prohibited from being used in the maindeck, the sideboard however is fair territory.  You could similarly use Burning Wish to retrieve Balance, for example.  It's not a caveat that I agree with, but it's there.  I use FoF in the sideboard.  There is a reason why it's listed that way.


Decree of Pain is the best suggestion that I've gotten so far.  I'll start testing it immediately!!


Please consider the following questions.  I believe that they can guide the remainder of the tread in a constructive direction:

* Would switching generals (with other card choices following) make a better control deck?

* Would cutting colors (and deciding on a general later) make a better control deck?

* Is there an already-established "best control deck" for multi-EDH?

* Volrath's Stronghold not withstanding, does the one-time, anytime board wipe effect justify playing Child of Alara?

* Are there any cards for the off colors that would make a rainbow manabase more compelling?

* Are there any singular, obvious cards that I have failed to recognize in a control archtype?

[Joblin Velder]

This has inspired me to look at a 5CC deck of my own (using Cromat as a general because that dude is a class act). Here are some cards I've been excited about playing:

Mirari's Wake: I play it in several other decks and the mana boost this provides can end games. It also helps a lot with making sure you have enough mana of different colors (if you have a large color diversity).

Conflux: Its definitely a little Timmy, but when you resolve it, it feels AWESOME.

Magister Sphinx: While it makes you a bit of a target, it makes eliminating a problem opponent easy.

Pernicious Deed: So versatile, so cheap, so good.

Here are some other cards I left out the first time around:

Trinket Mage is silly in this format. So is Engineered Explosives. So is Sol Ring. All of these work awesome together and none are in your list.

Ancestral Visions and Deep Analysis are two of my favorite draw spells in this format. They seem better than Ponder and Impulse.

[Ufactor]

Wow, I pulled an Etched Monstrosity out of a box last night.  This card is just the right combination of dumb and powerful - the true spirit of EDH!

[serracollector]

Realms Uncharted.  Haven't seen it in any of the lists mentioned (unless Im blind), nor heard it mentioned.

With crucible of worlds (obv inclusion) you can grab tectonic edge, strip mine, wasteland, and dustbowl/ghost quarter, and um...win.

Or you can get maze of ith, urbog (all lands are swamp etc), cabal coffers, w/e.

Or if you need a specific color, you can grab 3 fetches and a land that makes that color etc.

Realms is a 3 mana gifts Ungiven in EDH.

[Ufactor]

Has anyone tested Jin-Gitaxis yet?  It seems like a very expensive way to get yourself killed.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Has anyone tested Jin-Gitaxis yet?  It seems like a very expensive way to get yourself killed.

Your'e definately doing it wrong.

[Ufactor]

Stranglehold looks ridiculous.  Proxying it is blah, but so is paying $30.00 for 98 bad cards

[Portalis]

how about Bringer of the Blue and Black Dawn? those 2 seem pretty nice espically in a 5 color deck

have you tried Fist of the Suns or Channel the Suns?

[Ufactor]

Tons of updates have been made.  I'm beginning to do serious testing.  More to come.




GENERAL: Child of Alara
 
1.   Blightsteel Colossus
2.   Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3.   Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
4.   Platinum Angel
5.   Sun Titan
6.   Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
7.   Tidespout Tyrant
8.   Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

9.   Counterspell
10.   Cryptic Command
11.   Dismiss
12.   Forbid
13.   Force of Will
14.   Mana Drain
15.   Miscalculation
16.   Misdirection
17.   Red Elemental Blast
18.   Stifle

19.   Akroma’s Vengeance
20.   Ancestral Tribute
21.   Brainstorm
22.   Chromatic Sphere
23.   Chromatic Star
24.   Cloud Key
25.   Compulsion
26.   Confiscate
27.   Crucible of Worlds
28.   Cunning Wish
29.   Demonic Tutor
30.   Future Sight
31.   Imperial Seal
32.   Impulse
33.   Legacy Weapon
34.   Lim-Dul’s Vault
35.   Memory Jar
36.   Mind Twist
37.   Mindslaver
38.   Moat
39.   Mystical Tutor
40.   Pithing Needle
41.   Ponder
42.   Recall
43.   Regrowth
44.   Rhystic Study
45.   Scroll Rack
46.   Sensei’s Divining Top
47.   Skeletal Scrying
48.   Stranglehold
49.   Stroke of Genius
50.   Sylvan Library
51.   The Abyss
52.   Time Spiral
53.   Time Stretch
54.   Timetwister
55.   Tormod’s Crypt
56.   Vampiric Tutor
57.   Yawgmoth’s Will

58.   Academy Ruins
59.   Boseiju, Who Shelters All
60.   Cabal Coffers
61.   Strip Mine
62.   Tolaria West
63.   Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
64.   Vesuva
65.   Wasteland
66.   Arid Mesa
67.   Bad River
68.   Breeding Pool
69.   Bloodstained Mire
70.   City of Brass
71.   Command Tower
72.   Flooded Strand
73.   Flood Plains
74.   Halimar Depths
75.   Hallowed Fountain
76.   Island
77.   Island
78.   Island
79.   Island
80.   Island
81.   Island
82.   Island
83.   Island
84.   Lonely Sandbar
85.   Marsh Flats
86.   Misty Rainforest
87.   Polluted Delta
88.   Scalding Tarn
89.   Steam Vents
90.   Tropical Island
91.   Tundra
92.   Underground Sea
93.   Undiscovered Paradise
94.   Verdant Catacombs
95.   Vivid Creek
96.   Volcanic Island
97.   Watery Grave
98.   Windswept Heath
99.   Wooded Foothills

SB: Brainfreeze
SB: Consume the Meek
SB: Enlightened Tutor
SB: Evacuation
SB: Fact of Fiction
SB: Mindbreak Trap
SB: Starstorm
SB: Swords to Plowshares
SB: Tsabo’s Decree
SB: Wipe Away

???

Banefire
Braingeyser
Dust Bowl
Elixir of Immortality
Etched Monstrosity
Iona Shield of Emeria
Karmic Justic
Voidstone Gargoyle
Tendo Ice Bridge
Maelstrom Angel

[Ufactor]

1. Testing Etched Monstrosity and Voidstone Gargoyle instead of Skeletal Scrying and Stroke of Genius.  I'm re-evaluating the concepts of card advantage and efficiency in terms of EDH.  Simply drawing a glut of cards can be the most innocuous thing you can do when there's no means to translate those extra cards into board position and game state ...besides that, when I really need extra cards, it is usually a good time to just tutor for Future Sight.

2. I would really love a basic Plains in here, but I have nothing that I would like to cut for it.

3. Stranglehold has been surprisingly janky.  There have been a lot of underpowered or over-aggro tables where I could've used something else :/

[Ufactor]

As a weird mental exercise I cut the deck down to 82 cards, and it worked perfectly ...makes me realize how much of the deck is just taking up space :/